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Herr_Reitz

Secondaries - OP or just fine?

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Well I see Zoup is in love with the Pommern. Taking every secondary option he could... he says "one of the best premiums of the year". In fact, he is pushing it so much you'd think he was a new ship sales person. 

Which makes me wonder - where's the outcry from cruisers, destroyers about such secondaries? Sure, I know German BBs have, at the top of the stack, the best secondaries or at least some of the best. 

Are the cruisers/destroyers okay with such OP secondaries? :cap_haloween:

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Pommern has the same hull, including secondary battery, as FdG. And like Tirpitz and the ugly sisters, her torpedoes are a very situational weapon due to their short range and fragility. So, the question is if Pommern has the same secondary potential as FdG, why hasn’t everyone been raving about FdG’s secondaries? Pommern is simply the new shiny. Give it a couple months and no one will think she’s anything special.

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50 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Well I see Zoup is in love with the Pommern. Taking every secondary option he could... he says "one of the best premiums of the year". In fact, he is pushing it so much you'd think he was a new ship sales person. 

Which makes me wonder - where's the outcry from cruisers, destroyers about such secondaries? Sure, I know German BBs have, at the top of the stack, the best secondaries or at least some of the best. 

Are the cruisers/destroyers okay with such OP secondaries? :cap_haloween:

Do I think they can be strong of course...but same way as I know cvs are strong and you play them , we both know their capabilities. Both can be counterplayed.....Not beating up cvs just saying don't throw rocks from a glass house,lol

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3 minutes ago, Meta_Man said:

Do I think they can be strong of course...but same way as I know cvs are strong and you play them , we both know their capabilities. Both can be counterplayed.....Not beating up cvs just saying don't throw rocks from a glass house,lol

Well it sort of struck me funny, in a way I guess, that's why it was funny. I've experienced those secondaries in situations where you regretted them in a surface ship, but I can't recall the last time anyone started a thread against them as being OP. Which was what struck me in a strange way. 

In fact or observation, I believe I've seen quite the contrary. Seems more people are for 'em than against them. 

On a completely different subject - maybe - Tier 9 sprint starts soon. Will you be putting videos up for your battles? 

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8 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Well it sort of struck me funny, in a way I guess, that's why it was funny. I've experienced those secondaries in situations where you regretted them in a surface ship, but I can't recall the last time anyone started a thread against them as being OP. Which was what struck me in a strange way. 

In fact or observation, I believe I've seen quite the contrary. Seems more people are for 'em than against them. 

On a completely different subject - maybe - Tier 9 sprint starts soon. Will you be putting videos up for your battles? 

Hoping to, not sure yet. My clan is mostly newer players so not sure we will have enough tier 9 players to have divisions

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1 hour ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Well I see Zoup is in love with the Pommern. Taking every secondary option he could... he says "one of the best premiums of the year". In fact, he is pushing it so much you'd think he was a new ship sales person. 

Which makes me wonder - where's the outcry from cruisers, destroyers about such secondaries? Sure, I know German BBs have, at the top of the stack, the best secondaries or at least some of the best. 

Are the cruisers/destroyers okay with such OP secondaries? :cap_haloween:

They're fine IMO.

DD's have enough issues with CV spotting and incoming fire from multiple ships - they should know to stay clear of possible secondary specced ships (like they need to keep clear of radar - just another thing).

Cruisers have the range and speed to kite away and burn the BB. If the BB is in a position to use secondaries well, then it's either because the enemy failed to address him when he got in range, or the secondary spec ship's team is well in the lead and pushing.

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secondaries cost BB's 8 points - or 12 with folks who go ifhe - that cost is obscene(manual secondaries should have a lower cost imho or just flat up buff accuracy on ALL secondary guns, not just a single target) (aft for bb's is also too costly - at least it used to extend AA range, now the aft AA buff is trash)

the simple counter is staying 11.5km back meaning those 12 pts the secondary BB spent are completely wasted, and the BB is regretting his life choices to not spec survival 

I personally have a lot of fun going secondary - but it is kind of meme build, and very situational counting on your enemy to make a mistake and try face you directly - i have been playing long enough i have a couple spare 19 pt German captains so can switch builds depending on my mood :) 

Even a ship like Pommern with her less accurate shotgun,  speccing fire prevention and the accuracy modules to be more effective at medium ranges - sub 15km is probably a more consistent option - can still go aft for long range secondaries, but in most fights, even playing smart, full secondaries is often not the most rewarding, and requires the right map, spawn point & solid situational awareness and practice to do well - I will not lie though - Absolutely Glorious silly fun when you get into "That Perfect Match" though  

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When the 150s actually connect with DDs it’s pretty great. I’ve been pleasantly surprised with Pommern as far as fun factor. The 12 guns offer a little more flexibility in using HE while her tankiness allows her to survive. The secondaries are fun but you have to know when to push with them.

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I went hybrid with mine, too expensive for a full secondary build and you need fire prevention skill to not burn everywhere at once. Seems like a fun ship. I have landed some citadels with it. It feels tanky too.

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German secondaries aren't that scary in most scenarios. If you keep an eye on the minimap it's fairly easy to stay out of their range, which forces them to either not use the secondaries or try to push in at the risk of overextending (and getting farmed down hard). Their typically below average concealment plays into this.

Those that I'd be afraid of include either Odin because she is stealthy enough to not give you much of a window, or Massachusetts because that thing has absurdly accurate secondaries and can afford to get fairly close.

But I find it good that secondaries are not OP by any means. They are auto-aim weapons that require a lot less input from the player, if a ship was capable of dealing massive damage with those on a consistent basis the ship would be designed in a wrong way.

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I have Pommern, and ran a full secondary build (no IFHE) for the first 40 or so games and was thoroughly unimpressed.  There were so few situations at t9/10 where the secondaries made a significant impact on my performance that it just wasn't worth the 8 points.  That and being in range to use them meant that every ship on the other team was shooting at me.  I have since switched to a survivability/main battery build and the results have been MUCH better.  I have also started mixing HE into my ammo selection and that was an eye-opener.  Shooting 12 rifles worth of HE at a DD is going to make him think twice way more than those secondaries ever would.

I don't really agree with Zoup's assessment of Pommern.  She's not a bad ship, but its only August and I'm not convinced that its the best premium of 2020, nor that a full secondary build is the way to go with her.

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I have no problems with them. Secondary builds are a huge investment and significantly reduce the BB's ability to perform in the standard meta (medium/medium-far range), so they have to gain something somewhere. Also like AA ships, there are only a handful of BBs capable of even having good secondaries. 

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Honestly, most of the time, secondaries are pretty weak. And in the case of German BBs, you actually have to show a great deal of broadside to get many of them into the fight. And you need 8 points in captain skills to even make them decent enough to have a chance to hit DDs even some of the time.

If anything, secondaries are underpowered, not overpowered. This is why most people consider Sec spec to be a meme build most of the time.

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On 8/18/2020 at 9:11 AM, Herr_Reitz said:

Well I see Zoup is in love with the Pommern. Taking every secondary option he could... he says "one of the best premiums of the year". In fact, he is pushing it so much you'd think he was a new ship sales person. 

Which makes me wonder - where's the outcry from cruisers, destroyers about such secondaries? Sure, I know German BBs have, at the top of the stack, the best secondaries or at least some of the best. 

Are the cruisers/destroyers okay with such OP secondaries? :cap_haloween:

DD captains have just gotten used to being the targets of secondaries with ranges that match anything we've got (both torps and guns), so we just sigh and deal with it.

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