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Krocts

Americans bb are worth it?

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I was playing with the German bb line, I didn't really like playing with them, I stopped at t6 .. So I went to play with the Americans, I'm at t5 and I thought it was a lot of fun, I really liked it ..
But I see many saying that the American line is bad, it only pays to play with the Germans.

Is it worth playing with Americans or not?

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Like most lines, the best ship is at the end, (Montana.)

As many will likely say though, they have no screamingly bad faults, but neither do they have any amazing advantages. USN battleships are so painfully average it’s almost a meme.

They aren’t *bad,* but it also isn’t hard to find another battleship, especially one of the newer ones, that does individual things better.

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If you don't think New York is hot garbage then you might as well stick with the USN line since it only really gets better from there, most people will tell you USN BBs start being fun at T8 but if you don't hate playing slow standards then more power to you.  One caveat that I'd offer up that isn't immediately apparent is that they are remarkably fragile. North Carolina gets punished HEAVILY if you show even a sliver of broadside, and Iowa felt less tanky than my cruisers like Donskoi. I haven't purchased Montana yet but I've seen plenty of them get devstruck so I imagine it too doesn't take punishment well. I suppose they do get an improved heal to make up for it but they do very poorly under sustained fire. 

In terms of what the other lines do;

French BBs rely on high gun count and speed, but have very low caliber guns that only perform well if you have excellent positioning or the enemy misplays. They are super fragile and rely on their speed to survive as they have neither a good heal nor respectable armor. Republique flips the gun situation around by having only 8 431mm guns at T10, but with a very fast reload. Probably not the most beginner friendly line at high tiers, but Normandie is hands down my favorite battleship in the entire game and easily worth the grind to T6.

German BBs rely on being very durable and having a hydroacoustic search to allow them to push in and fight at close ranges ('brawling"), but are ultimately a mixed bag as their thick armor means they don't take massive citadel damage or HE like other BBs, but they do tend to take consistently heavy damage from AP. Their main guns also often leave something to be desired, and while secondary memes can be amusing once you reach Bismarck they're not even necessarily the best at doing that (and the game knowledge to use a secondary build BB isn't something you necessarily pick up at T8 of your first BB line)

Japanese BBs are a bit hard for me to describe. They're kinda all over the place. Some of them are fast and agile, some of them have great guns, etc. I think they mostly rely on accurate semi-long range gunnery, with Yamato being the truly special Japanese battleship that can overmatch a ton of armor which allows you to punish other battleships in a way truly unique to Japanese BBs.

British BBs are super fragile HE spammers that have excellent conceal and rely on being able to disengage to heal ridiculous amounts of their HP back when they get low. They don't get access to this super heal until tier 9, and while the HE spamming playstyle is rather straight forward and a little brain dead they're relatively squishy with mediocre gun calibers at T7 and T8. Think of them a little like giant cruisers with a ton of sustain if you don't get burst down.

USSR BBs are super tanky with extremely reliable and hard hitting high velocity guns, with the trade off being their ENORMOUS turning circles and (theoretically) vulnerable citadels. They punish mistakes heavily, both enemies making mistakes and you making mistakes. They also have a limited damage control which is great for taking sustained fire but will see you burning to death helplessly late-game.

 

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1 hour ago, Krocts said:

I was playing with the German bb line, I didn't really like playing with them, I stopped at t6 .. So I went to play with the Americans, I'm at t5 and I thought it was a lot of fun, I really liked it ..
But I see many saying that the American line is bad, it only pays to play with the Germans.

Is it worth playing with Americans or not?

In my experience, yes. The Colorado, NC, Iowa, and Montana are four of my favourite ships I've ever played. They all hit extremely hard and can take a few in return.

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2 hours ago, Krocts said:

I was playing with the German bb line, I didn't really like playing with them, I stopped at t6 .. So I went to play with the Americans, I'm at t5 and I thought it was a lot of fun, I really liked it ..
But I see many saying that the American line is bad, it only pays to play with the Germans.

Is it worth playing with Americans or not?

One of the main complaints about US BBs is the speed...if you are at the T5 & are having fun then the speed is probably not a problem for you & you should like the line fairly OK...but that speed becomes more of a problem in the mid tiers when other BB lines can run circles around you so beware of that as you progress.

As for the German BB line...the T7 Gneis gets torps (only tech tree ship that does) & is worth the rest of the T6 grind just for the lols of being able to torp out DDs on occasion (& it has the speed & rudder shift...if you take the upgrade for the rudder shift...to make it easier than it would seem...as long as you stay at full speed going into the maneuvers for it for easier dodging of the return torps. Not necessarily something you want to attempt to do on a regular basis but the opportunity does present itself occasionally & is quite fun.

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I see no problem with the speed of Americans. What I'm doing is playing more with the Americans than with the Germans.

- Americans: further back and without showing the side.
- Germans: more advanced.

is it good to do that? am i playing right?

Edited by Krocts

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12 hours ago, ComradeTsushima said:

If you don't think New York is hot garbage then you might as well stick with the USN line since it only really gets better from there.

Pretty much this. Even if you do think New York is hot garbage (which it is), it's still worth persevering to tier 8 and beyond. But boy, are you gonna rage all the way there. North Carolina is remarkably well-rounded and fun even today, amidst all the power creep. This is because it comes from a time when WG's game design cared about actual balance and did not rely on gimmicks. Iowa is perfectly adequate at tier 9, it's just lost some of its luster since Missouri exists and is pretty much straight up better because the radar allows it to make risky plays that most other battleships can't. Montana is still Montana and comfortably does Montana things like chunking enemy battleships for 25-30k per salvo and straight up deleting cruisers from play.

--Helms

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it seems that the accuracy of the Germans is horrible, Bayern have few cannons and lose half at sea (or it may be my lack of skill: D) and American accuracy looks good

Edited by Krocts

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1 hour ago, Krocts said:

it seems that the accuracy of the Germans is horrible, Bayern have few cannons and lose half at sea (or it may be my lack of skill: D) and American accuracy looks good

Bayern is the wurst. Gneisenau can be better, but they're not accurate ships. They're tanking ships.

 

USN BB's, the line in the game now, is a soild line for the most part. I'm at NC, and I'm finding her somewhat annoying to use, but once you get past New York, the USN BB's are quite soild.

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1 hour ago, Krocts said:

it seems that the accuracy of the Germans is horrible, Bayern have few cannons and lose half at sea (or it may be my lack of skill: D) and American accuracy looks good

German accuracy being bad is mostly an old meme from back when they actually had the worst accuracy formula in the game. Now they use the same formula as American BBs (and are arguably more accurate at lower tiers because they can use ASM1 for -7% dispersion and American BBs cannot) but you'll notice the placebo effect that Americans are "more accurate" because they are short pudgy ships with all of the guns next to each other and German BBs like Bayern have the guns spread out over the length of the ship. Bayern has better accuracy than New York (and significantly better than New Mexico) but the lower gun count and spread out guns means you notice bad dispersion more. It's not until Colorado that American BBs actually become more accurate then Germans, but German BBs are no longer the super inaccurate ships they used to be.

That said American ships do get way better gun range but I find anything over 20km on a BB is usually excessive. If you can hit someone who isn't sailing in a straight line at 26KM in a North Carolina then you can probably literally see the future. You're also probably best off playing Japanese BBs if you want to snipe from max range. The ideal range for a USN BB is probably around 15-18km, 15km against cruisers and 18km against battleships. Any closer than that and you better have a good plan for what you're doing.

Finally if you're losing your guns often make sure you have Main Armaments Modification 1 installed on your ship. You'll still lose turrets occasionally but it seriously boosts their survivability for a very small investment. Other good modifications for Battleships are Damage Control System Modification 1,  Aiming System Modification 1 (Artillery Plotting Room Modification 1 on USN BBs) and either Damage Control System Modification 2 if you want more durability or Steering Gears Modification 1 if you want to be able to turn faster. Upgrade modules for ships are important for getting the most out of them and are worth the credits spent on them once you're past tier 4. Once you reach higher tiers (T8+) they're pretty much mandatory to get the most out of your ship.

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If you are talking about the discussions on the forums, most of them are related to the new USN BB line split; ships that are not released yet.

Most of the existing (ingame) USN BB are solid ships. 

Edited by Rollingonit

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Ok

I thank everyone for their help.

Another question .. is it possible to give citadel to Germans? with bayern it is difficult: D

Edited by Krocts

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2 hours ago, Krocts said:

Ok

I thank everyone for their help.

Another question .. is it possible to give citadel to Germans? with bayern it is difficult: D

Citadeling German BB's is difficult due to their turtle back armor preventing shells from reaching the citadel in most cases. It is possible, just not likely. Usually at longer ranges, where the shells come in at a steeper angle and go thru the turtleback rather than bouncing off it

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4 minutes ago, 7_3_PowerStroke said:

Citadeling German BB's is difficult due to their turtle back armor preventing shells from reaching the citadel in most cases. It is possible, just not likely. Usually at longer ranges, where the shells come in at a steeper angle and go thru the turtleback rather than bouncing off it

I'm saying hitting enemy citadels using German ships, I never made it using Bayern

Edited by Krocts

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2 hours ago, Krocts said:

I'm saying hitting enemy citadels using German ships, I never made it using Bayern

It happens. Just your aim and German (in)accuracy

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The Russian BB line is objectively superior to the USN line. Magic turrets, magic dispersion, magic ballistics, better equipment selection, much better armor, ice breaker bow, resilient to HE spam, etc. They virtually have no weaknesses barring a raised citadel (woo -_-). 

That whole line seems to perform one tier higher than it actually is, especially tier 7 and up. Kremlin is a tier 11 ship, change my mind.

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9 hours ago, ANDROMADA said:

The Russian BB line is objectively superior to the USN line. Magic turrets, magic dispersion, magic ballistics, better equipment selection, much better armor, ice breaker bow, resilient to HE spam, etc. They virtually have no weaknesses barring a raised citadel (woo -_-). 

That whole line seems to perform one tier higher than it actually is, especially tier 7 and up. Kremlin is a tier 11 ship, change my mind.

Why try to change your mind when you're right?

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7 minutes ago, Krocts said:

Are Russian bb really better than Americans?

In almost every stat category, yes. They often are said to be citadel prone but generally have the tools to avoid showing side and doing/tanking lots of damage when angled.

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19 hours ago, Krocts said:

What to do now? Americans? Germans? Russians?

Aside from playing them for their historical significance and extensive combat history, American battleships really aren't all that great save for Montana (the one ship never actually built), and close behind that, the North Carolina.  The problem you'll find with American battleships is that they lack tools that players can really capitalize on to make significant plays.  They're just kinda... average.  Their artillery isn't all that great, their armor isn't that great, their speed isn't any better than everyone else.  At least with other lines you get something that you can really take advantage of, but not the USN.

German battleships can be wildly fun and frustrating at the same time.  The ships themselves are pretty darn strong, but they perform best in close quarter combat, which tends to be the death knell of most players.  They also have the worst artillery performance across the board.  Strong mental discipline, good map awareness, and solid decision making are the key to playing German battleships.  And for some players, that's just too much work.

Russian battleships are excellent because the mechanics behind them allow players to very, very reliably capitalize on their strengths:  High penetration and accurate artillery, superb forward-facing armor profiles, and excellent firing angles.  Sure, they're most vulnerable when broadside, but what battleship isn't?  The bottom line is that once you start to really understand battleships as a class, you realize they're not strong because of Russian bias, they're strong because there are no surprises when playing them. 

The Sinop, Vladivostok, Soyuz, and Kremlin are all also the same exact ship lol.

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56 minutes ago, Krocts said:

what tips do you have for playing with the Russians?

Tech Tree RU Battleships' gunnery excels in 14km and under.  So much so that being spotted as a DD in that engagement bracket is asking to get blapped by RU BBs.  Past that the accuracy starts getting wonkier for the Line.

 

Contrary to stupid claims of "Russian Bias" and even stupider claims that "Russian Battleships have replaced Germans as Brawlers," you don't want to brawl in short ranges despite the improved accuracy.

- They have very exposed citadels.  Get caught on the sides, which can realistically happen in a brawl / knife fight, you're getting deleted hard.

- Russian BB Line maneuverability sucks ***:  They have good rudder shift, but their turning circle radius is atrocioius, just like their Cruisers, only magnified because these are BBs.  They respond to start a turn soon but they conduct their turns lazily, if that makes any sense... So if you make a mistake on showing too much sides, these BBs don't recover from that mistake quickly enough.

- Almost all these RU BBs have horrendous torpedo damage reduction.  Only Tier X Kremlin has good TDS values, all others suck, so if you fight in closer ranges, torpedoes always will be a danger... And if these RU BBs eat torpedo hits, you will suffer.

 

Your preferred engagement ranges should be preferably 10-14km, that minimum range can be fudged depending on the enemy ships you're facing and their torpedo ranges.  You may feel bolder and get much closer if the odds are stacked in your favor.

Be very conscious about protecting your citadel and be wary of those long range BB AP salvos into your sides, which become a lot more possible the higher in tier you go past Tier V.

 

Also, you should be terrified of CVs as a RU BB.  Only Tier X Kremlin has halfway decent AA, the rest are garbage AA.  You will be a preferred target for a CV because:

1.  Of that aforementioned Garbage Tier AA.

2.  The low torpedo damage reduction I mentioned earlier.

3.  RU & German BBs suffer heavily from AP Bombs.  You get Citadeled very easily by such bombs.

4.  Because of the RU BB tendency to maneuver like dead frozen yaks, CV players will have an easy time hitting you.

 

It's a very good BB Line if you know how to protect your Citadel and are not dependent on secondaries to supplement damage.  You also need to know how to sail BBs in a CV environment because CV players will always be looking for opportunities to nail you.  However, there's lots of good ships in the Line.  It's literally a nonstop chain of decent and good Battleships.  As long as you know how to handle the issues mentioned, you'll like this BB Line.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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