Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
Hapa_Fodder

Asymmetric battle survey.

36 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

8,464
[D-H-O]
-Members-
4,756 posts
15,709 battles

Aloha,

One of the main features of Update 0.9.8 will be a new temporary battle type with an uneven distribution of ships per team - Asymmetric Battle. The teams in Asymmetric Battle will differ in the number of ships and their tiers, but we have made sure that the strength of both teams is as equal as possible. 

Today we have prepared a small survey to get your opinion on the effectiveness of different team compositions in Asymmetric Battle.

To participate in the survey you need to perform a few simple steps:

  1. Follow the link: https://proships.ru/stat/meta/asyn/.
  2. Choose your game server from the list.
  3. Sign in with your Wargaming account.
  4. After that, you will be shown the different compositions of teams for Asymmetric Battle, and you just need to choose which team you think would win in each battle and click the button. If you are not sure about the result of the battle, you can press the "Draw" button.
  5. To collect statistics, each participant of the survey should choose the result for 10-20 different battles.

Thank you for your participation in the development of the project and good luck in battle!

Mahalo,

-Hapa

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,935
[RKLES]
[RKLES]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
6,706 posts
23,842 battles

So does this mean 1 cv vs 2?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,702
[WPORT]
Members
9,986 posts
14,444 battles

I chose results for about 20 battles.
Then I logged-out.

  • Cool 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
151 posts
4,371 battles

I've noticed matches with heavy imbalances and I think it's pretty important;

CVs MUST be mirrored (obviously they will be different tiers, but if there is a T8 CV then you need to add a T6 CV to give the massive utility a CV provides, especially since T6 AA on BBs/CLs is practically worthless against a T8 CV)

I would honestly suggest against even allowing T8 CVs in Assym because I heavily suspect they will have an insane amount of match influence and simply farm.

Another important factor is DD mirroring. I got a match with a Z23 and an Oland on the high tier team vs a low tier team with no CV or DDs and that would be an absolute unfun slaughter to play.  That said, it would also be rather awful to play as a T8 BB with no DDs, CVs or Radar cruisers on your team so it's pretty important that the top tier team gets at least one radar cruiser/DD and it's equally as important the lower tier team gets at least one DD per enemy DD (a Fubuki might not be able to kill a Benson in a fair fight, but it can certainly spot it for the Budyonny/Nurnberg to deal with)

All in all I assume these are 100% random matches so WG can get feedback and decide those factors,  but I do genuinely worry there will be horrible imbalances as the MM doesn't properly account for radar cruisers, stealthy DDs vs Gunboats, T8 CVs are allowed to farm T5 and T6 ships while laughing at their pitiful AA, etc.

  • Cool 1
  • Meh 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
577
[WOLF5]
Members
1,514 posts
11,180 battles

I became amused as to how often the Gneisenau was included....

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,702
[WPORT]
Members
9,986 posts
14,444 battles
45 minutes ago, DJC_499 said:

I became amused as to how often the Gneisenau was included....

:cap_look:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
472
[KRAB]
Members
927 posts
7,402 battles

Pretty much every battle strongly favors the higher tier side. Overmatch, cruiser plating, DD power, the jump between CVs...it can't be done using these tiers. 

MAYBE try tier 8-9 vs tier 10 and see if that can work. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,066
[SHOOT]
[SHOOT]
Beta Testers
4,328 posts
13,008 battles

We used to have this feature way WAY back in Closed Beta. The enemy had a bunch of lower tiers with a few equal tier ships compared to yours. I remember it, yes i do. That was also back when we had the three tier mm spread. I remember being in a Pensacola vs Zao's, Midways and Yamatos.  Very fun and delightful, days indeed.

I always wanted an Axis VS Allied mode though: still do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,066
[SHOOT]
[SHOOT]
Beta Testers
4,328 posts
13,008 battles

 

@Hapa_Fodder that poll is way too long, most of those battles, unless the highest tier has a stacked set of super ships, the most numerous side with fewest cruisers win. And some t5s, like the Omaha series, which are no longer vulnerable to 203mm overmatch are actually competitive against higher tier lower dpm cruisers; and have the torpedoes to stop them.

 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
470 posts
8,506 battles

So we could get a fight between North Carolina and Kongo with is.  Normally they wouldn't see each other, with the Tier 5 to 8 spread.   While we know how that went....it be entertaining.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
354
[DOG]
Members
1,301 posts
13,507 battles
14 hours ago, Crokodone said:

I always wanted an Axis VS Allied mode though: still do.

That would be awesome, especially in ranked, where you tend to see the same ships game after game.  I hate being matched up against the same ship I'm driving.  I guess that makes it a more even match, but it's just not...I don't know...as interesting?  It's more fun, to me at least, to have advantages to exploit and weaknesses to try to prevent the enemy from exploiting.  You don't get that if you're fighting a clone of your own ship.  Pan Asian, Pan European, and Pan American ships could be wild cards, going either Axis or Allies.  I know Pan European are mostly allied navies, but we have an Austro Hungarian ship, and will probably get Spanish ships eventually.

Probably not practical, though, since there is currently more variety on the Allied side.  So you'd get really long queue times waiting for enough Axis ships.  Take DDs, for instance.  At tier X the Axis only has Z-52, Shimakaze, Haragumo, and Hayate at the moment.  Not bad ships, but not a lot of variety.  Maybe the Italian tier X tech tree DD will be interesting.  It looks like the Paolo Emilio will only be useful in a niche role that radar will make (mostly) pointless, assuming it doesn't get more major changes before release.  And maybe the Germans will get a tier X premium DD with 150 mm guns at some point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,066
[SHOOT]
[SHOOT]
Beta Testers
4,328 posts
13,008 battles
22 minutes ago, zubalkabir said:

That would be awesome, especially in ranked, where you tend to see the same ships game after game.  I hate being matched up against the same ship I'm driving.  I guess that makes it a more even match, but it's just not...I don't know...as interesting?  It's more fun, to me at least, to have advantages to exploit and weaknesses to try to prevent the enemy from exploiting.  You don't get that if you're fighting a clone of your own ship.  Pan Asian, Pan European, and Pan American ships could be wild cards, going either Axis or Allies.  I know Pan European are mostly allied navies, but we have an Austro Hungarian ship, and will probably get Spanish ships eventually.

Spot on, Although, unlike Europe of Pan-Asia was or were Allied. The only Axis Asians were the Japanese. Even the communist Chinese were allied. Meanwhile, not joining his war, I believe Sweden was a strong sympathizer and supplier of the Axis cause.

22 minutes ago, zubalkabir said:

Probably not practical, though, since there is currently more variety on the Allied side.  So you'd get really long queue times waiting for enough Axis ships.  Take DDs, for instance.  At tier X the Axis only has Z-52, Shimakaze, Haragumo, and Hayate at the moment.  Not bad ships, but not a lot of variety.  Maybe the Italian tier X tech tree DD will be interesting.  It looks like the Paolo Emilio will only be useful in a niche role that radar will make (mostly) pointless, assuming it doesn't get more major changes before release.  And maybe the Germans will get a tier X premium DD with 150 mm guns at some point.

I wouldn't say there's more variety on the Allied side regarding ships. Currently the Japanese have more DD variety than the Americans and they're substantially more powerful.

The French could be either Axis (Vichy) or Allied (Free.) I Would say WG did a great job swinging the pendulum between the two sides. French and German BBs remains the most popular ships tier for tier.  I'd be concerned about the Allied BBs due to not only because their shell velocities, but their very conservative protection scheme's.

When it comes to cruisers the imalance is even worse. Even after radar, Axis cruisers not only have an advantage I'm range, but armor, torpedoes and ballistics.

DDs, and CVs? The difference is only exacerbated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
470 posts
8,506 battles

Technically you could put the Soviets on both sides as well.  At least up to June 1941.   I know the Russians would probably hate that, considered the massive part of the war they fought, but it is there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
213
[ARC]
Members
1,077 posts
11,583 battles
On 8/7/2020 at 12:09 PM, ithekro said:

Technically you could put the Soviets on both sides as well.  At least up to June 1941.   I know the Russians would probably hate that, considered the massive part of the war they fought, but it is there.

The same can be said about Italy from 1943 onwards, but they did not fought naval battles after capitulation.

On 8/7/2020 at 11:19 AM, Crokodone said:

Meanwhile, not joining his war, I believe Sweden was a strong sympathizer and supplier of the Axis cause.

This is not true. Remember which ship spotted Bismarck when she got out of the North Sea together with Prinz Eugen and reported it to the Royal Navy. 

On 8/7/2020 at 11:19 AM, Crokodone said:

I wouldn't say there's more variety on the Allied side regarding ships. Currently the Japanese have more DD variety than the Americans and they're substantially more powerful.

The French could be either Axis (Vichy) or Allied (Free.) I Would say WG did a great job swinging the pendulum between the two sides. French and German BBs remains the most popular ships tier for tier.  I'd be concerned about the Allied BBs due to not only because their shell velocities, but their very conservative protection scheme's.

When it comes to cruisers the imalance is even worse. Even after radar, Axis cruisers not only have an advantage I'm range, but armor, torpedoes and ballistics.

DDs, and CVs? The difference is only exacerbated.

Let's talk only about ship lines. I will not include premium ships in this comparison.

Allies:

-USA: 5 (soon to be 6) lines. 1 of DDs, 2 of CA/CL, 2 of BBs, 1 of DDs

-UK: 5 lines. 1 of DDs, 2 of CA/CL, 1 of BBs and 1 of CVs.

-USSR: 5 lines. 2 of DDs, 2 of CA/CL, 1 of BBs

-France: 3 lines. 1 of DDs, 1 of CA/CL, 1 of BBs

-PanAsia: 1 line. 1 of DDs

Axis:

-Japan: 5 lines. 2 of DDs, 1 of CA/CL, 1 of BBs, 1 of CVs

-Germany: 4 lines. 1 of DDs, 1 of CA/CL, 1 of BBs, 1 of CVs

-Italy: 1 line. 1 of CA/CL

Neutral:

-Europe (Sweden): 1 line. 1 of DDs.

You can make exceptions, like the PanAsian not using those ships during WWII, but they waged war against the Axis. The already observed states of France and the USSR before 1941, when they were neutral (Vichy was supposed to be neutral) but supported the Axis side. But let's simplify the analisys and do it as I summarised before

Then, the Allies have 6 lines of DDs, 7 lines of CA/CL, 4 (soon to be 5) BBs and 2 lines of CVs. The Axis have 3 lines of DDs, 3 lines of CA/CL, 2 lines of BBs and 2 lines of CVs. You can say that all those lines are not equal, so I will put any line beggining at tier 8 as 1/2, then it will look like this: Allies with 5½ lines of DDs, 6½ lines of CA, 4½ lines of BBs and 2 lines of CVs. The Axis remains as before. Even with that, the amount of Allied ships is almost double that of the Axis. 

And that's not counting premium ships, of which the USA and the USSR have the most in the game (last time I checked there was parity in the amount of premiums implemented by both). 

Edited by hanesco

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,066
[SHOOT]
[SHOOT]
Beta Testers
4,328 posts
13,008 battles
1 hour ago, hanesco said:

Let's talk only about ship lines. I will not include premium ships in this comparison

Yeah, but since France, and the Soviet Union can be either side, that gap is allot closer than that list. Not to mention German, Soviet and Japanese ships post t8 have some of the best Balistics on all types of ships.

Sure, even if we Exclude the Soviets from the Axis fleets, the Axis have by far the more popular ships outside the USN.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,586
[ALL41]
Beta Testers
2,464 posts
10,717 battles
On 8/5/2020 at 11:44 AM, Hapa_Fodder said:

Aloha,

One of the main features of Update 0.9.8 will be a new temporary battle type with an uneven distribution of ships per team - Asymmetric Battle. The teams in Asymmetric Battle will differ in the number of ships and their tiers, but we have made sure that the strength of both teams is as equal as possible. 

Today we have prepared a small survey to get your opinion on the effectiveness of different team compositions in Asymmetric Battle.

To participate in the survey you need to perform a few simple steps:

  1. Follow the link: https://proships.ru/stat/meta/asyn/.
  2. Choose your game server from the list.
  3. Sign in with your Wargaming account.
  4. After that, you will be shown the different compositions of teams for Asymmetric Battle, and you just need to choose which team you think would win in each battle and click the button. If you are not sure about the result of the battle, you can press the "Draw" button.
  5. To collect statistics, each participant of the survey should choose the result for 10-20 different battles.

Thank you for your participation in the development of the project and good luck in battle!

Mahalo,

-Hapa

I think this is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. 

Here, let me tell you exactly how this is going to fail thanks to WG's 'other' design failures:

 

1- Soviet bias super ships will be the ones that will determine which side wins. Whoever has more, is likely to win. Tier does not matter. 

2- Whichever has the HE spammiest ships wins. Tier does not matter. 

3- Whichever side has the most bow-tank ships will win. Oh look, this happens to be the same setup as #1

 

Want to make a new battle mode? How about one where team spotting is disabled except in minimap. That ALONE would change things dramatically.  

 

  • Cool 1
  • Meh 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40
[GCREW]
Members
77 posts
13,563 battles
On 8/6/2020 at 4:56 PM, MaxL_1023 said:

Pretty much every battle strongly favors the higher tier side. Overmatch, cruiser plating, DD power, the jump between CVs...it can't be done using these tiers. 

MAYBE try tier 8-9 vs tier 10 and see if that can work. 

You say that yet on test today, Every match (7 or 8 of them) the Low tiers won the match. Not a single loss. It actually reminded me of games in which your teams DD yolos out in 2 mins and your CV is afk so the other team outnumbers you and just HE farms you all down. Happened every game today. I cant say it would be much fun in the higher tiered ships tbh. After test, i wont touch on the live server unless their is a very nice reward. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
62
[YOU]
Beta Testers
402 posts
6,350 battles
15 minutes ago, Thegooorooo said:

You say that yet on test today, Every match (7 or 8 of them) the Low tiers won the match. Not a single loss. It actually reminded me of games in which your teams DD yolos out in 2 mins and your CV is afk so the other team outnumbers you and just HE farms you all down. Happened every game today. I cant say it would be much fun in the higher tiered ships tbh. After test, i wont touch on the live server unless their is a very nice reward. 

I'm currently experiencing the same thing, even in a tier 6 going up against two tier 8 CVs, we steam rolled over them when the two non-CV tier 7s sunk 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36
[NFFS]
Members
259 posts
7,929 battles
1 hour ago, Thegooorooo said:

You say that yet on test today, Every match (7 or 8 of them) the Low tiers won the match. Not a single loss

Good Afternoon!

Just a question for curiosity's sake: did most of the higher tiers have human captains or bots?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
250
[_BDA_]
Members
571 posts
9,038 battles
1 hour ago, LancasterOne said:

uh... the site is in Russian. 

Are the ships not identified as :Name for bots like on the NA server?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
281
[BLAZE]
Beta Testers
201 posts
5,497 battles
38 minutes ago, michael_zahnle said:

Are the ships not identified as :Name for bots like on the NA server?

uuhh not really. I mean I can make it out if I really REALLY try but that's like zero reward for all that effort. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×