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Helstrem

The randomness of the MM sometimes presents nearly hopeless situations

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This is not a MM whine, just a recount of the battle I did last night.

I haven't played in a bit, but last night I decided to do a Ranked Sprint battle.  I grab a BB thinking that if the queue is DD heavy I can bail and get a DD, but I get placed in a match instantly.  Once in the match one of my teammates says something like "If we win this I rank out, so please let us win."  I look at the rosters to see what ships are in play (I don't run MMM or any other mods) and respond that seeing as our ships are vastly superior all we have to do to win is not do anything stupid.

Rosters:

Musashi (me)
Pommern
Alaska (guy about to rank out)

VS

Alsace
Izumo
Seattle

The battle was about as expected, though Alaska did get hammered by the Alsace or Izumo at one point.  There was basically nothing their BBs could do to our BBs.  The Alsace rushed forward and took the AB cap early by hiding behind an island and from that point on it was completely one sided as the Pommern and my Musashi advanced.  All the Alsace and Izumo could do was fall back or, as I warned the Pommern to watch for, charge and try to ram.  In the end out of the six ships in the match only the Izumo was sunk.  Seattle was entirely a non-factor.

Kinda felt bad for the players on the other team.  Not a single matchup was in their favor.  Musashi is better than Izumo.  Pommern is better than Alsace.  Alaska is better than Seattle.

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Ever think maybe some of that is almost by design to frustrate people?

Ever think that the fact that CVs piss off unicums more than normal players might be by design?

Just keep that in mind.  If it puts you off the game, well, then, so be it.  You have to accept the bad with the good, or walk away.  It's not going to change.  It's part of the monetization strategy.

(I have to point out that while some people act like this is some new thing, I've played a game for over 15 years off and on that is basically a working example of a Skinner box...)

Edited by Kesh_Lives
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It's comical some times, which is why I think they need to add a star per rank for these events, just to short. 

The issue with these matches is that the "smallness" of the map takes away many ships strengths. Not sure there is an easy fix to that.

One game I played radar Neptune and each team had 2 dd's they had an Ibuki. It was over before it started.

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46 minutes ago, Kesh_Lives said:

Ever think maybe some of that is almost by design to frustrate people?

Ever think that the fact that CVs piss off unicums more than normal players might be by design?

Just keep that in mind.  If it puts you off the game, well, then, so be it.  You have to accept the bad with the good, or walk away.  It's not going to change.  It's part of the monetization strategy.

(I have to point out that while some people act like this is some new thing, I've played a game for over 15 years off and on that is basically a working example of a Skinner box...)

The game is changing all the time and sometimes it does get better.

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41 minutes ago, Kesh_Lives said:

Ever think maybe some of that is almost by design to frustrate people?

Ever think that the fact that CVs piss off unicums more than normal players might be by design?

Just keep that in mind.  If it puts you off the game, well, then, so be it.  You have to accept the bad with the good, or walk away.  It's not going to change.  It's part of the monetization strategy.

(I have to point out that while some people act like this is some new thing, I've played a game for over 15 years off and on that is basically a working example of a Skinner box...)

I am not sure what your point is.  It seems rather orthogonal to my OP.

I don't see the need for any hidden levers of maliciousness in order for the teams in the OP to be created.  There were six ships in the match, four BBs and two cruisers.  The configuration of the teams was as likely as any other.  There are, what, six different team configurations available.  If you've ever played a board game you know that 6 sided dice can produce a 1 as easily as a 6, or anything in between and if you call out conspiracy nonsense every time you roll a 1 you're just being "silly".

FWIW, if I had designed the MM to frustrate somebody in this example it would be the Alaska player who was about to rank out, and did rank out due to the match.  Had I been out to foil him or her the teams would have been:

Musashi
Pommern
Seattle

vs

Alsace
Izumo
Alaska

and there you go, Alaska probably gets a loss.

 

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The small size of the teams in Sprint magnify both skill and ship differences.

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MM is random, but what you chose to bring is not.

Yes, this season favored premium brawler ships like Pommern, but also not traditional brawlers like Georgia. The best tech tree ships according to early statistics are: Mogador, Kitakaze, Jutland, Drake, Z-46, Chung Mu, Riga, Saint-Louis, Roon. Most of the top picks are Pommern and Georgia by popularity and Siegfried by win rate. However, keep in mind that most of those ships are technically availabale for resources, which means a significant portion of the players got them from steel, coal etc. and are thus on the better end of the spectrum.

But nevertheless, bringing a squishy cruiser or long-range BB without overmatch potential is just putting yourself at a disadvantage. Why bring a Seattle, or Neptune? Those things don't survive a brawl with a BB and don't have enough time or cover to farm in a 3v3. It is a different meta and ships are not balanced around 1v1 or 3v3 but 12v12 on large maps. So some ships will just not work here.

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I had a gut punch game the first time I was within 1 star of ranking out.  Me a 49% win rate and two teammates less than 41%.  Our opponents?  Three members of the same clan who sync dropped and had a 55% win rate.  It was a blowout.

The nice part is the games are so short it’s easy to move on and recover.

Ship matching was interesting and I thought added some variety.  Saw mostly 1 cruiser/2 BBs but a few with one of each, even a 2 cruiser/1DD.

 

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Okay, but what exactly beats a Musashi at T9?

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1 hour ago, MrDeaf said:

Okay, but what exactly beats a Musashi at T9?

Any well positioned BB.

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I've had several random matches where by looking at the loading screen I could tell that our team, sometimes opposing team, had a clear advantage just by the ships.  It still comes down to the skill of players but having a ship that is, based on its characteristics, a better ship still ends up making a match more challenging against a player who isn't as skilled.

I've had random matches where an enemy team was loaded up on radar cruisers while our own team had none and vice versa.  It tends to be a lop sided battle.  It doesn't mean my teams haven't won battles with no radar ships vs a team that did but it wasn't exactly easy.

1 hour ago, MrDeaf said:

Okay, but what exactly beats a Musashi at T9?

 

1 hour ago, Rollingonit said:

Torp DDs

 

3 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

Any well positioned BB.

If we assume that a Musashi is going against an opponent with equal skill.  These two solutions, although do work and I agree with, are not as easy as said.  A Musashi as top tier is very strong to the point of almost being OP. 

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26 minutes ago, HeadSplit120 said:

If we assume that a Musashi is going against an opponent with equal skill.  These two solutions, although do work and I agree with, are not as easy as said.  A Musashi as top tier is very strong to the point of almost being OP. 

I totally agree. That ship never should have been introduced into the game. A total dev screw-up.

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34 minutes ago, StudebacherHoch said:

"The randomness of the MM sometimes presents nearly hopeless situations"

Did he say "randomness"?

~wiggling finger in ear~

OK, my understanding of how the MM works is that first it builds one team and then, as more ships show up in the queue, it assembles a team of ships that match tier and type wise.  If the wait time becomes more than 3 minutes some rules get dropped and if it becomes more than 5 minutes the team size rule gets dropped and it throws whatever it has into a match.

For this battle, given I was pulled into it instantly, that would mean the Izumo, Alsace and Seattle got in the queue first and then the Pommern and Alaska were grabbed to form the other team, then the MM waited for another BB to enter the queue and when my Musashi showed up it finished the second team and off we went.

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I think if the player knows their ship well, and gets in a good position they can make it work. In the OP example, that team did not work well together.

I primarily used Seattle & Donskoi, and there are a lot of people talking about “why would you take Seattle” etc. It did extremely well for me with its high RoF, and so did Donskoi. Sank all 3 reds at least once with each ship.

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3 hours ago, Taichunger said:

I totally agree. That ship never should have been introduced into the game. A total dev screw-up.

Pom is right there as as a screw up too.

A Musashi will lose to Pom straight up.

That's WG, putting out OP ships to piss off everyone that doesn't have it.

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5 hours ago, MrDeaf said:

Okay, but what exactly beats a Musashi at T9?

I can crit a Yammy or Mussy at 4 Km with a Pommern. The problem is getting that close, that and torps. Its not going anywhere soon enough to get away.

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