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wolfkind252

No more operation of the week

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A bad day in coop is still better that that operation of the week, I thought, the random rejects that come into coop were bad op of the week is a total waste of time ,theirs even LESS people in there with a clue

Edited by wolfkind252
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New port is known to be the worst, by far.  All the other's, you get some potato pugs but they are doable.  I wish WG would do something about this one. 

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new port is all about avoiding the damn third wave from reaching the circle,but people just shutdown the brain in this specific part.

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36 minutes ago, wolfkind252 said:

A bad day in coop is still better that that operation of the week, I thought, the random rejects that come into coop were bad op of the week is a total waste of time ,theirs even LESS people in there with a clue

Everybody that knows Ops hates Newport.  A really good team, if they can be motivated to play it, can beat it like a bad stepchild.  But random pick-up teams must be scary.  And Ops yields on a FAIL are even worse than Co-op.  Wait until next week.

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2 hours ago, Cruxdei said:

new port is all about avoiding the damn third wave from reaching the circle,but people just shutdown the brain in this specific part.

Oh wait when they fail to stop the 1st wave from reaching the circle.

 

From that point on it's best to just yolo charge and ram a ship cause you ain't winning that scenario when the 1st wave crosses the circle.

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1 hour ago, iDuckman said:

Everybody that knows Ops hates Newport.  A really good team, if they can be motivated to play it, can beat it like a bad stepchild.  But random pick-up teams must be scary.  And Ops yields on a FAIL are even worse than Co-op.  Wait until next week.

Not everybody. I used to hate on it but now I'm a huge fan of Newport, especially with pubbies. I get to take my DDs out and go crazy. Fushun, Farra, and Mona are all capable of racking up +200k matches on a reg basis. If the team sucks, oh well I still have fun.

 @Taichunger and I finished up the night with a run through Newport with 5 pubbies. We pulled off a 5 star losing only one ship.

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For the record, I love Newport, and the more bad players that PUG it means more opportunity for chasing damage records.  Only thing that gets to me is when people at the end let the friendly ship count drop below three just to try to get one more kill...like can't you read that you dying actually loses a star?

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8 hours ago, Cruxdei said:

new port is all about avoiding the damn third wave from reaching the circle,but people just shutdown the brain in this specific part.

The game design of operation defense of newport is extremely poor.

You have multiple waves of ships that beeline toward their objective that is directly behind the player.
In game design, you're not supposed to make the AI go directly towards the player. Going directly towards the player provides the smallest hit profile possible and people are HORRIBLE at guessing how fast something is closing in on them. So not only do you have a hard to hit target, it's really hard to line up the shots and you don't get many, because they bots are wasting no time loitering about.

Most of the AI ships have torpedoes mounted. Now, this wouldn't be a problem if the player had room to maneuver or use obstacles to not get dumped on, but they don't.
Compounding this problem is that players only get to use T6 ships. The vast majority of T6 BBs have atrocious speed along with atrocious turret traverse. These issues wouldn't be a problem if the bots spawned from right to left or left to right, but their spawns are randomized.

The problem with DDs is obvious. They cannot setup in positions to get the most effect out of their torpedoes, because bots beeline directly towards the objective and thus the player. Anyone who has played a DD knows it's really bad to try and hit ships that are bow on towards you.

For cruisers, it's simply a matter of not having good enough cover, while also not having good enough healing from the repair ship.

 

So, to reiterate, the AI does what it shouldn't do, beeline towards the player with utmost efficiency. The player gets an awful position to defend from, it's cramped and doesn't have the right kind of cover. The player's equipment is equally awful for the job and they don't receive adequate aid from friendly AI.

 

Did an intern design this operation? I would have to guess, yes.

Edited by MrDeaf
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11 hours ago, wolfkind252 said:

A bad day in coop is still better that that operation of the week, I thought, the random rejects that come into coop were bad op of the week is a total waste of time ,theirs even LESS people in there with a clue

You're going to have to unpack that post a little. 

What do you mean "no more operation of the week"?  Are you just disgusted right now, or are you hinting at something you think WG is going to do? 

 

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2 hours ago, MrDeaf said:

The game design of operation defense of newport is extremely poor.

You have multiple waves of ships that beeline toward their objective that is directly behind the player.
In game design, you're not supposed to make the AI go directly towards the player. Going directly towards the player provides the smallest hit profile possible and people are HORRIBLE at guessing how fast something is closing in on them. So not only do you have a hard to hit target, it's really hard to line up the shots and you don't get many, because they bots are wasting no time loitering about.

Most of the AI ships have torpedoes mounted. Now, this wouldn't be a problem if the player had room to maneuver or use obstacles to not get dumped on, but they don't.
Compounding this problem is that players only get to use T6 ships. The vast majority of T6 BBs have atrocious speed along with atrocious turret traverse. These issues wouldn't be a problem if the bots spawned from right to left or left to right, but their spawns are randomized.

The problem with DDs is obvious. They cannot setup in positions to get the most effect out of their torpedoes, because bots beeline directly towards the objective and thus the player. Anyone who has played a DD knows it's really bad to try and hit ships that are bow on towards you.

For cruisers, it's simply a matter of not having good enough cover, while also not having good enough healing from the repair ship.

 

So, to reiterate, the AI does what it shouldn't do, beeline towards the player with utmost efficiency. The player gets an awful position to defend from, it's cramped and doesn't have the right kind of cover. The player's equipment is equally awful for the job and they don't receive adequate aid from friendly AI.

 

Did an intern design this operation? I would have to guess, yes.

There's also the issue that total failure can occur based on a single very early under-performance.  

Let even a single bot in the first wave cross an unmarked line on the map (at least it wasn't marked last time I subjected myself to Defeat at Newport) and you get the botpocolypse dumped on the team, leaving them to suffer a long slow zero-star loss because of that one moment right at the start. 

The fact that it's tier VI has been on my mind for a long time, and for the same reasons -- the step from VI to VII isn't just about raw firepower, there's a notable increase in flexibility and well-rounded-ness.   

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2 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

You're going to have to unpack that post a little. 

What do you mean "no more operation of the week"?  Are you just disgusted right now, or are you hinting at something you think WG is going to do?

I would bet he's had enough of Operations.  As a good many of us are disgusted because of the negative changes to their economy; removals from play; and, out right neglect shown to those still in rotation..

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Newport I have sunk 8 ships with Leander and earned like two awards, for sinking them. Those are on good days.

The first group is easily engaged on the right. Crits easy etc. The middle group is a problem but can be stopped. The coordination fails when the left group arrives. If they touch the line then the main attack comes with like 5 minutes to go. And that just stacks problems. Inside the Batteries become torpedo city at that point and chaos.

Rotating to repair ships to heal is the other challenge, I usually do it when shot down 1/3 health and heal by the time I see the second or third group coming. Hold the line is key. If I see everyone bunched on right for example when second and third arrive then they will not displace and set up in middle or left in time and the main attack will start.

I don't mind winning, but I can understand how easy it is to lose it when the pick up team fractures. I have been playing these ops for a few years I guess by now and frankly we can put in some more, there is a endless variety of navy situations to build in there. I see ops as a source of extra credits as income. The limitations on Ops for me is trapped in VI. We need to get other tiers in there as well. Some of the VI's are inadequate firepower when faced with barbarian hordes.

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I love when you're going for the repair ship because the bots are on the stink on you know what, and that damned repair ship decides its time to go on its tour of the harbor and you have to chase that f'ing thing. :Smile-angry:

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46 minutes ago, xHeavy said:

Newport I have sunk 8 ships with Leander and earned like two awards, for sinking them. Those are on good days.

The first group is easily engaged on the right. Crits easy etc. The middle group is a problem but can be stopped. The coordination fails when the left group arrives. If they touch the line then the main attack comes with like 5 minutes to go. And that just stacks problems. Inside the Batteries become torpedo city at that point and chaos.

Rotating to repair ships to heal is the other challenge, I usually do it when shot down 1/3 health and heal by the time I see the second or third group coming. Hold the line is key. If I see everyone bunched on right for example when second and third arrive then they will not displace and set up in middle or left in time and the main attack will start.

I don't mind winning, but I can understand how easy it is to lose it when the pick up team fractures. I have been playing these ops for a few years I guess by now and frankly we can put in some more, there is a endless variety of navy situations to build in there. I see ops as a source of extra credits as income. The limitations on Ops for me is trapped in VI. We need to get other tiers in there as well. Some of the VI's are inadequate firepower when faced with barbarian hordes.

Or inadequate durability.

Or inadequate mobility. 

 

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10 hours ago, Ares1967 said:

Not everybody.

Well!  I may have to re-think the Op.  "Best practices of the Pros from Dover" in Narai seems to have changed, too.

3 hours ago, MrDeaf said:

DDs ... cannot setup in positions

I presume that Ares, like Lightninger, leaves the harbor to exploit the enemy's single-minded rush toward it.  All those ships sailing straight...

1 hour ago, xHeavy said:

Rotating to repair ships to heal is the other challenge,

Ah yes.  That's another rarely mentioned nerf.  The repair ships heal very slowly now, and are just as likely to move out from under you as to stay docked.  In a BB or badly damaged early on, I just ignore them.  Taking yourself out of the fight for that long is equivalent to getting sunk.

Edited by iDuckman

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29 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

Well!  I may have to re-think the Op.  "Best practices of the Pros from Dover" in Narai seems to have changed, too.

I presume that Ares, like Lightninger, leaves the harbor to exploit the enemy's single-minded rush toward it.  All those ships sailing straight...

Ah yes.  That's another rarely mentioned nerf.  The repair ships heal very slowly now, and are just as likely to move out from under you as to stay docked.  In a BB or badly damaged early on, I just ignore them.  Taking yourself out of the fight for that long is equivalent to getting sunk.

Not necessarily sir, I noticed the repair is nerfed and yes I noticed Mr Fix it wants out. So what I do is manuver to not only block in Mr Fix it at his bow by T and also orient the guns for the second wave coming into range.

Then apply firepower under smoke while Mr Fix it bubbles around the blockage.

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2 hours ago, KilljoyCutter said:

You're going to have to unpack that post a little. 

What do you mean "no more operation of the week"?  Are you just disgusted right now, or are you hinting at something you think WG is going to do? 

 

No...she's just pissed off.I dont much care for "destruction of naval station newport" myself.

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16 hours ago, Vader_Sama said:

Oh wait when they fail to stop the 1st wave from reaching the circle.

I experienced this for the first time last week. Half the team managed to put themselves into positions where they couldn't spot or shoot at the approaching bots.. A new low for WoWs.

 

9 hours ago, MrDeaf said:

So, to reiterate, the AI does what it shouldn't do, beeline towards the player with utmost efficiency. The player gets an awful position to defend from, it's cramped and doesn't have the right kind of cover. The player's equipment is equally awful for the job and they don't receive adequate aid from friendly AI.

Don't forget that the bot ships seem to ignore players and target the installations as soon as they pass the defense line, making it even harder to get something out of the operation once a couple of player ships have been sunk.  (This happens a lot as there's nearly always one or two that just have to charge out to fight the bots broadside on)

 

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8 hours ago, KilljoyCutter said:

You're going to have to unpack that post a little. 

What do you mean "no more operation of the week"?  Are you just disgusted right now, or are you hinting at something you think WG is going to do? 

 

I mean I am NOT playing that stupid arena anymore, unless I am with somebody that I have as a friend, Or another NEMO

Edited by wolfkind252

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13 hours ago, MrDeaf said:

The problem with DDs is obvious. They cannot setup in positions to get the most effect out of their torpedoes, because bots beeline directly towards the objective and thus the player. Anyone who has played a DD knows it's really bad to try and hit ships that are bow on towards you. 

 

 You nailed it. Its really hard for a DD to use torps in Newport. :Smile_trollface:

DD's have speed and stealth.

Know the Op. Learn the spawn order, what ships will spawn in each wave, and their normal route.

Know your ship. Smoke duration and reset. Torp range and reload, and your own detection range.

Know the map. Where to set up to get get your torps off and have a safe retreat.

Know when to launch. Never launch just because a target is in range. You want the torps to reach the target when its as near 90 degrees to the torp path as you can get. That way the target can't turn in or away. You MUST use the mini-map to do this corrrectly.

 Do it right and the torps practically land themselves.

10 hours ago, iDuckman said:

I presume that Ares, like Lightninger, leaves the harbor to exploit the enemy's single-minded rush toward it.  All those ships sailing straight...

Bingo

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