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Sabot_100

Best T9 cruiser -revisited

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Old thread asked what is the best T9 cruiser.  Baltimore was one of the candidates. A lot has changed over the years. Still a valid question though. 

For nominations, there need to be categories.

1. Premium

2. Tech Tree

3. Overall (probably the same as Premium)

4. Battle Mode IF that ship really excels, but only in a specific battle mode (Coop or Randoms or Competitive (i.e. ranked))

The ship should be able to stand on its own merits. Not just if pared with the proper team/division mates. 

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2 hours ago, Sabot_100 said:

Old thread asked what is the best T9 cruiser.

Don't know if there can be just one right answer. CLs, CAs, SuperCruisers, Radar Cruisers; best cruiser for doing what? The way it stands it's just to vague a question.

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9 hours ago, Umikami said:

Don't know if there can be just one right answer. CLs, CAs, SuperCruisers, Radar Cruisers; best cruiser for doing what? The way it stands it's just to vague a question.

All those would be factors. The ability to handle most situations and matchups. Easy to exploit strengths.

Don't have the Kron but Alaska would be my top pick for a premium.

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Best Tier IX Cruiser?  Very simple.

Alaska.

Accurate (unlike Kronshtadt), useful shells, special AP bounce angles, deceptively and well protected citadel, RADAR.

She has answers for a lot of problems.

 

IMO, Super Cruisers in Tier IX have rendered the Normal Cruisers there obsolete.  You will especially see this in Tier IX Ranked.

Amusingly, this hasn't happened in Tier X because pretty much everything there is nasty stuff.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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Atago is the best tier IX cruiser - it's also the best tier VIII cruiser, and the second best tier X cruiser (after Hindy - though a case might be made for ranking Venezia at par).

Edited by ddoubletapp1
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On 9/6/2020 at 12:17 PM, ddoubletapp1 said:

Atago is the best tier IX cruiser - it's also the best tier VIII cruiser, and the second best tier X cruiser (after Hindy - though a case might be made for ranking Venezia at par).

why? ATAGO has no smokescreen but very slow gun reload.  It's HP is not as high as a battleship.  However, it's fast and can shoot many torpedoes.  Therefore, ATAGO actually is a light BB at level IV.  When it confronts a group of enemy warships, it dies quickly after being hit several times.

Edited by Charlene_hero
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5 hours ago, Charlene_hero said:

why? ATAGO has no smokescreen but very slow gun reload.  It's HP is not as high as a battleship.  However, it's fast and can shoot many torpedoes.  Therefore, ATAGO actually is a light BB at level IV.  When it confronts a group of enemy warships, it dies quickly after being hit several times.

Ha ha - not exactly true.

Atago confronting a group of enemy warships is exactly where she excells.  Kiting is her specialty (although, given how many roles she can fill, I'd put her forward as probably one of the most versatile ships in the game).

Good range, above average manoucerablility and speed, excellent fire chance, really strong HE alpha strike, and all those Torps with usable angles - a well played Atago is a real match influencer.

I am a solidly average player - but my Atago stats are an anomaly.

192 matches, 63% WR, 2.7K average XP and 69K average damage - Atago is one of the most match influencing ships in the game, regardless of tier spread.

Edited to add: bear in mind that the majority of those 192 matches were done before the tier 8 MM changes, when tier 8 saw tier 10 battles a whole lot more often than they do now.  Atago feasts when bottom tier.

Edited by ddoubletapp1

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  • Best premium: Alaska 
  • Best tech tree: Drake
  • Best overall: Alaska
     

Given the all around poor survivability of Tier 9 cruisers, the Alaska's fantastic armor scheme and Drake's super heal give them a noticeable edge in survivability over most of the other cruisers, which in turn increases their practical damage output.  The Alaska also has radar for added team utility, and the improved AP bounce angles go a long way to overcome some of the inherent disadvantages with 305mm guns.

 

Honorable Mention:  Buffalo 

The Buffalo has the best guns of any Tier 9 cruiser (even including 305s IMO), and is mostly held back by its poor handling which severely hampers its open water survivability.

 

 

Edited by yashma
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On 9/6/2020 at 3:17 PM, ddoubletapp1 said:

Atago is the best tier IX cruiser - it's also the best tier VIII cruiser, and the second best tier X cruiser (after Hindy - though a case might be made for ranking Venezia at par).

Atago is Tier-8, not Tier-9.
Were you perhaps thinking of the Ibuki?

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Atago

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Ibuki

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I've got the Azuma and recently welcomed the Drake.

I don't have other ships to make comparisons with.  So, let's just say I'm fond of the two that I do have.  

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3 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Atago is Tier-8, not Tier-9.
Were you perhaps thinking of the Ibuki?

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Atago

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Ibuki

Sorry - was in full "tongue in cheek" mode, there - should have /s'ed that post!

If I had to pick from the pool of Tier IX cruisers, I believe it would be a close run thing between Alaska and Roon (using enhanced modules on both - enhanced radar for Alaska, and spotter plane or hydro for Roon).

I'm a little surprised Roon hasn't been mentioned - it's very effective at keeping BBs from pushing up with those kiting rear turrets, high fire chance and range.

Edited by ddoubletapp1

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22 minutes ago, ddoubletapp1 said:

Sorry - was in full "tongue in cheek" mode, there - should have /s'ed that post!

If I had to pick from the pool of Tier IX cruisers, I believe it would be a close run thing between Alaska and Roon (using enhanced modules on both - enhanced radar for Alaska, and spotter plane or hydro for Roon).

I'm a little surprised Roon hasn't been mentioned - it's very effective at keeping BBs from pushing up with those kiting rear turrets, high fire chance and range.

No worries.

I've got the ARP Takao, a sister of the Atago.  I enjoy sailing the ship and agree that it is versatile and effective (when not focused by rapid HE or multiple BB's).  Tanking damage is not the forte' of Atago/Takao, though.

Since I don't have Roon or Alaska, can't speak to them.  Nice to read other people's impressions, though.

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I only have 500K FXP saved back up and was hoping to eventually get Alaska while it is still available.  WOWS just sent me a 30% off coupon and a couple thousand free doubloons from crates, so I may just buy some doubloons on a discount and finally get the Alaska.

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On 9/8/2020 at 8:37 AM, yashma said:
  • Best premium: Alaska 
  • Best tech tree: Drake
  • Best overall: Alaska
     

Given the all around poor survivability of Tier 9 cruisers, the Alaska's fantastic armor scheme and Drake's super heal give them a noticeable edge in survivability over most of the other cruisers, which in turn increases their practical damage output.  The Alaska also has radar for added team utility, and the improved AP bounce angles go a long way to overcome some of the inherent disadvantages with 305mm guns.

 

Honorable Mention:  Buffalo 

The Buffalo has the best guns of any Tier 9 cruiser (even including 305s IMO), and is mostly held back by its poor handling which severely hampers its open water survivability.

 

 

I just can't get the Buffalo to work for me.  The poor handling, short range/ballistics and long reload just make it a miserable experience in most games.  The only time I really see it shine is late game when you can single out ships that can't overmatch your bow.  Pretty much every other cruiser can open water kite and has a lot more utility than the Buffalo.  Honestly, I'd rather play the Balti at T9 for the grind since it has a slightly faster reload, and if you have all 4 turrets firing in the Buffalo you're bound to get deleted.

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On 9/21/2020 at 5:49 PM, Jeebu said:

I just can't get the Buffalo to work for me.  The poor handling, short range/ballistics and long reload just make it a miserable experience in most games.  The only time I really see it shine is late game when you can single out ships that can't overmatch your bow.  Pretty much every other cruiser can open water kite and has a lot more utility than the Buffalo.  Honestly, I'd rather play the Balti at T9 for the grind since it has a slightly faster reload, and if you have all 4 turrets firing in the Buffalo you're bound to get deleted.

One of Buffalos problems is that it has been balanced around having 12  guns. That 12 gun broadside has a great alpha. Trying to actually use all 12 guns will very often get you killed so you are typically limited to just 6 guns. So your damage output is pretty meh. It is also a pretty short range gun so you can't do the long range sniping and dodging other cruisers can.

Plus, like all cruisers, the proliferation of big gun BBs that can overmatch cruiser armor can make life difficult as you can't even go bow in. 

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Just now, Sabot_100 said:

One of Buffalos problems is that it has been balanced around having 12  guns. That 12 gun broadside has a great alpha. Trying to actually use all 12 guns will very often get you killed so you are typically limited to just 6 guns. So your damage output is pretty meh. It is also a pretty short range gun so you can't do the long range sniping and dodging other cruisers can.

Plus, like all cruisers, the proliferation of big gun BBs that can overmatch cruiser armor can make life difficult as you can't even go bow in. 

Completely agree.  If you could use range to make use of the 12 guns, it wouldn't be an issue.  German cruisers are without a doubt my favorite, and with fewer guns and less armor, the range they have and the agility allows proper angling and you still get rounds on target.  The Roon gets a ton of hate but I personally love it, especially for open water kiting. But that Buffalo, with 4 turrets with 2 in the rear just isn't favorable for the island hopping strategy... honestly, if it traded 1 rear turret for a quicker reload than the Balti it would be a much better ship.

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43 minutes ago, Jeebu said:

if it traded 1 rear turret for a quicker reload than the Balti it would be a much better ship.

It does seem like both US T9 tech tree ships are kind of a side step to their T8 predecessors instead of a step up. Neither come close to the best T9 tech tree cruiser. They both vie for the basement slot on the WOWS stats.

Is there any reason to play a Buff if you have an Alaska (they can even share the same captain) aside from masochism or enjoying a challenge?

 

I am surprised with the responses to this thread that Alaska beats out  Kronshtadt consistently for best premium. Sigfried is relatively new so not as many have played with or against her.

Drake is the only tech-tree ship that can compete with all the premiums.T9 has definitely been powercrept. Mostly by the premiums.  At one time my Saint Louis was  a pretty hot commodity.

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4 hours ago, Sabot_100 said:

It does seem like both US T9 tech tree ships are kind of a side step to their T8 predecessors instead of a step up. Neither come close to the best T9 tech tree cruiser. They both vie for the basement slot on the WOWS stats.

Is there any reason to play a Buff if you have an Alaska (they can even share the same captain) aside from masochism or enjoying a challenge?

 

I am surprised with the responses to this thread that Alaska beats out  Kronshtadt consistently for best premium. Sigfried is relatively new so not as many have played with or against her.

Drake is the only tech-tree ship that can compete with all the premiums.T9 has definitely been powercrept. Mostly by the premiums.  At one time my Saint Louis was  a pretty hot commodity.

US ships tend to have low server average stats across the board, especially the tech tree. Des Moines is the best tier 10 cruiser but only a few coal ships and nothing from the tech tree have worse stats on wows-numbers.

I'd rather have Buffalo guns than Alaska guns in most situations. Alaska is better if you're citadeling a broadside BB at close range or a broadside cruiser at long range, but Buffalo has a big advantage in damage output otherwise. I think the Alaska hull's advantages make up for it, but it's not 100% clear cut.

Edited by WernerHerzdog

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On 8/31/2020 at 12:33 AM, HamptonRoads said:

According to WOWS stats:

image.thumb.png.77ee361eab26a3e18adcbf9ab5f86ddb.png

I definitely go by wows stats page but what I would do is get a cpl different perspectives...your picture is general population (everyone)....I'd filter to top50%,25%,10%,5% that tells you what the better players do in a ship ....i usually at least filter to top 50%

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A problem with WoWS Stats & Numbers as well as many 3rd party stats sites, though it is very easy to browse, it includes the entire history of the game.  WoWS has changed a lot. A nice little example is Tier IX Super Cruiser Azuma.  Which is why I've been using Maplesyrup for a lot of stat pulls now.  That site uses weekly and quarterly stats.  The problem with Maplesyrup is that the data is "raw" and you have to do a lot of your own sorting, which can be tedious.  But because the data is sorted to more recent eras, the stats are more relevant, accurate.

 

For quite a bit of her history she has that godawful 25mm armor all over her hull.  Meaning pretty much almost every BB she encounters in High Tier, including many from Tier VII, could Overmatch her from any angle and Citadel her to devastating effect.

 

But the IFHE / Armor update a little while back that the game is still reeling from had a critical buff to her... Because WG standardized armor for tiers, Azuma's 25mm deck and upper belt armor got improved to 27mm.  That may sound like nothing, a mere 2mm armor improvement, but in the game of AP Overmatch, it's a big, big deal.  381mm or smaller armed ships can no longer Overmatch her at any angle.  406mm+ armed Battleships are still dangerous, but Azuma is in a better spot now than before defensively.  Considering how numerous 380/381mm armed Battleships are even in High Tier, this is pretty important.

 

That said, recently added Siegfried is a big player now to contest Alaska.  Siegfried has true Battleship firepower with 380mm guns but still having Cruiser accuracy.  She's built tough.  The only thing Alaska has over Siegfried is Radar.  Siegfried will beat up ships better, but Alaska has Radar and that is something that all DDs and ships that rely on Stealth have to account for.  Radar can potentially swing games.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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I never understood the Roon hate either.  One of my favorite tactics was to drive in aggressively at the start of a match, basically broadside to the enemy team.  As soon as I got spotted, start turning out. The enemy couldn’t help but fire at me, revealing their positions. By the time the shells got to me, I was angled and took minimal damage and was now perfectly set up to kite.  Meanwhile, My teammates and I now had plenty of ships to shoot at. The Roon’s armor is one of her strengths and you need to make use of it.

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5 hours ago, SeaGladius said:

I never understood the Roon hate either.  One of my favorite tactics was to drive in aggressively at the start of a match, basically broadside to the enemy team.  As soon as I got spotted, start turning out. The enemy couldn’t help but fire at me, revealing their positions. By the time the shells got to me, I was angled and took minimal damage and was now perfectly set up to kite.  Meanwhile, My teammates and I now had plenty of ships to shoot at. The Roon’s armor is one of her strengths and you need to make use of it.

Roon isn't bad, she's one of the decent normal cruisers in this tier.  But some never liked the Konigsberg style Cruiser arrangement.  That persisted when the German Cruiser Line came out in late 2015 and some still feel that way now.

 

She looks even worse to those guys when you got most of the German Cruisers past Tier VI being normal in arrangement.  Yorck -> Hipper / Premium P.Eugen -> Oddball Roon -> Hindenburg

Even the new Premium German CLs are in normal weapons arrangement:  VIII Mainz and then very recently added VII Munchen.

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Alaska is by far the best followed by Siegfried. It's not really a contest. Alaska has improved pen angles, good concealment, good handling, radar, and decent armor. Siegfried is slightly less versatile, but it has a literal battleship's guns with better accuracy than Alaska does

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