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JimmyTheRealPirate

Tier 10, the new joke tier?

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Is tier 10 the joke tier of WOWs?

 

Honestly, I am really starting to hate this tier. I have been playing other tiers and leveling up some lines, you know, some fun stuff. BUT every once and while I will test out tier 10, thinking "Maybe this time it will be different."... its not. I'm not talking about terrible ships, terrible classes, or terrible interaction between classes. I'm talking about the T10 player base. Most of them are so bad at the game that it makes a man want to cry. These terrible players are all over the place, not just one or two games here or there, but

EVERY
SINGLE
GAME

is full of them.

 

Now, I'm not talking about lemming training to one side of the map, or getting caught out by radar. That is stuff that happens over the course of a normal game. What I am talking about is

1. Players not knowing how to use their consumables, for example Radar cruisers either not knowing they have radar, or using it extremely late. Just had a game where we had a gearing, petro, colbert (me), and conq all pointing at a cap that had a hayate in it. Even though the petro was close enough to almost get the cap himself, he did not radar. The Hayate left the cap, entered it again, left it again, smoked (fully deployed), and sat in smoke to shoot a few rounds AT THE PETRO, and still no radar. Only after the DD left their smoke did he finally radar. Shortly after he ran into the predictable torp wall.

2. Not knowing the role of their ship, or how to use that ship. Another game I was in the colbert. Moved up behind a good island on our side of the map, waiting for some spotting to light up the enemy. But none came... the flank was completely free, no radar ships at the time, had a perfect broadside shot on their slava, nothing could shot back over the island etc. A great spot for a colbert, all I needed was spotting... but still nothing. It wasn't until 8 MINUTES into the game did our groz finally go past the island (which was on our side of the map and not being pushed). By that time a DM showed up and quickly shut down the party before it started. Granted, I don't completely blame the groz, the rest of the team had literally not passed our own capzone. I almost forgot! we also had a carrier that game, who did little to spot anything important (other than the free spoting they get just from launching their planes). I don't think our team was alone in this aspect, the enemy carrier never fly their planes close enough to really spot me.

 

Those two games really stood out for me, but they are not alone. Every t10 game I've played recently are terrible experiences like this.

 

I understand this is a rant, and it does help me get some frustration off of my chest by typing it, but honestly it goes farther than just a simple rant. T10 is the end game of WoWs (well, closest thing this game has to end game), its the culmination of all a players hard work on leveling a line, its the tier where the ships are strongest and your carefully crafted skills *should* be put to the test. YET it has somehow turned into a garbage pile full of players who simply do not know how to player the game. They don't know the strengths or weakness of their ships, how to spot and take advantage of a situation, the role of their class, or something as simple as what their consumables do and when to use them. Lets be real here, how many BBs do you think end a t10 match and only used 1 or 2 of their heals? Proper use of a heal is so easy, just move close enough to the enemy to get shot at, but not close enough to eat torps. Boom, done, now you are being a useful BB. Yet this, and many other simple ideas that should be learned on the path to T10, are just not present to many players at that tier.

 

TL;DR a rant about how the T10 player base does not seem to know how to play the game past "sit behind an island and shoot", and that I think this is a problem considering that T10 play should be a culmination of the work put into the game and the skills learned during the grind.

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Question: If you are playing a T10 ship, isn't it to your advantage that the other tier 10 ships in the match are terrible?

If your enemies are terrible, you can farm them in short order for a victory.

If your allies are terrible, there is more damage for you to farm.

The only bad combo here is if your allies are terrible but the enemy is good, which shouldn't be reason to worry because this scenario isn't a constant and the times when it actually happens is the perfect moment to test yourself.

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Did you hear the one about tier 10? Forget it, it has no point. Oh, yeah, maybe that was the one about the pencil.

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Players in the early days would grind a line with a lot of hard work. Learning had to be a requirement or you just didn't get ahead.

Recently though, it has become too easy to get up the tiers and very little combat experience is the result. Also team dynamic is non-existent among non-division players. 

Top clans play well together only because of hard work in a previous account. The rebirth or reroll is being able to take the lessons learned from that first account, and not make those mistakes again. 

Having said that, there are players that from the very beginning that did do the grind, work well with others, and have a good head on their shoulders to not be selfish. They also happen to be in good to great clans.

The difference is that such players are wary of players that had it easy. Players of this caliber measure new players by the hard work that is put in and the willingness to learn.

If tier 10 is like this in Randoms, then it's a product of the times. The new players are leaping into tier 10 and they have not been in the game long. No hard work. No idea what they are doing. Refuse to take advice and grow. 

Find some mature players to division with. It should help.

 

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6 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Question: If you are playing a T10 ship, isn't it to your advantage that the other tier 10 ships in the match are terrible?

If your enemies are terrible, you can farm them in short order for a victory.

If your allies are terrible, there is more damage for you to farm.

The only bad combo here is if your allies are terrible but the enemy is good, which shouldn't be reason to worry because this scenario isn't a constant and the times when it actually happens is the perfect moment to test yourself.

I'm not saying that the enemy team isn't bad, nor that I can't do good in some ships, IE thunderer/conqeror,. HOWEVER, like it or not, this a team based game and having the highest tier be full of players who don't know how to play really diminishes that tier. It doesn't matter if you win or lose, if getting the win or being handed a lose is unsatisfying due to issues like this.

 

Its like playing an MMO. During the leveling process things are going well. Sure, not everyone has the best gear, or know how to play their class 100%, but they are learning as are you. As you level and get better you notice other members of your random parties are also getting better overall, eventually most players know what they are doing and the party functions like a well oiled machine. Then finally, the time arrives - Max level. You deck yourself out with top level gear and join the random dungeon finder. You finally get in, all that hard work paid off now that you get to play with the big boys...AND everyone wipes. Your DPS couldn't pass the DPS check, since none of them included the new max level skills into their rotation, your healer didn't put res on their hot bar, and the tank has no idea how to hold aggro and block attacks. This is what playing t10 feels like now. 

 

On the upside, WoWs is a bit different in the fact that you can go to lower tiers and have more fun while getting more rewards. So T10 can be completely ignored, except for the occasional super container giveaway. 

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1 hour ago, JimmyTheRealPirate said:

Is tier 10 the joke tier of WOWs?

 

Honestly, I am really starting to hate this tier. I have been playing other tiers and leveling up some lines, you know, some fun stuff. BUT every once and while I will test out tier 10, thinking "Maybe this time it will be different."... its not. I'm not talking about terrible ships, terrible classes, or terrible interaction between classes. I'm talking about the T10 player base. Most of them are so bad at the game that it makes a man want to cry. These terrible players are all over the place, not just one or two games here or there, but

EVERY
SINGLE
GAME

is full of them.

 

Now, I'm not talking about lemming training to one side of the map, or getting caught out by radar. That is stuff that happens over the course of a normal game. What I am talking about is

1. Players not knowing how to use their consumables, for example Radar cruisers either not knowing they have radar, or using it extremely late. Just had a game where we had a gearing, petro, colbert (me), and conq all pointing at a cap that had a hayate in it. Even though the petro was close enough to almost get the cap himself, he did not radar. The Hayate left the cap, entered it again, left it again, smoked (fully deployed), and sat in smoke to shoot a few rounds AT THE PETRO, and still no radar. Only after the DD left their smoke did he finally radar. Shortly after he ran into the predictable torp wall.

2. Not knowing the role of their ship, or how to use that ship. Another game I was in the colbert. Moved up behind a good island on our side of the map, waiting for some spotting to light up the enemy. But none came... the flank was completely free, no radar ships at the time, had a perfect broadside shot on their slava, nothing could shot back over the island etc. A great spot for a colbert, all I needed was spotting... but still nothing. It wasn't until 8 MINUTES into the game did our groz finally go past the island (which was on our side of the map and not being pushed). By that time a DM showed up and quickly shut down the party before it started. Granted, I don't completely blame the groz, the rest of the team had literally not passed our own capzone. I almost forgot! we also had a carrier that game, who did little to spot anything important (other than the free spoting they get just from launching their planes). I don't think our team was alone in this aspect, the enemy carrier never fly their planes close enough to really spot me.

 

Those two games really stood out for me, but they are not alone. Every t10 game I've played recently are terrible experiences like this.

 

I understand this is a rant, and it does help me get some frustration off of my chest by typing it, but honestly it goes farther than just a simple rant. T10 is the end game of WoWs (well, closest thing this game has to end game), its the culmination of all a players hard work on leveling a line, its the tier where the ships are strongest and your carefully crafted skills *should* be put to the test. YET it has somehow turned into a garbage pile full of players who simply do not know how to player the game. They don't know the strengths or weakness of their ships, how to spot and take advantage of a situation, the role of their class, or something as simple as what their consumables do and when to use them. Lets be real here, how many BBs do you think end a t10 match and only used 1 or 2 of their heals? Proper use of a heal is so easy, just move close enough to the enemy to get shot at, but not close enough to eat torps. Boom, done, now you are being a useful BB. Yet this, and many other simple ideas that should be learned on the path to T10, are just not present to many players at that tier.

 

TL;DR a rant about how the T10 player base does not seem to know how to play the game past "sit behind an island and shoot", and that I think this is a problem considering that T10 play should be a culmination of the work put into the game and the skills learned during the grind.

read the thread I made regarding the times of day to play. There is a sweet spot to play tier 10. 

It is when the player base is at its lowest for the day 

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You're blaming players but it is WG at fault. Of course newer players are going to jump to higher tier ships asap. Most ships in the Armory are offered with a 3pt commander. This is totally inadequate for T6 randoms, here they are running T9's & T10's ships with less than 10pt commander when 14pts is just OK on many ships.

It is not just the upper tiers or PVP battles. Saturday in several Narai battles DD's used smoke instead of positioning themselves, blocking line of sight at critical moments. Luckily we only lost a star or 2 in these battles.

If you play coops you see a lot of players trying to use PVP tactics. I'm sure these are randoms mains looking to finish directives. Of course in coops  3 or 4 players doing this increases the score of coops mains.

 

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Tier 10 is the most pointless tier in the game

  1. No tier 11 ship to unlock
  2. Very few (tier X's) have modules to unlock
  3. Full of bad gameplay and (some) noobs in tier X prems
  4. Too many players after easy MM-2 matchmaker.

 

IMHO I'd rather start a new line that play a tier X 

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1 hour ago, madgiecool said:

Tier 10 is the most pointless tier in the game

  1. No tier 11 ship to unlock
  2. Very few (tier X's) have modules to unlock
  3. Full of bad gameplay and (some) noobs in tier X prems
  4. Too many players after easy MM-2 matchmaker.

 

IMHO I'd rather start a new line that play a tier X 

Challenge:

1.  Who cares about no Tier XI

2.  I'd say it's a good thing there's not much additional modules there.  You get your ship and are ready to go right there.

3.  Lower tiers have their trash also.  If anything, the cheaper Premiums in lower tiers will be more accessible for newbs.  Where do you think the new players are?  Low and mid tiers.  You know the tiers where you Seal Clubbers are trying to victimize.

4.  More like people can't handle Tier X combat so they run away back to somewhere lower, where they can't be as harshly punished for making stupid mistakes as what happens in Tier X.  Any stupid habits a player has developed as they've gone up the tiers gets harshly punished in Tier X

- Flashing a broadside in Tier VI you got away with it because most of the BBs there have trouble engaging at 15km.  Do the same in Tier X, you're getting rocked.

 

- It's harder to get into a crossfire / focus fire situation in lower tiers because of the shortening of engagement ranges.  Hell, there are mid tier Cruisers where their max gun range is ridiculously short. 

Perth 12.81km max gun range. 

Leander 13.17km. 

Devonshire, a Heavy Cruiser, 14km gun range. 

Boise / NdJ 13.56km. 

Atlanta with AFT is 13.34km. 

BB New Mexico 16.08km for the lulz.

 

The chances of getting into a crossfire / focus fire situation is a lot less the lower in tiers you go, so one can get pretty sloppy in their sailing.

Do the exact same thing at 17km in Tier X, you're in big trouble.  Gun ranges get a lot longer and the capacity for various ships to engage at those distances go up.  Cruisers get more range and must be respected.  Tier VI Aoba and her 14.91km gun range doesn't threaten anyone that positioned badly the way Zao, Henri IV, Veneia, Moskva, Worcester, Hindenburg will.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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First off, Colbert is good behind an island, but if you sit there for 8 minutes waiting for spotting, you are the problem. Go out and play in open water, it is excellent for that too. Second off, there are very few people who are not bad at the game. An average player will amaze you with how poorly they do. This is not unique to high tier or low tier

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4 minutes ago, MyClanTagIsASnakeHowCute said:

First off, Colbert is good behind an island, but if you sit there for 8 minutes waiting for spotting, you are the problem. Go out and play in open water, it is excellent for that too. Second off, there are very few people who are not bad at the game. An average player will amaze you with how poorly they do. This is not unique to high tier or low tier

It's always fun playing a ship that depends on others spotting for you, and there's nobody left to spot.  I remember dealing with something like that with RNCLs, they thrive on Smoke or hiding behind islands with others spotting.  If that isn't happening, then things get interesting.  Most especially if you're in squishy Neptune, Minotaur :Smile_teethhappy:

 

I'll agree that players in general are pretty bad.  Long ago I used to assume the average WR% was 50%.  It's not that at all.

It got to the point that if I saw someone with a "mere" 50% WR on my team, that player was a treasure compared to what you usually get out there.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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15 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Challenge:

1.  Who cares about no Tier XI

2.  I'd say it's a good thing there's not much additional modules there.  You get your ship and are ready to go right there.

3.  Lower tiers have their trash also.  If anything, the cheaper Premiums in lower tiers will be more accessible for newbs.  Where do you think the new players are?  Low and mid tiers.  You know the tiers where you Seal Clubbers are trying to victimize.

4.  More like people can't handle Tier X combat so they run away back to somewhere lower, where they can't be as harshly punished for making stupid mistakes as what happens in Tier X.  Any stupid habits a player has developed as they've gone up the tiers gets harshly punished in Tier X

- Flashing a broadside in Tier VI you got away with it because most of the BBs there have trouble engaging at 15km.  Do the same in Tier X, you're getting rocked.

 

- It's harder to get into a crossfire / focus fire situation in lower tiers because of the shortening of engagement ranges.  Hell, there are mid tier Cruisers where their max gun range is ridiculously short. 

Perth 12.81km max gun range. 

Leander 13.17km. 

Devonshire, a Heavy Cruiser, 14km gun range. 

Boise / NdJ 13.56km. 

Atlanta with AFT is 13.34km. 

BB New Mexico 16.08km for the lulz.

 

The chances of getting into a crossfire / focus fire situation is a lot less the lower in tiers you go, so one can get pretty sloppy in their sailing.

Do the exact same thing at 17km in Tier X, you're in big trouble.  Gun ranges get a lot longer and the capacity for various ships to engage at those distances go up.  Cruisers get more range and must be respected.  Tier VI Aoba and her 14.91km gun range doesn't threaten anyone that positioned badly the way Zao, Henri IV, Veneia, Moskva, Worcester, Hindenburg will.

That might be why blowouts are so common in high tiers these days. Just a random thought.

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2 hours ago, madgiecool said:

Tier 10 is the most pointless tier in the game

  1. No tier 11 ship to unlock
  2. Very few (tier X's) have modules to unlock
  3. Full of bad gameplay and (some) noobs in tier X prems
  4. Too many players after easy MM-2 matchmaker.

 

IMHO I'd rather start a new line that play a tier X 

 

1 - Weak argument because if T9 had no T9, then T9 would be "pointless". If T8 had no T9, T8 would be "pointless" and so on

2 -You've been grinding all your way from T1 to T9. Not having modules to grind isn't a bad thing

3 -The gameplay at T10 isn't much different than at mid tier. As for noobs in T10 premium, what is the difference between a noob in T10 premiums and a noob in T[x] premium ? T10 premiums are either locked behind a grind wall or a "skilled grind wall"

4 - wat 

 

I would rather play a T10 than play something below T8 

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4 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Challenge:

1.  Who cares about no Tier XI

2.  I'd say it's a good thing there's not much additional modules there.  You get your ship and are ready to go right there.  - So you want easy mode

3.  Lower tiers have their trash also.  If anything, the cheaper Premiums in lower tiers will be more accessible for newbs.  Where do you think the new players are? at tier X  Low and mid tiers.  You know the tiers where you Seal Clubbers are trying to victimize.  No seal clubbing is taking a trained captain to a lower tier.  Starting again is not clubbing

4.  More like people can't handle Tier X combat so they run away back to somewhere lower, where they can't be as harshly punished for making stupid mistakes as what happens in Tier X.  Any stupid habits a player has developed as they've gone up the tiers gets harshly punished in Tier X Tier X is a camp fest

- Flashing a broadside in Tier VI you got away with it because most of the BBs there have trouble engaging at 15km.  Do the same in Tier X, you're getting rocked.  Wow, you say 'you' alot.  Saying you is like pointing a finger, be careful, there are 3 pointing back at you.

 

- It's harder to get into a crossfire / focus fire situation in lower tiers because of the shortening of engagement ranges.  Hell, there are mid tier Cruisers where their max gun range is ridiculously short. 

Perth 12.81km max gun range. 

Leander 13.17km. 

Devonshire, a Heavy Cruiser, 14km gun range. 

Boise / NdJ 13.56km. 

Atlanta with AFT is 13.34km. 

BB New Mexico 16.08km for the lulz.

 

The chances of getting into a crossfire / focus fire situation is a lot less the lower in tiers you go, so one can get pretty sloppy in their sailing.

Do the exact same thing at 17km in Tier X, you're in big trouble.  Gun ranges get a lot longer and the capacity for various ships to engage at those distances go up.  Cruisers get more range and must be respected.  Tier VI Aoba and her 14.91km gun range doesn't threaten anyone that positioned badly the way Zao, Henri IV, Veneia, Moskva, Worcester, Hindenburg will.

 

If you want easy mode, Try civ 3 on beginner.

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3 hours ago, AlcatrazNC said:

 

1 - Weak argument because if T9 had no T9, then T9 would be "pointless". If T8 had no T9, T8 would be "pointless" and so on

2 -You've been grinding all your way from T1 to T9. Not having modules to grind isn't a bad thing

3 -The gameplay at T10 isn't much different than at mid tier. As for noobs in T10 premium, what is the difference between a noob in T10 premiums and a noob in T[x] premium ? T10 premiums are either locked behind a grind wall or a "skilled grind wall"

4 - wat 

 

I would rather play a T10 than play something below T8 

What is T9 had no T9 then there would be no T9 supposed to mean?  Something like; If there was no food, there would be no food, so eating would be pointless.   Lol - Best argument ever.  This would work with EVERYTHING.

e.g. i like tier X, because they are tier X, and tier X is really good at tier X.

 

The difference between a tier 8 noob and a tier X noob is obvious, and I'd hardly call 1M FXP a grind wall (or skill wall).  200K coal isn't that hard ether.

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8 hours ago, JimmyTheRealPirate said:

I'm not saying that the enemy team isn't bad, nor that I can't do good in some ships, IE thunderer/conqeror,. HOWEVER, like it or not, this a team based game and having the highest tier be full of players who don't know how to play really diminishes that tier. It doesn't matter if you win or lose, if getting the win or being handed a lose is unsatisfying due to issues like this.

 

Its like playing an MMO. During the leveling process things are going well. Sure, not everyone has the best gear, or know how to play their class 100%, but they are learning as are you. As you level and get better you notice other members of your random parties are also getting better overall, eventually most players know what they are doing and the party functions like a well oiled machine. Then finally, the time arrives - Max level. You deck yourself out with top level gear and join the random dungeon finder. You finally get in, all that hard work paid off now that you get to play with the big boys...AND everyone wipes. Your DPS couldn't pass the DPS check, since none of them included the new max level skills into their rotation, your healer didn't put res on their hot bar, and the tank has no idea how to hold aggro and block attacks. This is what playing t10 feels like now. 

 

On the upside, WoWs is a bit different in the fact that you can go to lower tiers and have more fun while getting more rewards. So T10 can be completely ignored, except for the occasional super container giveaway. 

I think you have an expectation issue. You are assuming tier 10 should be something different than it is, and correlate with the level system of a MMO. It doesn't and it is not meant to since a long time ago. Tier 10 is the place where the devs want you to be ASAP for monetization reasons. Comparison to normal MMO doesn't stand, because of the special monetization scheme of WG titles. 

Tier 10 is just like any other tier in terms of player quality. In fact I would say that given enough time it will become the worst of all as it will attract all the players that cant handle to be in an undertiered ship.

 

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There's no way to stop players failing upwards in this game. Spam enough matches and anyone can get carried to anywhere they want. That's why bots are so popular.

When everyone all end up in T10, the quality of matches has to be diluted. There's no way around it.

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1 hour ago, ArIskandir said:

Tier 10 is just like any other tier in terms of player quality. In fact I would say that given enough time it will become the worst of all as it will attract all the players that cant handle to be in an undertiered ship.

The irony is it will actually be worse for them up there. Once they're permanently toptier, there will be no one else to bail out their mistakes from a higher level, since the pass-on buck stops at T10.

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1 hour ago, ArIskandir said:

In fact I would say that given enough time it will become the worst of all as it will attract all the players that cant handle to be in an undertiered ship.

 

The first time I played a Tier 10 ship of my own (specifically the Salem), I thought to myself: "The good thing about this is that I will always be top tier and can never be bottom tier. The bad part is that I will always be facing Tier 10."

The thing about Tier 10 is that it only takes a million XP to get there, which is a thousand games of 1000 ship XP each (and frequently less). That's not beyond the reach of a mindless windowlicker who never learns anything from their defeats (and even less so their victories). Having failed all the way up to the top, there's nowhere left for them to fail to. And so they accumulate there.

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu

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Tier X is very boring if you ask me. It's all long range engagements until one team starts to overwhelm the other. I have Grosser Kurfurst and Moskva, I could easily get Montana, Venezia, etc but why? In Moskva, I find that when I'm finally in a position to "use" my radar, I'm often subject to a crossfire or in a position to be overwhelmed by fire spam. That's the real problem honestly, fire spam. Tier X lighter ships in general have an incredibly high rate of fire, leaving little chance for escape. Fire damage needs a complete overhaul or maybe a 3-5% chance, not a 20-50% chance in some cases. 

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12 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

Question: If you are playing a T10 ship, isn't it to your advantage that the other tier 10 ships in the match are terrible?

If your enemies are terrible, you can farm them in short order for a victory.

If your allies are terrible, there is more damage for you to farm.

The only bad combo here is if your allies are terrible but the enemy is good, which shouldn't be reason to worry because this scenario isn't a constant and the times when it actually happens is the perfect moment to test yourself.

On games like wows the mm does fir teams to everyone achieve 50% victory.

If his winning rate is much above, he will be matched with lower players to equal both sides.

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14 minutes ago, Felipe_1982 said:

On games like wows the mm does fir teams to everyone achieve 50% victory.

If his winning rate is much above, he will be matched with lower players to equal both sides.

Nope, it doesn't work that way.

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2 hours ago, MnemonScarlet said:

The irony is it will actually be worse for them up there. Once they're permanently toptier, there will be no one else to bail out their mistakes from a higher level, since the pass-on buck stops at T10.

 

1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

The first time I played a Tier 10 ship of my own (specifically the Salem), I thought to myself: "The good thing about this is that I will always be top tier and can never be bottom tier. The bad part is that I will always be facing Tier 10."

The thing about Tier 10 is that it only takes a million XP to get there, which is a thousand games of 1000 ship XP each (and frequently less). That's not beyond the reach of a mindless windowlicker who never learns anything from their defeats (and even less so their victories). Having failed all the way up to the top, there's nowhere left for them to fail to. And so they accumulate there.

Sad but true...

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9 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

It's always fun playing a ship that depends on others spotting for you, and there's nobody left to spot.  

 

That's why I tend to avoid such ships. You just can't rely on unknown teammates.

RN CLs are a good example. Seen it happen so many times, CL is ahead of everyone. Target shows up, CL slows down and smokes. Target disappears, because the CL was the one doing the spotting.

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