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VonSchoenvorts

New U.S. Battleship secondaries

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I'm actually looking forward to the new U.S. BB line coming out, but from what I've seen they are going to have the same 5 inch (127mm) secondary guns as pretty much every other American BB, but the original designs call for 6 inch (152mm) secondary guns. I hope the info I've seen on what they are planning to release is incorrect and they release the ships with the correct secondary armament...wouldn't be bad if they threw in those torpedo tubes either.

south dakota class.png

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A-hulls maybe? Aren’t those casemate guns anyway?

Refits probably gonna be the 127s.

Edited by Estimated_Prophet

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25 minutes ago, VonSchoenvorts said:

I'm actually looking forward to the new U.S. BB line coming out, but from what I've seen they are going to have the same 5 inch (127mm) secondary guns as pretty much every other American BB, but the original designs call for 6 inch (152mm) secondary guns. I hope the info I've seen on what they are planning to release is incorrect and they release the ships with the correct secondary armament...wouldn't be bad if they threw in those torpedo tubes either.

south dakota class.png

they are based of of What-If they were built and recieved Post Pearl Harbor refits, which would of very likely removed any casemate secondaries (they are basically Omaha guns, so fairly obsolete for WW2 standards anyway) and replace them with much better 5in secondaries with a better rate of fire and most importantly, AA capabilities. Also, all the US standards that got Post Pearl modernizations lost all their casemate secondaries.

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1. The secondaries are pointless at this time unless they overhaul the concept seeing as they want them to be fragile long range snipers even though SD 1920 has a thicker belt than Iowa, and the Tillman based ship has anywhere from thicker than SD to thicker than Yamato. 

2. That would require Wargaming to have A: listened to us or B: actually have some semblance of creativity. Given it's already a fantasy ship they could have gone with 'What if the DP variant of the 6"/47 had started/happened sooner as it's still basically the same gun as the Cleveland's and Brooklyn's had in the late 30's. 4 twin mounts per side, gives you the 8x per side it would have had, bolsters AA, and gives it some serious secondary firepower - if attached to a ship capable of close range fighting. 

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what is the point of secondaries on slow [edited]ships?

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The early South Dakota class was cancelled due to Washington treaty.

The 16 inch guns and the secondaries were early variants. Mark 1 for 16 inch guns and I think old tech left over from St Louis guns.

The mark 1 was also slated for the Lexington battlecruiser class, but again cancelled due to treaty.

It's a good idea, but casemate guns were abandoned due to them getting wet and being useless.

Technology changed in less than 10 yrs as the US Navy adopted the 5 inch gun for its fire rate and dual purpose. It has been the standard since Colorado refit and only the lower guns on Colorado, NM, and New York class still retained some of the early development 5 inch guns. Later the dp ones became the best iteration.

I am sure WG will introduce a low tier A hull ship, but refits after WW1 and Pearl Harbor will reflect higher tiers.

Armor on the other hand will be a slippery slope. Balance is balance.

Technically, Colorado is a beast being a superdreadnaught. Armor on that ship is not as accurately reflected because it is nearly indestructible if real armor values are used.

 

 

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51 minutes ago, Cruxdei said:

what is the point of secondaries on slow [edited]ships?

If you can't see it there is no use explaining.

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56 minutes ago, Cruxdei said:

what is the point of secondaries on slow [edited]ships?

An opportunity to waste lots of captain points on a specialized build that won't really get used on a very slow ship.

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52 minutes ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

The early South Dakota class was cancelled due to Washington treaty.

The 16 inch guns and the secondaries were early variants. Mark 1 for 16 inch guns and I think old tech left over from St Louis guns.

 

Actually, it would have been MK. 2 16" guns, the MK. 1 was what Colorado had and had a barrel length that was 45x the bore diameter, the MK. 2 would have been 50x the bore diameter in length. Fun fact, the MK. 2 guns were eventually intended to be put on the Iowa class, but there was very poor communication between BuOrd and Design and Construction, leading to the hull not being capable of supporting the heavier turret design needed for the MK. 2 guns, so the MK. 7 guns and lighter turrets were rushed through development as an emergency fix. 

The annoying thing for me about what WG has done is that the ship closest to the original 1920 SoDak, the Kansas (much home state pride for me and the main reason I will bother at all with this slow tubs line), has the MK. 1 guns based on what I've seen of the info on them. 

Edited by CaptHarlock_222

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1 minute ago, VonSchoenvorts said:

Cruxdeiumm...to help deal with DD's, cruisers, and battleships. Every little bit helps.

23kt BB?  Not really.

Any ship that doesn't want to be in your secondaries range will be out of reach.  You can't impose your will against faster ships when you're slow at 23kts.

Any ship with the power and speed to WANT to be in secondaries range can, and will be able to.

 

South Dakota was going to be one of those 1920s style USN Standards, just bigger.  Getting penned all over the place like New Mexico, Colorado.

 

Besides, WG isn't intending the USN BB Split to be Brawlers.  They are a Main Battery-focused BB Line.

https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/45

"Battleships of the new sub-branch have devastating salvos (e.g. Vermont X has 12 18" guns) but a long main battery reload time, low speed, and relatively light armor."

 

And if you check the base Secondaries range of the split BBs, they're 5-6km base range.  Even Tier X Vermont only has 6km base range for Secondaries.  That's garbage range.

 

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25 minutes ago, VonSchoenvorts said:

Cruxdeiumm...to help deal with DD's, cruisers, and battleships. Every little bit helps.

if dds are close enough to make these secondaries work,the captain made a BIG mistake.

32 minutes ago, SkullCowboy_60 said:

If you can't see it there is no use explaining.

i really cant see it.

good secondaries on a 23knots battleship,anyone can disengage and prevent such weapons to be used unless they are dense enough to become a black hole.

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2 minutes ago, Cruxdei said:

if dds are close enough to make these secondaries work,the captain made a BIG mistake.

Yes, if a DD has been spotted at its concealment range, fish are already in the water and it's too late.  High Tier IJN & USN DDs get around 5.4-5.8km stealth build detection ranges.  That's already point blank for torpedo drop purposes in this game.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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I'm afraid all the new USN BB line will be good for is target practice .... with them as the targets.

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Yeah...gotta agree with some of the previous posts.

the 152's would likely have been casemate guns, or even mounted up on the shelter deck ala the as completed US Standards (think Ari

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25 minutes ago, Cruxdei said:

if dds are close enough to make these secondaries work,the captain made a BIG mistake.

Cruxdeiokay Mr. Perfect, sometimes you can do everything right and still have a DD show up,  good secondaries can save your a$$. 

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1 minute ago, VonSchoenvorts said:

Cruxdeiokay Mr. Perfect, sometimes you can do everything right and still have a DD show up,  good secondaries can save your a$$. 

building for secondaries on the new US BBs would be a waste, youre so slow that, even if you did build for them, that DD is probably going to get through and torp you to death, so no point in wasting those points, probably better to go a full survival build on them instead

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We are going on a few presumptions.

We presume that the early Dev blog is set in stone.

It could be that the secondaries get a buff to Massachusetts range or there could be a distinct possibility that the new line is long range shooters and the main line gets all Massachusetts range secondaries.

The thing is the new line has to have a gimmick.

If they are Long range shooters, then expect better than average sigma on tiers 8 -10.
Especially if secondaries are meh.

This could shift the game to bleacher seat shooting, but I don't think anyone in a cruiser will be able to effectively dodge something and not be able to shoot back because they are outranged.

This line might be what the game needs.

I think cruiser players will feel the pain first.

Edited by SteelRain_Rifleman

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2 hours ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

This line might be what the game needs.

You're going to have to elaborate on that, because the quoted text is otherwise nonsensical.

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2 hours ago, tcbaker777 said:

building for secondaries on the new US BBs would be a waste, youre so slow that, even if you did build for them, that DD is probably going to get through and torp you to death, so no point in wasting those points, probably better to go a full survival build on them instead

It's not only that, their secondaries' range is also going to suck.

3 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

*snip*

Besides, WG isn't intending the USN BB Split to be Brawlers.  They are a Main Battery-focused BB Line.

https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/45

"Battleships of the new sub-branch have devastating salvos (e.g. Vermont X has 12 18" guns) but a long main battery reload time, low speed, and relatively light armor."

 

And if you check the base Secondaries range of the split BBs, they're 5-6km base range.  Even Tier X Vermont only has 6km base range for Secondaries.  That's garbage range.

 

In addition, those 152mm, 150mm (German), 155mm (Yamato-class) guns you see on BB secondaries have a very slow ROF. 

The real firepower comes from the smaller guns that do all the work.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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