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SeaRaptor

First Look: Tier VII Premium American Battleship USS Florida

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Wargaming recently announced Tier VII Premium American battleship USS Florida.  Is there room for two 14" barreled American battleships in this tier?  I think there is, because Florida looks WAY better than California right now.

 

 

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Like how Lo Yang is to Z-35, some are of the opinion that Florida makes California obsolete right out of the gate.

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And with that the California is now completely obsolete. I honestly get the feeling they nerfed the California so they could sell more Floridas...

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Why does the double barrelled 5'38 has twice the reload time of the single barrelled 5'38?

image.thumb.png.17749d0980888f2cffb81c65ccfd435a.pngimage.thumb.png.e64e202d9178b202c8a90c3a58d80cc2.png

Do they only load one shell at a time for the double barrelled mount and then shoot? Man, American secondaries are a joke.

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22 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

Like how Lo Yang is to Z-35, some are of the opinion that Florida makes California obsolete right out of the gate.

The difference is that Lo Yang came first, and you could choose to buy Z-35 or not buy her in the context of Lo Yang having been there for a very long time already. 

10 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

Just by the turret layout Florida will be much more comfortable to play.

If you are nose-in, yes; eight guns compared to six. If you have to run, California has six to your four... but it's a very narrow advantage to the extent that it is one at all. 

 

When it comes to putting down money, Florida seems to be the better ship by far. California's interest is for those who want the history or who like the positional challenges that go with the US Standards.

 

6 minutes ago, Yandere_Roon said:

And with that the California is now completely obsolete. I honestly get the feeling they nerfed the California so they could sell more Floridas...

I'm going to turn that on its head and ask you how they could possibly have buffed the Cali to make her a preferable or even near-equal purchase, while keeping her at the same tier.

California should arguably have been a T6, but that niche is IMHO too full of US Standard battleships already (Arizona, WV41, New Mexico).

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu

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Just now, Yandere_Roon said:

And with that the California is now completely obsolete. I honestly get the feeling they nerfed the California so they could sell more Floridas...

But notice how they sold California "BEFORE" they announced Florida.  Just so typically WGaming.

I'm so thankful that I looked at California's 20.5 knot speed at tier 7 and decided, NOPE, not without 406mm guns is that even remotely worthwhile.

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6 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

If you are nose-in, yes; eight guns compared to six. If you have to run, California has six to your four... but it's a very narrow advantage to the extent that it is one at all. 

I'm going to turn that on its head and ask you how they could possibly have buffed the Cali to make her a preferable purchase, while keeping her at the same tier. California should really have been a T6, but that niche is too full already.

I'm willing to hazard a guess that Florida will have pretty decent gun angles compared to Cali's bad ones. What's also annoying is how the ship gets Champagne/Slava treatment with extremities at 25mm, while it doesn't even matter than much when everything at the tier is at 26mm anyway.

As for Cali becoming more alluring, the only way to make her good for tier VII would be to give secondaries more range and the Mass Repair Party reset time.

Though I'm wondering if they are keeping this for a WeeVee '44 at tier VIII.

Edited by warheart1992

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I took the Florida design as the intended design of the NC class prior to the Japanese abandoning the Naval Treaty so would have preferred they kept the look of the NC above the waterline for the Florida, save the turrets. Oh well :cap_old: 

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2 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

I'm going to turn that on its head and ask you how they could possibly have buffed the Cali to make her a preferable purchase, while keeping her at the same tier. California should really have been a T6, but that niche is too full already.

They couldn't..what they COULD have done is made the California the tier 6 for the US BB line split and one of the many others ships as the tier 7 leading into the 8, 9 and 10 we know exist. At Tier 6 she would have to have her range reduced down to 18km (remember the New Mex only gets 16km regular and 18km with the Artillery plotting room), buffed out her concealment so that it was 12-13km with Camo and CE...and that's pretty much all they'd have had to do, she's got the armor scheme of a tier 6, so her advantage of the New Mexico would have been much larger range with the same reload.

That way you'd have the New Mex has the standard, Arizona as 'the accurate' one and California as 'the long ranged one'.

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1 hour ago, warheart1992 said:

As for Cali becoming more alluring, the only way to make her good for tier VII would be to give secondaries more range and the Mass Repair Party reset time.

Alternatively, buff reload back to 30s, buff traverse to 45s or even 51.4s (a la Lyon).  Boom, gun handling isn't utter trash anymore compared to at-tier counterparts.

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agian you ask what is WG think that  so soon after brign out California they announce Florida. a far better ship.

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1 minute ago, Yandere_Roon said:

what they COULD have done is made the California the tier 6 for the US BB line split and one of the many others ships as the tier 7 leading into the 8, 9 and 10 we know exist

The cogs in my head were just beginning to turn along the same lines. The BIG problem with this is that the new line is characterized by its smashing broadsides with long reload for balance, and California being almost identical to New Mex at short and mid ranges doesn't really conform to that. Unless you wave a magic wand and give her some sort of "14 inch super heavy" shell to make her broadsides smashing and brutal.

Then again, the Japanese "gunboat line" destroyers don't exactly attain that characteristic until T8 anyway.

In the meantime, in a universe where WG had taken your approach, perhaps WV44 at T7?

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Just now, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

The cogs in my head were just beginning to turn along the same lines. The BIG problem with this is that the new line is characterized by its smashing broadsides with long reload for balance, and California being almost identical to New Mex at short and mid ranges doesn't really conform to that. Unless you wave a magic wand and give her some sort of "14 inch super heavy" shell to make her broadsides smashing and brutal.

Then again, the Japanese "gunboat line" destroyers don't exactly attain that characteristic until T8 anyway.

In the meantime, in a universe where WG had taken your approach, perhaps WV44 at T7?

Yeah I would have put the WV44 as the tier 7. Remember not every ship has to fit 'the gimmick' look at the British line. The Queen Elizabeth and the Monarch do not fit the 'HE spam' deal due to being much more AP focused ships.

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49 minutes ago, SeaRaptor said:

Wargaming recently announced Tier VII Premium American battleship USS Florida.  Is there room for two 14" barreled American battleships in this tier?  I think there is, because Florida looks WAY better than California right now.

 

 

Thanks for the video Raptor!

Be strong my brother!

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48 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

Like how Lo Yang is to Z-35

I missed this, Z-35 made Lo obsolete?

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1 hour ago, warheart1992 said:

I'm willing to hazard a guess that Florida will have pretty decent gun angles compared to Cali's bad ones.

Also, getting to this.  You'd be correct-  Florida's X turret can rotate to 33 degrees off the bow, and her A and B turrets can rotate to 31 degrees off the stern.  This is more desirable than California's arcs- 40 degrees off the bow to get her X and Y turrets firing, and her A and B turrets can rotate to 38 degrees off the stern.

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5 minutes ago, vak_ said:

I missed this, Z-35 made Lo obsolete?

He means Lo Yang makes Z-35 unnecessary, but as I already said, Lo Yang was there first - by a long shot - and you could choose to buy Z-35 or not on that basis. 

Now if you want a German destroyer that does what Lo Yang does at the same tier, then Z-23 ain't it and Z-35 is supposedly your go-to... but I do not like those short-range torps. That was the deal-breaker for me.

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One thing Searaptor forgot to mention, unless I missed it, was that dispersion 204mm max dispersion, that's supercruiser dispersion. So she's faster, got better firing angles, better reload, better deck with the 38mm with VASTLY more accurate guns for worst torpedo protection, and slightly less range.

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1 hour ago, vak_ said:

I missed this, Z-35 made Lo obsolete?

Other way around, theoretically.

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It’s just amazing looking at California and Florida’s stats, and you’d think you comparing two ships at different tiers, until you realize that they are both T7. Congrats WG, they PTWed a premium ship with a premium ship.

1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

I'm going to turn that on its head and ask you how they could possibly have buffed the Cali to make her a preferable or even near-equal purchase, while keeping her at the same tier.

Give back the 30sec reload she lost for no reason, buff turret traverse to at least 45secs, and some form of improved heal (whether tech tree US BB heal or Massa fast cool down heal) and now Cali is a T7 ship

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The only thing that really bothers me visually about Florida is that WG went the lazy route and used the French quad barrel layout for her guns. If you look at the design drawings for the 14in NC proposal, all the guns are evenly spaced out, like what you see on the triple barrelled turrets found on Iowa and NC(there should be a ladder in between each barrel on the turret face, you can even see this on the drawings). The only thing they did do was take those 4 barrels and put them in a USN turret housing.

If they were to go back and make it so the barrels weren't so close to each other, then I'd probably have no complaints. Been wanting to see this proto-NC in game for a while now.

Edited by GhostSwordsman

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2 hours ago, Yandere_Roon said:

They couldn't..what they COULD have done is made the California the tier 6 for the US BB line split and one of the many others ships as the tier 7 leading into the 8, 9 and 10 we know exist. At Tier 6 she would have to have her range reduced down to 18km (remember the New Mex only gets 16km regular and 18km with the Artillery plotting room), buffed out her concealment so that it was 12-13km with Camo and CE...and that's pretty much all they'd have had to do, she's got the armor scheme of a tier 6, so her advantage of the New Mexico would have been much larger range with the same reload.

That way you'd have the New Mex has the standard, Arizona as 'the accurate' one and California as 'the long ranged one'.

If the CA at tier VI was the start of the new "slow" BB line for the USN, the CO could have been moved to the "slow" line at tier VII, and a new "fast" BB slotted in at tier VII leading to the NC.  

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1 hour ago, KilljoyCutter said:

If the CA at tier VI was the start of the new "slow" BB line for the USN, the CO could have been moved to the "slow" line at tier VII, and a new "fast" BB slotted in at tier VII leading to the NC.  

Funny thing is, chances are that new “Fast BB” would of been what Florida is now, the proto-NC, which would fit perfectly as a lead up to NC

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