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TheGreatBlasto

Why can't carriers sink each other?

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Flambass mentions in his recent video that carriers can't attack or sink each other. I have heard this complaint before.

What happens if your carrier tries to attack the red carrier?

 

:Smile_child:

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AA is to strong and ya lose ya planes...

Its setup that way so carriers don't snipe each other at the start... if one carrier dies at the start its pretty much game over...

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CCs have unlimited planes, but carriers are the only ship with functional aa in the entire game. Thus they are immune to attack. In addition they are immune to fire and flooding damage because they have auto repair with ~1 sec cooldown (1 min+ for every other ship in game). Thus cvs cant sink cvs.

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16 minutes ago, TheGreatBlasto said:

Flambass mentions in his recent video that carriers can't attack or sink each other. I have heard this complaint before.

What happens if your carrier tries to attack the red carrier?

 

:Smile_child:

Carriers have 4 defensive fighter consumables that automatically get used when the hull gets spotted.  So if the enemy CV attacks, the fighters kill any planes that remain after the strike and deny a second strike.

It's ok, because you don't have to attack with a full squadron... but it means the first four attacks are done by flying all the way across the map.  This can take like 8 minutes, and your not doing anything for your team during that time.

While the CV-snipe can be good in the late-game, it's really hard to invest 8 minutes doing it while the enemy team's CV is attacking your friends and breaking flanks.

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4 hours ago, Ahskance said:

Carriers have 4 defensive fighter consumables that automatically get used when the hull gets spotted.  So if the enemy CV attacks, the fighters kill any planes that remain after the strike and deny a second strike.

It's ok, because you don't have to attack with a full squadron... but it means the first four attacks are done by flying all the way across the map.  This can take like 8 minutes, and your not doing anything for your team during that time.

While the CV-snipe can be good in the late-game, it's really hard to invest 8 minutes doing it while the enemy team's CV is attacking your friends and breaking flanks.

In theory the E. Lowenhardt has long range torps and could drop on a stationary CV and not get caught by the fighters...maybe?

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28 minutes ago, custer_14 said:

In theory the E. Lowenhardt has long range torps and could drop on a stationary CV and not get caught by the fighters...maybe?

 

If the enemy CV is moving then long range torps will indeed work to take out a carrier. If what the OP said is trure, mainly:

5 hours ago, TheGreatBlasto said:

Flambass mentions in his recent video that carriers can't attack or sink each other. I have heard this complaint before.

What happens if your carrier tries to attack the red carrier?

... then he needs to retract that statement. 

The reason attacking a carrier is mostly useless is even IF you have it down to one point of health remaining, it is still as lethal as if it were 100% full health. This vision holds true for every other ship type as long as the main batteries/torpedo tubes are not damaged or destroyed. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but surface ships do not suffer a reduction in the ability of their guns to target/hit reds ships at full strength, even if the ship is at 1% health. 

They probably could/should adjust that but then where would the fun be in that? I imagine that would be their logic. 

I've attacked and been attacked by red carriers at the start of a match as well as during. They usually are not my main target unless they are nearby to other red targets. I'll drop my primary target then continue on to the carrier and drop again. 

As @Ahskance stated above, it's about return on investment (ROI). Is it worth the time needed? In most cases, it is not in early game. By the way, he does some Twitch videos in carriers. Might want to check them out. 

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As others have alluded to, the system is set up to specifically discourage early game CV sniping. Back in the RTS days with multiple squadrons, a CV snipe was a high risk, high reward gamble that often times would determine the outcome of the match. Either the snipe was successful (tier VII Kaga was very effective at this) and the victorious CV had free reign for the rest of the match, or it failed and the sniping CV wasted significant time and resources for no appreciable gain while the other CV ran roughshod over his or her team.

WG understandably found either outcome undesirable (and indeed, reducing the influence of CVs was a major goal of the rework), so the new AA system combined with the fighter consumable (both active and automatic) heavily discourages the tactic.

Edited by Nevermore135

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A bad cv player will not succeed killing a competent cv player. 

A Very Good CV Player will have a very hard time Killing a Competent CV player.

Like others mentioned, it's not a good way to spend your time and resources.

 

I don't think people have necessarily addressed it yet but, a CV can kill another CV with planes. Torpedo Bombers are your primary weapon. With the German, Rockets are your main weapon against non-german carriers.

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Truth?

CVs are the most OP class in the game.  They have more impact on a match than any other class of ship.  WG knows this and knows that if one teams CV sinks the other teams CV,,,, game over.  This prevents balance comrade.

So instead of balancing CVs by addressing the elements which make them OP, they make it so CVs can't attack other CVs.  Therefore, in some convoluted, vodka fueled fantasy world, the game is balanced.

 

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They can attack each other , it is just a waste of time and resources...you might kill her , you might not....if you don't , you wasted all the resources and time...if you do kill her she probably wasn't a strong captain(just the facts mam)....if she's less than half health from others beating on her it might be a productive idea.

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It is less about "can't kill each other" and more about "not an effective use of time and resources" early game anyway.  Now later game if you see a CV that has been hit and is lower heath it may be worth it but trying to snipe full health a enemy CV that is across the map is time consuming and will cost you a ton of planes.

Oh and killing the enemy CV is not always "game over" for the enemy team.  I have had quite a few games where our team managed to kill the enemy team CV early on "CV snipe" but we still managed to loose because the rest of the team potatoed pretty hard and their surface ships were played very well.

Edited by HallaSnackbar

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CVs are still the only class wrapped in multiple layers of bubble wrap protection to ensure 99% of the time they live to late game.

 

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9 hours ago, Daigosama_1 said:

CVs are still the only class wrapped in multiple layers of bubble wrap protection to ensure 99% of the time they live to late game.

 

I don't play carriers.

 

Flambass made it sound as if they had a protective force field around them because WG was determined to shove them down our throats. 

 

 

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The most reliable way to take out the enemy CV is for your CV is to keep it spotted so your surface ships can destroy it.

 That being said, sending planes over in the first 2 minutes so your teammate can snipe it from 24km away in the first few minutes is just garbage, like border sliding or other inanity.  It’s not a tactic, it’s trolling.  <—-period

 

 

Edited by SonicAnatidae

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On 9/1/2020 at 2:19 AM, TheGreatBlasto said:

Flambass mentions in his recent video that carriers can't attack or sink each other. I have heard this complaint before.

What happens if your carrier tries to attack the red carrier?

 

:Smile_child:

Between a CVs AA and their Fighters, it is very hard to strike a CV.  It can be done of course but you lose a ton of efficiency if you target the CV.  If you want to maximize your rewards and wins, your much better off going after much softer targets and letting your surface combatants kill off any CVs the enemy has.  

Honestly,  for the CV player, this situation is probably a good thing.  I mean if CVs were rather easy to strike,  every match would be the CVs immediately targeting each other making playing a CV very un-fun.  To be honest, even if they were easy to strike,  I think over time, anyone who liked to play CVs would find themselves in unspoken agreement to not strike each other again because it would totally take the fun out of playing a CV.

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On 9/2/2020 at 7:50 PM, Midnitewolf said:

Between a CVs AA and their Fighters, it is very hard to strike a CV.  It can be done of course but you lose a ton of efficiency if you target the CV.  If you want to maximize your rewards and wins, your much better off going after much softer targets and letting your surface combatants kill off any CVs the enemy has.  

Honestly,  for the CV player, this situation is probably a good thing.  I mean if CVs were rather easy to strike,  every match would be the CVs immediately targeting each other making playing a CV very un-fun.  To be honest, even if they were easy to strike,  I think over time, anyone who liked to play CVs would find themselves in unspoken agreement to not strike each other again because it would totally take the fun out of playing a CV.

Un-fun as opposed to two cruisers torpedoing each other? Two BB's ramming each other? 

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On 9/1/2020 at 5:18 AM, Merc_R_Us said:

A bad cv player will not succeed killing a competent cv player. 

A Very Good CV Player will have a very hard time Killing a Competent CV player.

Like others mentioned, it's not a good way to spend your time and resources.

 

I don't think people have necessarily addressed it yet but, a CV can kill another CV with planes. Torpedo Bombers are your primary weapon. With the German, Rockets are your main weapon against non-german carriers.

Or if things get to a certain point, there's always your secondaries. I won a duel with a Ranger in my Furious once.

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9 minutes ago, SeaKnight_1990 said:

Or if things get to a certain point, there's always your secondaries. I won a duel with a Ranger in my Furious once.

Yep, Ranger with 4 secondary 127mm guns (I think) is no match for anything 

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9 minutes ago, SeaKnight_1990 said:

Or if things get to a certain point, there's always your secondaries. I won a duel with a Ranger in my Furious once.

And its annoying as hell to be in the middle of the map and have your own carrier (German, of course) crossing through your line of fire and ruining a shot, all guns blazing.

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14 minutes ago, michael_zahnle said:

And its annoying as hell to be in the middle of the map and have your own carrier (German, of course) crossing through your line of fire and ruining a shot, all guns blazing.

I mean if the player put in so many rescources for secondary build, he better use it.

 

would prefer if he was escorted by a couple of american DDs though to make him more effective

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On 8/31/2020 at 11:19 PM, TheGreatBlasto said:

Flambass mentions in his recent video that carriers can't attack or sink each other. I have heard this complaint before.

What happens if your carrier tries to attack the red carrier?

I don't know what Flambass is talking about. 2020-09-08.thumb.png.574f4a929fc2c907aed95c06e3fbe1b3.png1025181918_2020-09-08(1).thumb.png.df0cd261616db3dbbe79d833eee5a6b4.pngSank this one just fine, though it was Co-Op.

And if we're talking about Randoms, I sailed my Hosho into the enemy Hermes & we both sank. In another game I raked the enemy Langley with my 5.5" guns, but got the kill stolen when he was on 31 HP.

I don't know why Flambass or some of the other players in this thread say otherwise. ♦

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Several of my CV's have engaged in secondary vs. secondary close-quarters battle with other CV's, with the prelude being exchanges in squadrons conducting attacks on the opposing CV.

My Shokaku sank a Lexington during the 1 vs. 1 Ranked battles the other year.  It was close, but intense and fun.

As other's have mentioned, dealing the with the AA bubbles and Fighter-screens that opposing CV's put-up is not cost-effective in the early or middle stages of most games.

So, CV's tend to attempt to sink opposing team's other ship types, to "clear the way" and help keep their own team's ships afloat.

Late game?  Yeah!  Bring it on!  :-)

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