Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
AMajor

German dd 128 vs 150 mm guns, which ones do you pick and why?

21 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

184
[DBM]
Members
560 posts
12,320 battles

In those German dds where you have a choice, which gun caliber do you chose, the 128 or the 150 mm?  The 150 mm are real thumper guns that can punish broadside cruisers with AP, but their ROF is a disadvantage in a close-quarters fight with other dds.  I've chosen the 128's in the past as a default but now I'm questioning my choice.  Are the different calibers better in different battle modes (Random vs Ranked, vs Scenario, etc.)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,267
[DEV_X]
[DEV_X]
Alpha Tester
2,870 posts
27,144 battles

I run 150mm on the destroyers that can. If your running 150mms dont play the same as you would with 128mm.

With the 150mm guns I play as a "support DD." I pick a friendly DD to follow into a cap and provide fire, smoke, and hydro support but let them spot. Those 150mm guns can add a lot of punch to the knife fights destroyers get into.

Not that you cant play in another way, but I take the 150mm just for something different and self assign a playstyle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
811
[META_]
Members
1,829 posts
18,948 battles

I play all dd nations and I definitely personally would choose the dpm..the 128s on the germans already have the added he pen...i make youtube videos my channel is Meta_Man2002 please check it out and subscribe if you like the videos..i have multiple on german dds. Have a great day. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
184
[DBM]
Members
560 posts
12,320 battles
9 minutes ago, Skuggsja said:

I pick a friendly DD to follow into a cap and provide fire, smoke, and hydro support but let them spot

Yes, if there is enough dds in a match.  If there are only 2 per side or less, you don't have that luxury

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,267
[DEV_X]
[DEV_X]
Alpha Tester
2,870 posts
27,144 battles
1 hour ago, AMajor said:

Yes, if there is enough dds in a match.  If there are only 2 per side or less, you don't have that luxury

Well, you're not wrong for sure but factoring in the off chance of how low DD numbers in battle doesnt seem worth it to me. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,416
[D-DAY]
Members
6,974 posts

I tend do go 128. With the faster reload, fire chance and 32mm pen it seems to work better for me. I find trying to get into a position to allow me to 150 AP a cruiser is more likely to get me killed, if I am tracked down, that's what I use my torps for.

But that's me and my choice; some may find the 150s work better for them. :Smile_honoring:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
318
[BIER]
Members
463 posts
7,417 battles

The Z-23, because it gets 5 x 150mm over 4 x 128mm, is a total no-brainer for the 150mm.  Plus, at T8, the Z-23 is actually far more effective with the 150mm, as it plays very well as a "support" DD, not a "first into the cap" DD. 

The Z-39 likewise plays very well with it's 150mm, though it can bully caps easily at T7. 

The Gaede isn't too good with the 150mm, as the reduction in ROF is noticeable and pretty important down at that tier.

 

Overall, I don't find the ROF reduction for the 150mm to be important in anti-DD work. They still have pretty potent HE, and my aim is more than good enough to keep landing them reliably. There is a bit of a DPM reduction, but as you generally will be fighting wounded DDs, it's not such a problem. And the HE pen is great for farming CAs/BBs with those 150mm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1
[TYPH]
Members
5 posts
8,062 battles

Correct me if I am wrong, but the 150mm guns would get no benefit from the captain skills BFT and AFT. That is why I stick with 128's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,538
[PSA]
Members
5,116 posts
3,732 battles

I'm on the fence. I used to be 100% pro-150s, but now that the 128s can pen 32mm, it's not so cut and dry.

The 150s can pen more things and can reliably citadel cruisers up close in ways the 128s cannot. The 150s also light more fires per minute. On the other hand, the 128s have better dpm overall.

Both work for me. I would LOVE to see another premium German DD with the 150s, although with the Z-23 reload, not the Z-39/Gaede one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
811
[META_]
Members
1,829 posts
18,948 battles
8 hours ago, KaptainKaybe said:

I'm on the fence. I used to be 100% pro-150s, but now that the 128s can pen 32mm, it's not so cut and dry.

The 150s can pen more things and can reliably citadel cruisers up close in ways the 128s cannot. The 150s also light more fires per minute. On the other hand, the 128s have better dpm overall.

Both work for me. I would LOVE to see another premium German DD with the 150s, although with the Z-23 reload, not the Z-39/Gaede one.

The reason 128s mainly better is a good amount of DPM difference....I want the DPM so I get the 128s

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,397
[DVYJC]
Members
4,208 posts
10,819 battles

I haven't figured out a way to make the 150s work well. Yes, you can citadel light cruisers easily and heavy cruisers as well, but you're only firing four or five barrels. You don't have the alpha or DPM to fight light cruisers, most of whom have fire rates not a lot slower with twice as many barrels and more HP to trade with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
143
[A-D-F]
Members
534 posts

While the 128mm guns have better DPM on paper than 150mm guns.


But lets do a little comparison with a Gaede, over the course of ~30 seconds of fire ( duration of a typical gunfight between DDs )

4 x 128mm : HE 1500 damage with 4.6 sec reload (with BFT) that would be ~7 ( 1+~6 reloads 27.6 sec ) full salvos 4 x 1500 x 7 = 42k HE max (actual damage will be less than 1/3 of that )

4 x 150mm : HE 2200 damage  with 7.5 sec reload that would be 5 ( 1+4 reloads 30 sec )  full salvos  4 x 2200 x 5 = 44k HE max ( actual damage will be less than 1/3 of that )

The fight has to last ~40 sec or longer in order for 128s superior HE DPM to matter ( excluding things like RNG accuracy, etc )


The only major difference between the them on a Gaede is AP DPM  ~156.5k for 128mm vs 118.4k for 150mm.
Here is another caveat, 128's don't have the pen to threaten CLs past ~4 km and don't have "shot fuse" to be consistent against DDs all the time. 
So on Gaede it those options are "side grades" / upgrades dependent on play style

On Z-23 the stats for 128's are even more misleading because of B-hull + 150s =  5 guns instead of 4 with 128s.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WoWS Community Contributors
3,487 posts
13,958 battles

I've experimented with Z-23.  Since the HE pen buff gets you past 32mm and with DE you get more fires per minute than the 150mm before you even factor in BFT.  Its a no brainer, 128mm these days, and its a shame since the 150mm should have some play style perks different than the 128mm.  

Edited by Destroyer_KuroshioKai
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45
[GNOME]
[GNOME]
Beta Testers
152 posts
7,279 battles

Judging by the relatively quiet state of this forum, it appears that the high tier German DDs are still considered bad right?

EDIT: I got the Z-52 as my first tier 10...and it's so underwhelming.  It just feels mediocre.  Why bother with this line when you're going to end up with this thing?

Edited by CankedTank

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12,774
[WOLF3]
[WOLF3]
Members
30,867 posts
25,982 battles
On 11/30/2020 at 9:05 AM, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

I've experimented with Z-23.  Since the HE pen buff gets you past 32mm and with DE you get more fires per minute than the 150mm before you even factor in BFT.  Its a no brainer, 128mm these days, and its a shame since the 150mm should have some play style perks different than the 128mm.  

Pretty much this.  Even within the confines of Co-op, when that buff went into place, I was sailing in one of my Tier X Cruisers and started receiving fire from a bot Z-52.  I was amazed at how quick I was losing HP.

 

And that was from a Bot Z-52, charging right at me guns blazing asking to get blapped by me.  I don't want to imagine what would be if that was a player camping smoke or something and gunning me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17
[BIER]
Members
34 posts
3,745 battles

I'm going to disagree with you on the 128mm being everything.

 

On the Z-23 in particular, in order to get it up to snuff on the 128mm you have to invest in DE and BFT.

That gets you 4 guns, capable of 32mm of pen, with 8% fire chance, 1500 HE alpha, and 3.6 reload (or 16.67 shots/minute).  That works out to an aggregate 100k alpha, with 533% fire. 

If you don't get DE & BFT, you're back at 90k HE alpha, and 360% fire.

 

If you stick with the 150mm, you don't invest that 5 points, and get:

5 guns, 38mm pen, 12% fire, 2200 HE alpha, and 6.7 reload (8.955 shots/minute).  That's 98.5k alpha, 537% fire.

In other words, you get virtually identical damage/fire performance out of the 150mm vs 128mm, BUT you get the ability to pen 38mm decks, PLUS don't have to spend 5 captain points. You also get a ship that doesn't have to broadside to get more than 1 gun into action. The nose-in DPM of the 150mm configuration vs 128mm isn't even worth discussing, it's so ludicrously in the 150mm's favor.  The 150mm also gives you the ability to citadel broadside light cruisers with ridiculous AP.  The 128mm can't do that. 

 

Sure, you can build that Z-23 as a gunboat, investing in AFT as well, but what's the point?  It's crappy at that role, compared to other DDs. 

 

Truth is, for the Z-23, the 150mm is still the FAR better choice.  You can take that 5 captain points and use it for Radio Location, which is immensely useful for a ship that has crappy detection, but good torps. And still have 1 more left over.

In short, you're on the hook for a minimum 15 point captain when you use the 128mm, and it can't match the game performance of a 14-pointer when using 150mm.  The Z-23 has always been an alpha-strike ship. For many reasons, it's not the kind of ship that does Dakka.  It does 2-3 salvos and moves on. Heck, even using smoke, it's only gonna get in less than 15 salvos on the 128mm before it has to move. Compare that to say, a Akizuki or Benson, which can get over 80 salvos before their smokes expire.

 

The Gaeda, on the other hand, always has had the 150 as much more of a side-grade.  It changes the playstyle from a cap bully to a long-range AP spammer.  With the HE pen upgrade, the 150mm on the Gaeda make much less sense, as they're simply not as flexible in overall use as the 128mm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
213
[ARC]
Members
1,077 posts
11,580 battles
On 12/26/2020 at 11:50 PM, RAnybody said:

I'm going to disagree with you on the 128mm being everything.

 

On the Z-23 in particular, in order to get it up to snuff on the 128mm you have to invest in DE and BFT.

That gets you 4 guns, capable of 32mm of pen, with 8% fire chance, 1500 HE alpha, and 3.6 reload (or 16.67 shots/minute).  That works out to an aggregate 100k alpha, with 533% fire. 

If you don't get DE & BFT, you're back at 90k HE alpha, and 360% fire.

 

If you stick with the 150mm, you don't invest that 5 points, and get:

5 guns, 38mm pen, 12% fire, 2200 HE alpha, and 6.7 reload (8.955 shots/minute).  That's 98.5k alpha, 537% fire.

In other words, you get virtually identical damage/fire performance out of the 150mm vs 128mm, BUT you get the ability to pen 38mm decks, PLUS don't have to spend 5 captain points. You also get a ship that doesn't have to broadside to get more than 1 gun into action. The nose-in DPM of the 150mm configuration vs 128mm isn't even worth discussing, it's so ludicrously in the 150mm's favor.  The 150mm also gives you the ability to citadel broadside light cruisers with ridiculous AP.  The 128mm can't do that. 

 

Sure, you can build that Z-23 as a gunboat, investing in AFT as well, but what's the point?  It's crappy at that role, compared to other DDs. 

 

Truth is, for the Z-23, the 150mm is still the FAR better choice.  You can take that 5 captain points and use it for Radio Location, which is immensely useful for a ship that has crappy detection, but good torps. And still have 1 more left over.

In short, you're on the hook for a minimum 15 point captain when you use the 128mm, and it can't match the game performance of a 14-pointer when using 150mm.  The Z-23 has always been an alpha-strike ship. For many reasons, it's not the kind of ship that does Dakka.  It does 2-3 salvos and moves on. Heck, even using smoke, it's only gonna get in less than 15 salvos on the 128mm before it has to move. Compare that to say, a Akizuki or Benson, which can get over 80 salvos before their smokes expire.

 

The Gaeda, on the other hand, always has had the 150 as much more of a side-grade.  It changes the playstyle from a cap bully to a long-range AP spammer.  With the HE pen upgrade, the 150mm on the Gaeda make much less sense, as they're simply not as flexible in overall use as the 128mm.

Very much this. For me 4 guns simply doesn't cut it in tier VIII, and Z-23's 150mm guns' performance is not that damned to discard it. You just don't play it as a normal gunship

On the other side, Gaede's 150s' performance is not that good, and you get the same number of guns. There, the 128s are the guns to go. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×