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Ensign_Cthulhu

Random Thoughts from Deep R'lyeh: The Research Bureau

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Yesterday I finally unlocked my fifth Tier 10 tech-tree ship and gained access to the RB.

Well, actually I unlocked my SIXTH, because I managed to get to the Moskva and have her in port before she became a coal ship. IMHO those who did so should have been credited for it, but that's a side issue.

This being done, I was presented with 10,000 RB points and access to the bureau. And I looked at the tech tree and thought to myself, having just finished the grind to Daring, that the LAST thing I wanted to do was go through that all over again.

 

I can well understand why some people decide that the RB is NOT for them, and I think that's quite fine. 

 

But just for a moment, let me put on my masochist's hat and take a look at it from another perspective. (I can almost hear @KilljoyCutter screaming at me to turn back before it's too late, but here I go.)

Spoiler

 

I mean, it's actually not that much work. If you play to the third crate every night (37,000 ship XP), you're pulling down 1.11 million XP a month - and even in February you're still breaking a million. That's one ship line every month. 

IF.

And I stress IF.

You have the wherewithal to stick at that one ship line to the third crate every day and do nothing else. 

The research bureau gives one double-points reset every three months, which means that in that cycle you can earn 40,000 RB points (three resets at 10,000 each for two and 20,000 for the double). It takes no more than 67,000 RB points to earn any single item in there (Slava), while some are even less.

OKAY, THAT IS THE MEGA GRIND. WHAT ABOUT SOMETHING SLOWER?

Let's say you don't want to spend all your energy every night on grinding one ship line to the exclusion of all else. Plus you probably need to play other ships to do directives and other cool stuff. So... 

Let's work on one reset per season. Given the 10K you get as a starting bonus, that's three seasons or nine months to get the most expensive ship in the RB.

That's 1 million XP in three months, or 90 days average, or 11,112 XP per day rounding up. That's your line research ship every day to the SECOND crate (not that difficult), then do whatever you want for the rest of the day's play. I could see this as a possibility.


 

Right now, though, I am DONE DONE DONE. It wasn't that long ago that I finished off the Shimakaze grind, now I've got the Daring in port... I don't want any more of that for a bit. And I need to decide what I can do without.

 

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The trick is to reset a line you enjoy playing so it doesn’t seem like a chore. I unlocked the RB this summer and reset my German cruiser line, the first line I ground to tier X and by far my favorite. About two weeks ago, I unlocked my Hindenburg again. The entire process took about two months, and I enjoyed the experience.

Of course, there is only one ship in that line above tier IV that I do not enjoy playing, and I just piled on the special signals and ground through Roon in a little over two weeks.

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I just grind the IJN gunboat DD line. All the ships in that line are a lot of fun for me and very strong. Also, it's the cheapest line to grind. I think its like 650K or something. 

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I mostly disagree on principle with RB. Would be fine with just having ships there exclusive to the RB, but not Legendary Upgrades. 

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35 minutes ago, mrieder79 said:

I just grind the IJN gunboat DD line. All the ships in that line are a lot of fun for me and very strong. Also, it's the cheapest line to grind. I think its like 650K or something. 

Does anyone have or can point me to a listing of the "line cost" (in XP) for all the lines?

I have also heard that you can save a little by lines where you may have won a free ship that you had in port and that could save you some XP (the German BB line comes to mind, where you could have been awarded a free Bayern (New Years event) and a free Bismarck some years back, so if you already had those in port when you earned the free version the reset allowed you to skip them).  Has anyone heard of this, and more importantly if you have heard of it, is it in fact true?

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Yesterday I finally unlocked my fifth Tier 10 tech-tree ship and gained access to the RB.

Well, actually I unlocked my SIXTH, because I managed to get to the Moskva and have her in port before she became a coal ship. IMHO those who did so should have been credited for it, but that's a side issue.

This being done, I was presented with 10,000 RB points and access to the bureau. And I looked at the tech tree and thought to myself, having just finished the grind to Daring, that the LAST thing I wanted to do was go through that all over again.

 

I can well understand why some people decide that the RB is NOT for them, and I think that's quite fine. 

 

But just for a moment, let me put on my masochist's hat and take a look at it from another perspective. (I can almost hear @KilljoyCutter screaming at me to turn back before it's too late, but here I go.)

  Hide contents

 

I mean, it's actually not that much work. If you play to the third crate every night (37,000 ship XP), you're pulling down 1.11 million XP a month - and even in February you're still breaking a million. That's one ship line every month. 

IF.

And I stress IF.

You have the wherewithal to stick at that one ship line to the third crate every day and do nothing else. 

The research bureau gives one double-points reset every three months, which means that in that cycle you can earn 40,000 RB points (three resets at 10,000 each for two and 20,000 for the double). It takes no more than 67,000 RB points to earn any single item in there (Slava), while some are even less.

OKAY, THAT IS THE MEGA GRIND. WHAT ABOUT SOMETHING SLOWER?

Let's say you don't want to spend all your energy every night on grinding one ship line to the exclusion of all else. Plus you probably need to play other ships to do directives and other cool stuff. So... 

Let's work on one reset per season. Given the 10K you get as a starting bonus, that's three seasons or nine months to get the most expensive ship in the RB.

That's 1 million XP in three months, or 90 days average, or 11,112 XP per day rounding up. That's your line research ship every day to the SECOND crate (not that difficult), then do whatever you want for the rest of the day's play. I could see this as a possibility.

 

 

 

 

Right now, though, I am DONE DONE DONE. It wasn't that long ago that I finished off the Shimakaze grind, now I've got the Daring in port... I don't want any more of that for a bit. And I need to decide what I can do without.

 

i opened mine on last week and i dont think those ships deserve to be caught...

i was about to reset by usn bb line cause i liked carolina, iowa and montana, was willing to get from 5 to 8 on FXP.

if i do that is just for the points but nor for the ships in there.

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43 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

I mostly disagree on principle with RB. Would be fine with just having ships there exclusive to the RB, but not Legendary Upgrades. 

can i use legendary upgrades without resseting that line?

can i install an upgrade on my midway without resseting it?

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9 minutes ago, groomsiebelle said:

Has anyone heard of this, and more importantly if you have heard of it, is it in fact true?

You need to play through every ship in the line if you want the points for it. If you got a crate in some event or other that gave you a jump up to the Bismarck, Hipper, Edinburgh, NC or Chapayev, getting to the T10 might let you reset the line but you wouldn't have research points on any ship you hadn't played. Likewise if you skipped to T8 Cleveland when the US cruisers divided and you had never played Dallas or Helena, you wouldn't get RP for those.

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Yesterday I finally unlocked my fifth Tier 10 tech-tree ship and gained access to the RB.

Well, actually I unlocked my SIXTH, because I managed to get to the Moskva and have her in port before she became a coal ship. IMHO those who did so should have been credited for it, but that's a side issue.

Congratulations.  :-)

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17 minutes ago, groomsiebelle said:

Does anyone have or can point me to a listing of the "line cost" (in XP) for all the lines?

https://wowsft.com/research 

Pick Nation, starting tier, finishing tier and ot should give you the result.

8 minutes ago, Felipe_1982 said:

can i use legendary upgrades without resseting that line?

can i install an upgrade on my midway without resseting it?

You can if you got Research Points. If you unlocked RB then you should have 10k, then need iirc 9.2k more. You can either very slowly get them via missions or reset lines.

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10 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

You need to play through every ship in the line if you want the points for it. If you got a crate in some event or other that gave you a jump up to the Bismarck, Hipper, Edinburgh, NC or Chapayev, getting to the T10 might let you reset the line but you wouldn't have research points on any ship you hadn't played. Likewise if you skipped to T8 Cleveland when the US cruisers divided and you had never played Dallas or Helena, you wouldn't get RP for those.

Understood, I in fact just got Ohio last evening.  I have a hard time thinking there is a loophole in the lines, but I have heard this a few times that if you had ground out the ship and then were subsequently awarded it for free you get a break on the RB.  Several lines might have the quirk, but German BBs have 2 in the tech line that were free and may be unique in that.

I may test it myself actually, as the RB didn't turn out to be terrible.  Like someone else I might prefer German cruisers for overall playability, but since I do sometimes play Hindy in clan battles I might try German BBs.

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16 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

Pick Nation, starting tier, finishing tier and ot should give you the result.

It yields 676,640 XP for the IJN gunboat line, which I'm pretty sure is hulls only with no other modules (e.g. gun fire control systems, better torpedoes) researched. This tool looks tailor made for those wanting to FXP a line and get their research points quickly or who are happy to grind it with "stock" modules (GFCS, torps, engines, etc). In addition, the fact that a lot of the research trees were linearized recently instead of snaking back and forth between hull, torpedo and God knows what else modules (e.g. the pathways from Minsk to Ognevoi and Charles Martel A hull to Saint-Louis), makes it a lot easier to go straight through the hulls alone to get where you want to be.

 

9 minutes ago, groomsiebelle said:

if you had ground out the ship and then were subsequently awarded it for free you get a break on the RB.

In that case yes, but the opportunities are few and far between. The jump to the NC and Chapayev went out the window with the Ovechkin collab, and the jump to the Hipper requires buying an RNG container IIRC; easier to grind it out.

16 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

If you unlocked RB then you should have 10k, then need iirc 9.2k more. You can either very slowly get them via missions or reset lines.

What I'd like to know, and maybe @Hapa_Fodder can tell us at leisure, is what happens if you try to duplicate the UU. For example, I currently have the mission still running on my Minotaur because I got it before they switched to the RB. What would happen if I decided to reset one line and obtain the Mino UU through the RB before finishing the mission in-game?

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu

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Congratulations @Ensign_Cthulhu!!!

Getting those T10 combined with your ever growing list of 19 pt commander means your resource mining will jump considerably.

As to the RB, I have found resetting 1 line/period gives a maintainable pace. YMMV.

As I am in no hurry to pick up anything in the RB I have been grinding (FXP) every other period to cut my credit expenses in half and double dip the 2X bonus.

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4 minutes ago, contag10n said:

As to the RB, I have found resetting 1 line/period gives a maintainable pace.

Speaking of which, we should be grateful that we now have the new permanent campaign. Because this lets you use any ship from Tier 2 to Tier 10, you can use it as a motivator to your progress. Even after it's finished, you could still re-attempt the tasks and use the progress bars as a carrot to spur you onwards. 

As for the credits, the following need to be borne in mind:

1) Your ships are sold at half price, which gives you a healthy credit reserve when you reset.

2) The upgrade slots are demounted free to inventory, so at least you don't have to buy those again (or pay for retraining the captains, who are sent to reserve at WG expense, still trained for the ships, if your reserve slots are full).

In the end, it's still a lot cheaper in credit terms to regrind than it would be to start a new account and grind the whole line out from scratch. Thank God for small mercies, I guess?

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

You need to play through every ship in the line if you want the points for it. If you got a crate in some event or other that gave you a jump up to the Bismarck, Hipper, Edinburgh, NC or Chapayev, getting to the T10 might let you reset the line but you wouldn't have research points on any ship you hadn't played. Likewise if you skipped to T8 Cleveland when the US cruisers divided and you had never played Dallas or Helena, you wouldn't get RP for those.

You can free XP the whole line but only need to play one battle in each of T6, T7, T8, T9, and T10 to get all the RB points for the line. Of course that means you need to spend some credits buying those ships...

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50 minutes ago, Khafni said:

Of course that means you need to spend some credits buying those ships...

Yep. Now that I have access, I'll be having a think about which line I might, MIGHT want to reset and the credit cost involved. As others have said, IJN gunboat DD (ending in Harugumo) is the grind requiring the least XP for a full T1-10 reset. Carriers actually require less ship XP overall, but the yield per reset is lower as a result.

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3 hours ago, warheart1992 said:

I mostly disagree on principle with RB. Would be fine with just having ships there exclusive to the RB, but not Legendary Upgrades. 

I entirely disagree on principle.   Nothing should be locked behind a regrind wall, ship, module, or otherwise. 

 

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3 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Yesterday I finally unlocked my fifth Tier 10 tech-tree ship and gained access to the RB.

Well, actually I unlocked my SIXTH, because I managed to get to the Moskva and have her in port before she became a coal ship. IMHO those who did so should have been credited for it, but that's a side issue.

This being done, I was presented with 10,000 RB points and access to the bureau. And I looked at the tech tree and thought to myself, having just finished the grind to Daring, that the LAST thing I wanted to do was go through that all over again.

 

I can well understand why some people decide that the RB is NOT for them, and I think that's quite fine. 

 

But just for a moment, let me put on my masochist's hat and take a look at it from another perspective. (I can almost hear @KilljoyCutter screaming at me to turn back before it's too late, but here I go.)

  Hide contents

 

I mean, it's actually not that much work. If you play to the third crate every night (37,000 ship XP), you're pulling down 1.11 million XP a month - and even in February you're still breaking a million. That's one ship line every month. 

IF.

And I stress IF.

You have the wherewithal to stick at that one ship line to the third crate every day and do nothing else. 

The research bureau gives one double-points reset every three months, which means that in that cycle you can earn 40,000 RB points (three resets at 10,000 each for two and 20,000 for the double). It takes no more than 67,000 RB points to earn any single item in there (Slava), while some are even less.

OKAY, THAT IS THE MEGA GRIND. WHAT ABOUT SOMETHING SLOWER?

Let's say you don't want to spend all your energy every night on grinding one ship line to the exclusion of all else. Plus you probably need to play other ships to do directives and other cool stuff. So... 

Let's work on one reset per season. Given the 10K you get as a starting bonus, that's three seasons or nine months to get the most expensive ship in the RB.

That's 1 million XP in three months, or 90 days average, or 11,112 XP per day rounding up. That's your line research ship every day to the SECOND crate (not that difficult), then do whatever you want for the rest of the day's play. I could see this as a possibility.

 

 

 

Right now, though, I am DONE DONE DONE. It wasn't that long ago that I finished off the Shimakaze grind, now I've got the Daring in port... I don't want any more of that for a bit. And I need to decide what I can do without.

 

I am 'trying the RB because I want a ship or 2 and I do want to get the remaining UUs that I need.  I reset the IJN CA line because i enjoyed many of the ships in that line.  However, I found I missed the Zao a lot and my progress on her UU was temporarily halted.   So I  just reset th RN CL line because I really haven't played a lot of the Minotaur YET.  I am not a fan of resetting lines I want to play a lot, so .....

I am not a DD player but I am grinding BOTH IJN lines because they are the two cheapest lines to grind.  When the next RB bonus comes in a few months I will reset one of the DD lines, and regrind that.  I will then alternate each quarter with the DD lines and not have to reset any of the other lines.

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I just got my second RB ship two days ago (Sigfried, already had Ohio). I've reset USN BBs 5 or 6 times, RN CLs once. Last run through of USN BBs I did divisioned with a friend doing IJN BBs, and we did the grind on both lines from tier 3 divisioned together. Took a little over a week and was an extremely pleasant grind session. 

If you're going to repeatedly grind a line, you can save yourself ~9 million credits per reset by researching but not buying the tier 10 ship. The RB points first win bonus will stay on the ship, and you can stack them up multiple times. I had 4 stacked up on my Montana before I played her once.

If there's a ship line you enjoy playing through, RB really isn't all that bad. I love every boat in the USN BB line, so it's really not a bother to do it for me.

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Here are the cumulative XP and credit costs for the IJN gunboat line regrind (all figures from the WOWS wiki; no clan discounts assumed). There is a small discrepancy from the fitting tool figure, but it's so close I wouldn't quibble about it. Remember that to get to Umikaze, you need to go through Chikuma. 

The assumption is that you have already done this once and already have the upgrade modules (auto-dismounted to inventory on the reset) and grind through the ships stock without buying the B hull or researching any GFCS, torps etc.

image.png.073249f5f2f0a19379f693bd09b6c950.png

Note that when you push the reset button the first time, you'll be getting payouts for all the modules (GFCS, torps, occasionally guns) that you fully researched the first time through, and the payout cost will therefore be something more than half of the bare hull cost given here. You won't have to raise the whole 52.22 million cr. along the way. 

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu

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17 minutes ago, Epic_Baller said:

If you're going to repeatedly grind a line, you can save yourself ~9 million credits per reset by researching but not buying the tier 10 ship.

Okay, so you can reset with the ship just researched but not in port? I didn't realize that. Good to know.

17 minutes ago, Epic_Baller said:

I love every boat in the USN BB line, so it's really not a bother to do it for me.

I quite like them as well, as far as I have ground up (except Wyoming; I f@#$% hated that boat).

Currently at NC with no special urge to go higher, but once the split happens I might grab Kansas then push on and use the main line for the reset while keeping the "super-Colorados" for gameplay. I'm crossing my fingers that by the time I'm through on the second or third pass, they'll have scrapped one of the Iowa hulls and made it a two-hull grind (as they did with Donskoi while I was grinding for Moskva).

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu

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My main trick with the research bureau is patience. I only reset when I have the x2 bonus. So I reset one line every three months, which I am fine doing.  Only have to reset half as much.  Doesn't feel like much of a grind if I just casually play a line again with no rush.

Edited by Colonel_Potter

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For those, like me, that Free XP instead of grind the line the real question is, "Was the ship, at the end, worth ~2 million FreeXP?" For the T10 ships, Slava and Ohio, it takes 3 runs plus 2k or 3k more RB points. Free XP'ing the IJN DD line 3 times requires 2,029,560 Free XP. Are they worth it?

I have Colbert. She was worth it IMHO. Of course, I've also spent Free XP on Hayate and Smaland. Hayate is worth it but the jury is still out on Smaland.

Edited by Khafni

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One thing to note about the RB is the effect of now being able to stack every economic flag on a ship. For most of my WoWs career I've been a dragon flag / high value camo hoarder thanks to this mentality, but for the anniversary I finally decided to grind / 'grind' through CV's for the SC's.

Starting: US/IJN/RN at T8 with top hull and nothing else researched, KM at T6 from crate and 5k xp on it from the token mission (1.7m XP needed to upgrade all 4 lines to 10). 1.4m FXP

I started with the idea of slowboating through co-op (since I hate CV's in randoms) in US/IJN/RN and then spending my FXP at the end of the event for them. Then I found out Killer Whale was made for KM CV's and decided to grind through the T6 and throw in KM CV's, which was easy and fun... while also showing just how much more XP I could be getting... and so I decided to just go for it slap on Type 59's and all the eco flags in randoms. 

Went from 1.5m FXP to 2m FXP in less than a week. Bought Hayate since there's no better time (there's a ship I didn't think I was gonna get anytime soon). And so after 9 days of mostly just grinding for the daily win on the 4 lines I have 600k XP left to go and 300k FXP built up... and I'm definitely an average at best CV player.

==============

And yes, I know what you're thinking that I'm a long time player and a whale at that and a newbie F2Player isn't going to replicate my results... but as the recent illustration of CC 'I went from 1-10' vids shows, anyone can if they stockpile and wait for events with free Premium Time. For example the current dockyard gives 10x of each dragon flag guaranteed as did the last one. The mission chains give 3x each. PTS gives 3x each and etc, add those up and you have over 30x of each dragon flag with $0 spent. You can pull lots of regular eco signals from resource containers and while T59 camos are hard to come by purely F2P, +100% XP camos are relatively easier through directives / available for coal.

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