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crazyferret23777

Pommern main guns

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I've seen from CC's that the main guns in terms of penetration are absolutely terrible so my question is are they so bad that you have to run a Full secondary build to make her work? Really don't want to shell out 220,000 coal for a worse FDG. TIA

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1 minute ago, crazyferret23777 said:

I've seen from CC's that the main guns in terms of penetration are absolutely terrible so my question is are they so bad that you have to run a Full secondary build to make her work? Really don't want to shell out 220,000 coal for a worse FDG. TIA

They are bad but if you shoot well you can do ok. Not great.

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26 minutes ago, crazyferret23777 said:

I've seen from CC's that the main guns in terms of penetration are absolutely terrible so my question is are they so bad that you have to run a Full secondary build to make her work? Really don't want to shell out 220,000 coal for a worse FDG. TIA

They're German 15s. Nothing more, nothing less. These have been in game for years now.

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A fun contrast to Pommern is the original 380mm x12 BB of Tier IX... Alsace.

 

Both ships have the same 380mm x12 rifle count, but outside turret arrangement:

Alsace has better shells, HE & AP.  Especially the AP, French 380mm AP is d*mn good in Penetration capability, rivaling even some 406mm shells.

However, the advantage Pommern has is that German BBs moved up from the Old German / FR Dispersion pattern and is now using the same pattern as USN / RN BBs do.  When Pommern can get off her 12-gun salvos, it's very apparent to anyone that's used Alsace before.  FR BB gunnery has always been wild.  Now they're the only BB Line stuck with the worst dispersion pattern in the game for Battleships.

 

Even the Richelieu-class in the game have wild gunnery.  Richelieu herself, Gascogne.  Jean Bart?  Only reason it works out for her is that she reloads stupidly fast.

Republique in Tier X, her accuracy isn't all that to take advantage of her wonderful shells.  But she makes up for it in reload.

Lyon has sh*t accuracy but throws 16 shells and stuff will stick.

Alsace has 12 guns and prays they get hits.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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The penetration on German 380mm is definitely not the best and, in fact, is barely better than what the Petropavalosk's 220mm does, but you get twelve of them.

And you get to be the only T9 BB with torpedoes mounted.

 

 

Personally, I would go with Alsace, since that too gets 12x 380mm, with significantly better penetration, while having a far more relevant and meta consumable of more speed.

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6 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:

The penetration on German 380mm is definitely not the best and, in fact, is barely better than what the Petropavalosk's 220mm does, but you get twelve of them.

And you get to be the only T9 BB with torpedoes mounted.

 

 

Personally, I would go with Alsace, since that too gets 12x 380mm, with significantly better penetration, while having a far more relevant and meta consumable of more speed.

Alsace has her own big tradeoffs.  Very significant ones.  I love the ship, she's fantastic, but there's several big issues:

 

French BBs are stuck all by themselves as the only BB Line with the worst BB Dispersion pattern in the game.  Germans used to be here also, but WG moved them up to RN / USN BB Dispersion.  This BB Line from top to bottom is laced with very wild gunnery.

 

Alsace is coated in 32mm armor.  HE spammers love FR & RN BBs because of their thin exterior armor, they eat HE Pens galore.  Bow, stern, deck armor, upper armor belt, doesn't matter, it's all 32mm at High Tier for them.  They melt to HE spam.

 

Meanwhile Pommern, just like FDG, has this:

vhxAB4C.jpg

Bismarck-class, Odin, not even GK in Tier X has anything like that.  They have 50mm deck armor and the 32mm extremities, but only FDG & Pommern have those unusual 80mm armor sections.

 

Another fun part for FR & RN BBs being coated in 32mm armor all over?  Yamato-class LOVE THEM.  They can angle or whatever they want, it doesn't matter, because IJN 460mm will Overmatch, and Overmatch doesn't care about your angle.  There's no bouncing.

 

I didn't even get into the disparity of Secondaries, but since everyone is more worried about Main Battery performance and Armor for their BBs, I just stuck with those two.

 

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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It sounds like she's a tier IX Tirpitz, one that went the route of more barrels instead of bigger ones. I'd expect her to play and build about the same, honestly.

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In co-op, the Pommerns I've seen doing well are the ones getting lots of torp strikes.

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run the +16% main gun range mod in slot 6, for ~24.7km range, you can then run the secondary battery range mod in slot 3, I have found this to be the most effective combination in the more repeatable setting of coop, allowing the 380mm AP to do its thing around the 20km to 21km mark like Tirpitz 380mm AP can.

Edited by b101uk

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2 hours ago, crazyferret23777 said:

I've seen from CC's that the main guns in terms of penetration are absolutely terrible so my question is are they so bad that you have to run a Full secondary build to make her work? Really don't want to shell out 220,000 coal for a worse FDG. TIA

They're Bismarck/Tirpitz guns. It is the "worst" at Tier IX but it's hardly ineffective. With few exceptions Tier IX (and X) do not have significantly more armor than Tier VIiI. 

You'll be better off building for main guns with equipment, to mitigate the dispersion and reload time. Those are the factors that balans Pommern. 

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1 hour ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

A fun contrast to Pommern is the original 380mm x12 BB of Tier IX... Alsace.

 

Both ships have the same 380mm x12 rifle count, but outside turret arrangement:

Alsace has better shells, HE & AP.  Especially the AP, French 380mm AP is d*mn good in Penetration capability, rivaling even some 406mm shells.

However, the advantage Pommern has is that German BBs moved up from the Old German / FR Dispersion pattern and is now using the same pattern as USN / RN BBs do.  When Pommern can get off her 12-gun salvos, it's very apparent to anyone that's used Alsace before.  FR BB gunnery has always been wild.  Now they're the only BB Line stuck with the worst dispersion pattern in the game for Battleships.

 

Even the Richelieu-class in the game have wild gunnery.  Richelieu herself, Gascogne.  Jean Bart?  Only reason it works out for her is that she reloads stupidly fast.

Jean Bart has a modified sigma value, 1.9. That and the tight turret placement makes her grouping threatening. 

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I only took it into a couple matches but so far feels like a fun ship. Don't try to be the backfield sniper, move in and enjoy a good brawl. I tried bow tanking and could hear shells bouncing like crazy. 3 mill potential was easy. I landed some citadels. My team was passive so we lost and they didnt take advantage of the new shiny attracting all the attention but that is typical these days.

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This was my first outing just now in the Pommern.  (Keep in mind, I have a notorious habit of doing well my first outing in a new ship).  The vast majority of my damage was main battery.

I am opting for NOT running the full secondary build.  Im running aiming mod 1 and Mb mod 3.  (sacrificing 20% range and -20% reload on secondaries for reduced MB reload and -7% dispersion on the main battery (also with a slight dispersion buff on secondaries)).  

I really wasnt feeling the bad sigma too bad, there were some wild volleys but theres so many shells somethings gonna hit.   I landed a cit on that neptune from about 17.5 km (admittedly with better dispersion I probably would have dev struck him).

Hoping to get into a all T 9 or a T 10 game to see how it holds up in a game with no T 7s or 8s.

.image.thumb.png.928ca71ca5eaee9d812535e3cf376f24.png

image.thumb.png.3e18fa03c4e37aca7d1b588eb41e4c08.png

image.thumb.png.9cb3405d5d1448b679807cc67927ba4c.png

Edited by Taco_De_Moist

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You all are forgetting that they nerfed the doo doo out of the Pommern's guns - they have a 33s reload and the turrets are T5 quality turn speed at 36s/180.. So German dispersion, Russian reload, and T5 turn rates on the turrets. All the worst of worst worlds. Mix in a horrid rudder shift time and you have a floating secondary battery.

The only reason I feel I do well in it is due to the secondaries are insane. I literally sink ships without seeing them. It's not uncommon to end a match with 150+ secondary hits.

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11 minutes ago, StoptheViolins said:

and the turrets are T5 quality turn speed at 36s/180..

They turn faster than Konig, Bayern, PEF, Großer Kurfürst, and equal fast to Gneisenau, Bismarck, Tirpitz in the German line.

 

They also turn faster or as fast as some tier V, VI, VII, VII, IX and X BB main guns from other nations.

 

In fact the only tier V BB guns that turn as fast are Giulio Cesare's as far as I am aware, so the argument over turret speed is almost entirely worthless.

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4 hours ago, SkaerKrow said:

It sounds like she's a tier IX Tirpitz, one that went the route of more barrels instead of bigger ones. I'd expect her to play and build about the same, honestly.

more or less, yes, thats exactly how she is, just more tanky than Tirpitz because FDG armor scheme

 

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Personally, I'm having a fantastic time with the thing. People tend to go crazy over not having the absolute best pen numbers on BBs, but I've always found overpens to be more of an issue for me, even on Mutsu (and Ashitaka when she still had Type 88 AP shells), and people love to bash the Type 88 AP shell. When you fight at the ranges that Pommern is meant for, her pen numbers are more than adequate, the only area she tends to struggle at is lack of overmatch on most high tier cruisers. Personally I run secondaries on it to help compensate for the slow reload in close range brawls and to set fires to help any floods from the torps stick. Worked pretty darn well for Tirp and is working just fine on 'Pomegranate'.

Edited by CaptHarlock_222

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7 hours ago, Taichunger said:

They are bad but if you shoot well you can do ok. Not great.

Actually Bismarck's 15s have their nuance...but they do have punch when delivered well.  And that's just eight.  Twelve?  Nice!  Can't wait....but currently priced too high for me.

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5 hours ago, StoptheViolins said:

 

You all are forgetting that they nerfed the doo doo out of the Pommern's guns - they have a 33s reload and the turrets are T5 quality turn speed at 36s/180.. So German dispersion, Russian reload, and T5 turn rates on the turrets. 

 

1: tied for third fastest turret traverse with Alsace and only behind FDG and Soyuz is T5 level turret traverse, and the only T5 BB that can rotate its turrets in under 45secs stock is Cesar, which has the same 36sec traverse

2: it kind of has to have poorish dispersion, because 12 BB caliber guns hitting everything is kind of OP. Also it started with 1.8 sigma and a 32sec reload, and it was too good like that, so it got changed to what it is now.

3: she has the third best DPM among T9 BBs with only Alsace and Musashi having more

4: She doesn’t use German/French dispersion, she uses US BB dispersion, so Pommern is a little more accurate than Alsace

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7 hours ago, BlackAngelCom said:

Jean Bart has a modified sigma value, 1.9. That and the tight turret placement makes her grouping threatening. 

She's still stuck with the old German BB dispersion.

When German BBs were still stuck in the same dispersion model with the FR BBs, FDG was right there with Jean Bart with 1.8 Sigma and 8 rifles.  Yet people whined CONSTANTLY about FDG.  It's only 0.1 Sigma difference.

Same story with GK one tier higher, 1.8 Sigma, only 0.1 Sigma difference from Jean Bart.  This time GK has 12 rifles instead of the 8 of FDG and Jean Bart.  Yet people constantly whined about her dispersion.

 

I never thought of the Richelieu-class turret arrangement as any more threatening than others in High Tier.  I just saw it as convenient to knock out their firepower by destroying their easy to squish turrets.

6 hours ago, Taco_De_Moist said:

This was my first outing just now in the Pommern.  (Keep in mind, I have a notorious habit of doing well my first outing in a new ship).  The vast majority of my damage was main battery.

I am opting for NOT running the full secondary build.  Im running aiming mod 1 and Mb mod 3.  (sacrificing 20% range and -20% reload on secondaries for reduced MB reload and -7% dispersion on the main battery (also with a slight dispersion buff on secondaries)).  

I really wasnt feeling the bad sigma too bad, there were some wild volleys but theres so many shells somethings gonna hit.   I landed a cit on that neptune from about 17.5 km (admittedly with better dispersion I probably would have dev struck him).

Hoping to get into a all T 9 or a T 10 game to see how it holds up in a game with no T 7s or 8s.

Before the IFHE / Armor changes, Alsace presented the same build options to her players.

Going Main or Secondary Battery Build was a valid route.

 

Pommern can easily go with either route while for Alsace it's questionable today.

 

As I've mentioned elsewhere, WoWS has a history of low Sigma BBs masking the issue with other things, often with unusual high rifle count.  Some do it better than others.  Fuso, Lyon for example.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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20 hours ago, tfcas119 said:

1: tied for third fastest turret traverse with Alsace and only behind FDG and Soyuz is T5 level turret traverse, and the only T5 BB that can rotate its turrets in under 45secs stock is Cesar, which has the same 36sec traverse

And in T5, only Pyotr has 45 seconds, the rest are either 60 or close to it.

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