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John370

uptiered in a new ship

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I thought I saw somewhere that MM takes 20 games to settle into a metric for a ship? That said, I just finally got my Baltimore after grinding up the US CA line to take advantage of the the camo I'd earned.  Two games in, and two annihilations by invisible ships several tiers above me while my 9 point captain's skills are unusable. Is this just WOWs incentivizing me to pay the dubloons to instantly make my captain work? Because otherwise it's infuriating and unfun. Is uptiering in a new ship the norm? You'd think the matchmaker could account for players still trying to figure out a new ship by playing them against same-tier opponents?

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The match maker has never considered how long ago you got a new to you ship. There are not plans for it that have been announced that I know of.

They would then get people complaining that they moved a captain to a new ship, who's skills are now working at only 50%, and they want special match making, etc etc.  Paying (or not) to speed up a grind (ship or captain), has always been a part of the game.

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They expect you to  either grind it for months in COOP, Move another commander with more points and retrain it ( $$) or Spend on signals and Camos to move up quicker.   It's of course your choice.  

Get blapped a few dozen more times and either your wallet will open or you will go back to another ship.

There is NO protection for you in MM.

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WoT had (has?) a MM, that let you be top tier in the first battle with a new tank. WoWs don't have this. One of the reasons is, that you can still do damage uptiered with ships. Not so much in tanks.

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I know nothing about MM, but I have a growing remuda of commanders ranging from 10 to 16 points. A couple are approaching 17 after a few years of grind.

It takes a certain amount of doubloons to make a captain skills just so for the ships and then train same to take the ship without the penalty.

I am in the middle of making AA commanders and ships tossing the CE and other things depending on which ship it is.

People grew Chia pets decades ago, now we grow Commanders. 10 is a good point set to start off. But 15 and 19 is really good.

When getting into a new ship, you are not going to be melded with it very well in the first few fights. Ive had the trouble every time I got issued a new semi. Always a little something to throw me off. Temporarily. I remember one that was about a 280 inch wheel base from 1975 that could not turn worth a darn. Luckily in cement service turning was the one thing it did not have to do. Just endure the 130,000 pounds of fly ash to the plant.

Edited by xHeavy

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16 minutes ago, John370 said:

Two games in, and two annihilations by invisible ships several tiers above me 

That several would be 2 tiers

17 minutes ago, John370 said:

while my 9 point captain's skills are unusable. 

It is called retraining, you should be familiar with that mechanic by now. I recommend having T6 premiums and retrain in OPs if you don't want to spend or play Random handicapped 

18 minutes ago, John370 said:

Is this just WOWs incentivizing me to pay the dubloons to instantly make my captain work? 

Yes of course, guys have to make a living

19 minutes ago, John370 said:

Is uptiering in a new ship the norm? You'd think the matchmaker could account for players still trying to figure out a new ship by playing them against same-tier opponents?

I doesn't work that way. With 2K matches under your belt and playing a tier 8 you should be familiar by now

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It my be cruel to be kind saying so; but it would have been better to stay in lower tiers until you had at least a 10 point captain. That way you could get Concealment Expert to help mitigate when you’re spotted.

As well, raw experience also helps mitigate spotting and damage. It also helps build up credits and free xp, which can pay for things that help the grinding, though I would still not recommend rushing up the tiers.

Slow and steady, like the turtle in the fable, will serve you better in the long run than listening to WGs sinister, seductive whisperings that playing top tiers solves everything, and rushing up the tiers like the rabbit.

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7 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

That several would be 2 tiers

It is called retraining, you should be familiar with that mechanic by now. I recommend having T6 premiums and retrain in OPs if you don't want to spend or play Random handicapped 

Yes of course, guys have to make a living

I doesn't work that way. With 2K matches under your belt and playing a tier 8 you should be familiar by now

Fair points. Familiar, yes, I suppose. But that doesn't make it any less frustrating. And I can't blame uptiering on being 0-10 in my new Conqueror.

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28 minutes ago, John370 said:

I thought I saw somewhere that MM takes 20 games to settle into a metric for a ship? That said, I just finally got my Baltimore after grinding up the US CA line to take advantage of the the camo I'd earned.  Two games in, and two annihilations by invisible ships several tiers above me while my 9 point captain's skills are unusable. Is this just WOWs incentivizing me to pay the dubloons to instantly make my captain work? Because otherwise it's infuriating and unfun. Is uptiering in a new ship the norm? You'd think the matchmaker could account for players still trying to figure out a new ship by playing them against same-tier opponents?

Try not to take this too harshly, everyone gets uptiered.....at some point you are the big bully and most importantly........if you take a tier 8 ship with a 9 point captain into battle that tells  me either you are training a newer captain or moved up too fast...sometimes the truth hurts but these truths are for all of us...either take your lumps or move down.....I have a Youtube channel Meta_Man2002 where I work out strategy ,reviews and guides....check them out if you have the time . I am a positive reviewer and player but sometimes the truth needs to told.

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5 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

It my be cruel to be kind saying so; but it would have been better to stay in lower tiers until you had at least a 10 point captain. That way you could get Concealment Expert to help mitigate when you’re spotted.

As well, raw experience also helps mitigate spotting and damage. It also helps build up credits and free xp, which can pay for things that help the grinding, though I would still not recommend rushing up the tiers.

Slow and steady, like the turtle in the fable, will serve you better in the long run than listening to WGs sinister, seductive whisperings that playing top tiers solves everything, and rushing up the tiers like the rabbit.

Good points. To be fair I didn't free xp my way up the US CA line so I played plenty of games in Pensacola and New Orleans, but wasn't willing to spend dubloons, so the 25k experience required to get  priority target and other skills working are going to be painful.

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1 minute ago, Meta_Man said:

Try not to take this too harshly, everyone gets uptiered.....at some point you are the big bully and most importantly........if you take a tier 8 ship with a 9 point captain into battle that tells  me either you training a newer captain or moved up too fast...sometimes the truth hurts but these truths are for all of us...either take your lumps or move down.....I have a Youtube channel Meta_Man2002 where I work out strategy ,reviews and guides....check them out if you have the time . I am a positive reviewer and player but sometimes the truth needs to told.

Thanks for the suggestion.  Sadly all my better US captains are in BB, which I generally prefer to play. As far as the Youtube channel, one of my challenges with wows, is I want to learn by reading, as videos with sound tend to annoy folks around me, but little of the best advice for WOWs is textual (which is why I post on these forums to try and solicit advice).

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7 minutes ago, John370 said:

Good points. To be fair I didn't free xp my way up the US CA line so I played plenty of games in Pensacola and New Orleans, but wasn't willing to spend dubloons, so the 25k experience required to get  priority target and other skills working are going to be painful.

I think your scope of the game and the "grind" is off a good bit.  If playing this game long term is walking from one coast of the US to the other.  Retraining a captain for the next ship in the line, is like walking out to get your mail.  It's minuscule in the big picture.

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3 minutes ago, John370 said:

Thanks for the suggestion.  Sadly all my better US captains are in BB, which I generally prefer to play. As far as the Youtube channel, one of my challenges with wows, is I want to learn by reading, as videos with sound tend to annoy folks around me, but little of the best advice for WOWs is textual (which is why I post on these forums to try and solicit advice).

Youtube has closed captioning.  Mute the video and turn it on.  Works great.

Soooo much of this game's useful information, is in videos.

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1 minute ago, Burnsy said:

Youtube has closed captioning.  Must the video and turn it on.  Works great.

Soooo much of this game's useful information, is in videos.

Thanks. I had no idea.

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2 minutes ago, Burnsy said:

I think your scope if the game and the "grind" is off a good bit.  If playing this game long term is walking from one coast of the US to the other.  Retraining a captain for the next ship in the line, is like walking out to get your mail.  It's minuscule in the big picture.

Ok. It's a 'patience grasshopper' sort of thing. thanks.

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Ive got a Leander in VI who has like a 16 point captain. The Leander is a little ship. 28800 hull. But can it fight. And thats part of the problem.

They are talking about sending mis matched tiers say my ship against a VIII or larger tiers. Frankly I am not looking forward to that. I will have to change to another ship from Leander to fight the big boys. Maybe one of the UK DD's with concealment down to about 5.5ish and a bunch of single fire torps with huge 37kt speed. Is that too much to ask?

This game does have a grind. Ive got things on it that I am still working out after 5 years. I have another game STO that is going on probably 9 years now and couple of others like that.

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4 minutes ago, Burnsy said:

Youtube has closed captioning.  Mute the video and turn it on.  Works great.

Soooo much of this game's useful information, is in videos.

You can pull any country video and covert the captioning to your native language.

I am deaf so its useful to have CC. Not to mention a one hell of a sound card and amp to a uber closed ear headsets. I still retain natural hearing at 250 hertz at 30 Db and beyond about 900 hertz to 4K I need hearing aids or a volume pressure of 135 Db at the headphones. Some of my hearing ranges require 120 db or greater. (Profoundly deaf) as I age into towards the 60's

You would think being deaf is a bad thing. Its not. It only forces the body and mind to sharpen the remaining senses. And with a big enough stereo combined with a speaekr test of this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GhCUP04W5M This link is fair warning ahead of time. I am not responisble for failed sound devices you may have burn out playing this tune. Becareful of your equalizer settings and volume etc If you smell burning plastic then stop the exercise. And get bigger headphones or stronger speakers.

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The OP is in to something.  I specifically remember something about the first few games in a brand new ship being protected a bit.  This was a few years ago, I thought in an old patch.  Then at some time it just vanished, much like the AA gun animations.  :cap_rambo:

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13 minutes ago, Burnsy said:

I think your scope of the game and the "grind" is off a good bit.  If playing this game long term is walking from one coast of the US to the other.  Retraining a captain for the next ship in the line, is like walking out to get your mail.  It's minuscule in the big picture.

 

9 minutes ago, John370 said:

Ok. It's a 'patience grasshopper' sort of thing. thanks.

Like Burnsy said, it’s not that big a deal, unless you’re retaining a really high point captain.

Don’t forget that if you have the credits, you can halve the retraining xp. Also, the xp counts towards advancement, so it’s not like it ‘goes away’ or anything after you finish retraining.

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38 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

I recommend having T6 premiums and retrain in OPs if you don't want to spend or play Random handicapped 

^^This.  Retraining a 9-point captain is only 20K CXP.  This should be pretty quick playing operations. 

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26 minutes ago, John370 said:

Thanks for the suggestion.  Sadly all my better US captains are in BB, which I generally prefer to play. As far as the Youtube channel, one of my challenges with wows, is I want to learn by reading, as videos with sound tend to annoy folks around me, but little of the best advice for WOWs is textual (which is why I post on these forums to try and solicit advice).

Its funny you say that because when I started making videos it was with music and sub titles..Then a pretty popular youtuber I watch and respect took the time to message me and said I need to move away from that and add voice ......i did what he suggested and it makes sense....alot of the videos I click on  i actually do not watch but just listen to..most of the time I'm driving to or from work or working in the yard and just listen.... My niche is I try to explain the thought process we should be considering or situations we need to create for the said ship we are in to succeed...good luck and you took the advice and defend yourself.....just look at what you can do to create favorable situations

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Dbl post

 

 

 

Edited by Skpstr

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1 hour ago, John370 said:

I thought I saw somewhere that MM takes 20 games to settle into a metric for a ship?

That's just to get a baseline for the system that tries to evenly distribute your high/low tiering.

Quote

That said, I just finally got my Baltimore after grinding up the US CA line to take advantage of the the camo I'd earned.  Two games in, and two annihilations by invisible ships several tiers above me while my 9 point captain's skills are unusable.

Captain skills are never unusable. Players with higher captains have those same skills.

As far as that though, you really shouldn't be using a 9-point captain in T8. Biggest thing is, you don't have CE.

Quote

Is this just WOWs incentivizing me to pay the dubloons to instantly make my captain work?

They're incentivising you to do something. It's not spending doubloons, because spending doubloons won't solve your issue.

You can develop your captain further before putting him in Baltimore, you can play Co-op to get used to the ship. At T8, you're supposed to be experienced enough that you don't really need training wheels, because you're at a high enough level that you're interacting with endgame content.

Quote

Is uptiering in a new ship the norm?

Uptiering in any ship is the norm. Again, at T8, you shouldn't need special treatment. People have been getting uptiered in new ships since 2015.

Quote

You'd think the matchmaker could account for players still trying to figure out a new ship by playing them against same-tier opponents?

It probably could, but then it's more load on MM, which slows down match creation.

You'd spend longer in queue, waiting for players in same-tier new ships. Other players would spend longer, because new ships aren't available for their matches.

Edited by Skpstr

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1 hour ago, John370 said:

I thought I saw somewhere that MM takes 20 games to settle into a metric for a ship? That said, I just finally got my Baltimore after grinding up the US CA line to take advantage of the the camo I'd earned.  Two games in, and two annihilations by invisible ships several tiers above me while my 9 point captain's skills are unusable. Is this just WOWs incentivizing me to pay the dubloons to instantly make my captain work? Because otherwise it's infuriating and unfun. Is uptiering in a new ship the norm? You'd think the matchmaker could account for players still trying to figure out a new ship by playing them against same-tier opponents?

 

Try the new player experience.

I played tiers 1-4 and most of the teams were boats and always same tier.

 

I finally got my 1st tier 5, Yay me.  1st game and I'm against tier 7's.

The new player experience DOES NOT WORK.  fighting 1 vs 1 with a few bots at the same tier, does not prepare for 12 vs 12 with MM+2

 

Lol - 9 point captain.  Try 4 points.  As I was also up against a few prems, they may have been new or they may have been 19.  9 seems like a luxury  IMHO if i was in a tier 8 which sees tier 10, get the extra point and get the camo.  Cant get blatted if not seen.

 

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26 minutes ago, Pebcac said:

 

Try the new player experience.

I played tiers 1-4 and most of the teams were boats and always same tier.

 

I finally got my 1st tier 5, Yay me.  1st game and I'm against tier 7's.

The new player experience DOES NOT WORK.  fighting 1 vs 1 with a few bots at the same tier, does not prepare for 12 vs 12 with MM+2

 

Lol - 9 point captain.  Try 4 points.  As I was also up against a few prems, they may have been new or they may have been 19.  9 seems like a luxury  IMHO if i was in a tier 8 which sees tier 10, get the extra point and get the camo.  Cant get blatted if not seen.

 

Everyone here who isn't a new player, has been through the new player experience.

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