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Skyfaller

So let me get this straight.. Kremlin's unique upgrade

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... so WG thinks Yamato's UU is too over the top because it increased a measly 6% the refire rate while it penalized its already GLACIAL rotation rate by 19% (now 13%) and because it provided 'double bonus' with the second bonus being the utterly irrelevant to long range fire 'reduction of dispersion' ...which was horizontal only not vertical reduction which is why its irrelevant and functionally pointless at long range. Newsflash: 13% lower rotation of an already punishingly glacial rotation is STILL A TERRIBLY SLOW ROTATION. 

....

But they think Kremlin's UU increasing already monster damage output by 18 whopping percent in refire rate is 'balanced out' by reducing max firing range by 12% on a ship which already didn't bother to fire at long range to begin with?

Just math it out... 12% reduction of 20.6 km is an OH MY GOD SO HORRIBLE LOSS OF JUST 2.4KM OF RANGE!!!!!! And its a 2.4km that no Kremlin bothers to take shots at due to it not getting its magical fantasy accuracy bonus. 

 So, Kremlin with the current 12% reload main battery mod 3 drops its 33s reload down to 29 seconds.... with the UU it drops down to   27s. 

...and a loss of one consumable which is irrelevant given we all now have 'premium' +1 charges as well as there being a captain skill that gives you +1 as well as the soviet bias kunetskov (sp?) captain giving the ship a free heal just by getting low in health. 

 

This 'balancing' is not fair or equivalent. 

 

How about trying to change the UUs and implement the Kremlin UU with some integrity? Give it one pro and one con and then one minor utility. 

 

Yamato:

Pro: Reduce VERTICAL dispersion by 20% 

Con: Increase HORIZONTAL dispersion by 10%

Utility: Increase max range of main and secondaries by 10%

 

Kremlin:

Pro: Reduce rmain gun reload time by 20% 

Con: Reduce turret rotation rate by 10%

Utility: Increase max range of main and secondaries by 10%

 

That alone makes both Kremlin and Yamato gain a good bonus on their primary means of dealing damage.. Yamato by having more accuracy at long range (where vertical primarily determines hit rate not the horizontal) but worsens close range accuracy (horizontal spread out more) and Kremlin gets its faster rate of fire to deal damage but it loses rotation rate on the main turret which affects its ability to snap switch targets at closer ranges.. so BOTH gain and lose equally. 

 

...but the change WG implements now is utter nonsense. Kremlin gets full benefits with zero applicable cons to it. 

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Well no it is quite fair.

Kremlin lost in range is quite relevant. Yes, you are not that accurate, but your vertical dispersion is still up there, with one of the best penetration in the game. Thus losing some 2 km of range on a ship that is not quick with no spotter do hurt quite a lot.

 

And the -1 consumable hurt it quite a lot: Losing one repair party and one heal makes you less able to tank, which the unique Upgrade tries to make you do more.

 

Meanwhile, Yamato UU works in coherence for long range.

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Just now, Y_Nagato said:

Well no it is quite fair.

Kremlin lost in range is quite relevant. Yes, you are not that accurate, but your vertical dispersion is still up there, with one of the best penetration in the game. Thus losing some 2 km of range on a ship that is not quick with no spotter do hurt quite a lot.

 

And the -1 consumable hurt it quite a lot: Losing one repair party and one heal makes you less able to tank, which the unique Upgrade tries to make you do more.

 

Meanwhile, Yamato UU works in coherence for long range.

 

You think so? Kremlin vertical is significantly better than Yamatos at all ranges. Even 19km. 

Losing 2.4km is not hurting the ship at all as its a range that is closed in quickly and it is a range the ship does not engage in for the majority of the battle. The consumable loss does not hurt it in the least because it is regained by multiple means and given for free via captain perk just for getting low in health... Yamato has to get 5 kills to get a heal imagine that. Furthermore there is no better 'tank' capability than that of taking out damage sources and Kremlin with faster ROF certainly will do that. 

 

image.thumb.png.50b2d7d4412c9da5de5e77e72d37abab.png

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29 minutes ago, Skyfaller said:

... so WG thinks Yamato's UU is too over the top because it increased a measly 6% the refire rate while it penalized its already GLACIAL rotation rate by 19% (now 13%) and because it provided 'double bonus' with the second bonus being the utterly irrelevant to long range fire 'reduction of dispersion' ...which was horizontal only not vertical reduction which is why its irrelevant and functionally pointless at long range. Newsflash: 13% lower rotation of an already punishingly glacial rotation is STILL A TERRIBLY SLOW ROTATION. 

....

But they think Kremlin's UU increasing already monster damage output by 18 whopping percent in refire rate is 'balanced out' by reducing max firing range by 12% on a ship which already didn't bother to fire at long range to begin with?

Just math it out... 12% reduction of 20.6 km is an OH MY GOD SO HORRIBLE LOSS OF JUST 2.4KM OF RANGE!!!!!! And its a 2.4km that no Kremlin bothers to take shots at due to it not getting its magical fantasy accuracy bonus. 

 So, Kremlin with the current 12% reload main battery mod 3 drops its 33s reload down to 29 seconds.... with the UU it drops down to   27s. 

...and a loss of one consumable which is irrelevant given we all now have 'premium' +1 charges as well as there being a captain skill that gives you +1 as well as the soviet bias kunetskov (sp?) captain giving the ship a free heal just by getting low in health. 

 

This 'balancing' is not fair or equivalent. 

 

How about trying to change the UUs and implement the Kremlin UU with some integrity? Give it one pro and one con and then one minor utility. 

 

Yamato:

Pro: Reduce VERTICAL dispersion by 20% 

Con: Increase HORIZONTAL dispersion by 10%

Utility: Increase max range of main and secondaries by 10%

 

Kremlin:

Pro: Reduce rmain gun reload time by 20% 

Con: Reduce turret rotation rate by 10%

Utility: Increase max range of main and secondaries by 10%

 

That alone makes both Kremlin and Yamato gain a good bonus on their primary means of dealing damage.. Yamato by having more accuracy at long range (where vertical primarily determines hit rate not the horizontal) but worsens close range accuracy (horizontal spread out more) and Kremlin gets its faster rate of fire to deal damage but it loses rotation rate on the main turret which affects its ability to snap switch targets at closer ranges.. so BOTH gain and lose equally. 

 

...but the change WG implements now is utter nonsense. Kremlin gets full benefits with zero applicable cons to it. 

The kremlin uu only decreases the reload by 6% over the normal upgrade and takes away the turret debuff (which doesn't matter anyways as the Kremlin turrets turn very fast). So, you gain 6% to reload and slightly faster turret rotation for...abysmal range, one less dcp, and one less heal. Especially in the current meta, this is awful. Soviet bias through right? Also, Yamato uu definitely needed a nerf. Now it is similar to the monty where you choose between much better reload, or accuracy (aka a sidegrade). 

Edited by eagle_lance
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2 minutes ago, Skyfaller said:

You think so? Kremlin vertical is significantly better than Yamatos at all ranges. Even 19km. 

Losing 2.4km is not hurting the ship at all as its a range that is closed in quickly and it is a range the ship does not engage in for the majority of the battle. The consumable loss does not hurt it in the least because it is regained by multiple means and given for free via captain perk just for getting low in health... Yamato has to get 5 kills to get a heal imagine that. Furthermore there is no better 'tank' capability than that of taking out damage sources and Kremlin with faster ROF certainly will do that. 

You cant compare Kremlin to Yamato. Two entirely different playstyles, stats, UUs, and balancing measures to match.

 

Personally I probably wont touch Kremlins UU with a 10 foot pole unless it is a super small scale battle (3v3 CBs, 5v5 ranked, or something of the sorts). If you want to play with one less DCP and heal, the only thing stopping you is 20k RP:Smile_Default:

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1 minute ago, Skyfaller said:

 

You think so? Kremlin vertical is significantly better than Yamatos at all ranges. Even 19km. 

Losing 2.4km is not hurting the ship at all as its a range that is closed in quickly and it is a range the ship does not engage in for the majority of the battle. The consumable loss does not hurt it in the least because it is regained by multiple means and given for free via captain perk just for getting low in health... Yamato has to get 5 kills to get a heal imagine that. Furthermore there is no better 'tank' capability than that of taking out damage sources and Kremlin with faster ROF certainly will do that. 

 

image.thumb.png.50b2d7d4412c9da5de5e77e72d37abab.png

Which was my point: Kremlin have better vertical dispersion (tho worst horizontal), similar if not higher pen and better velocity.

 

And no, it does hurt the ships. First, it's create a whopping 22% less area that you can affect with your shells.  On a slow ship like Kremlin, it do hurt a lot. It also put you within range of ship with no capacity to fire back: Zao with the range mod, Hindenburger with range mod, Yoshino, Thunderer, Conqueror... witch ain't great.

 

Plus, if the mode force you to

589.thumb.jpg.06ef6f16b093a0ac488f18873ef96e48.jpg

 

it also drop your survivability by removing one of your Damage Control and one of your heal. So you end up with a bargain between fire rate, more specialization yet more fragile.

 

Meanwhile Yamato's upgrade improve your capacity over range, with no downgrade to your range capacity.

 

 

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The real discussion should be why are these called "Upgrades"? some of the old ones were ok but none were ever OP and most are flat out not worth it. Rather than calling them "Unique Upgrades", because again they aren't upgrades, let's call them "Meh Modules". :Smile_hiding: 

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The Kremlin UU literally nerfs the ship

 

3 hours ago, Skyfaller said:

 But they think Kremlin's UU increasing already monster damage output by 18 whopping percent in refire rate is 'balanced out' by reducing max firing range by 12% on a ship which already didn't bother to fire at long range to begin with?

It does not increase damage output by 18%, it increases it by 6% over the reload upgrade in exchange for 2.5 km of range, a heal and a repair.

Edited by WernerHerzdog

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Kremlin and Kleber’s UU are competing to see which one makes the ship its built for worse. Kremlin’s UU gives you...

6% better reload (2sec)

about 4sec faster turret traverse (literally irrelevant due to fast turrets)

in exchange for...

range goes down to about 17km, which can be matched/outranged by every T10 cruiser

Loss of dam con and heal, greatly limiting tankiness and how aggressive you can play, a complete contradiction to the purpose this UU wants to achieve. 
So if you want to nerf one of the strongest T10 BBs, here you go.

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25 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

The real discussion should be why are these called "Upgrades"? some of the old ones were ok but none were ever OP and most are flat out not worth it. Rather than calling them "Unique Upgrades", because again they aren't upgrades, let's call them "Meh Modules". :Smile_hiding: 

Agree with this totally.  Why call it an upgrade at all?  The new reasoning is that they offer an alternative playstyle to a ship, a sideways playstyle.  IMO, they are just like any other module a ship has to choose from.  Except WG couldn't charge for them if they were just grouped in with all of the others.

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Wish they would let us now demount these "upgrades" for free. We mounted them at what we thought was their apparent worth, now  IMO they are worth much less.

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You're being overly dramatic OP.  Kremlin's Legendary looks questionable.  Example Kremlin build with the new Legendary.

For +6% better reload over MBM3, the Legendary knocks off -1 consumable and reduces gun range.

 

The loss of gun range brings her down to 18.2km.  Annoying, but still doable.

But the real loss is -1 consumable.  Even with Superintendent, the DCP max charge will be reduced to 4 and Repair Party down to 3.

 

I don't know about you guys, but when I played my Battleships in Randoms, even my regular BBs milked every Repair Party charge for its worth.  Kremlin with Legendary is giving up staying power.  3 RP charges is slumming it.  4 DCP charges is dicey even with SI trait.

 

IMO, Kremlin is better off with MBM3 instead of the Legendary.  The reload is an okay 29.04 seconds and she will have 5 DCP and 4 RP charges, and still be able to try and blap someone at 20.6km.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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10 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The loss of gun range brings her down to 18.2km.  Annoying, but still doable.

But the real loss is -1 consumable.  Even with Superintendent, the DCP max charge will be reduced to 4 and Repair Party down to 3.

The low range compounds losing the consumable, because everyone will salivate about burning your widely hated ship down even harder when they realize you're not able to fire at anything 19km or above. That'll be a giant red flag that you have -1 consumable.

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1 hour ago, MnemonScarlet said:

The low range compounds losing the consumable, because everyone will salivate about burning your widely hated ship down even harder when they realize you're not able to fire at anything 19km or above. That'll be a giant red flag that you have -1 consumable.

I just hope nobody actually got this Legendary.  It looks awful.

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3 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

I just hope nobody actually got this Legendary.  It looks awful.

The Harugumo one is probably the only unique upgrade worth getting due to its drastic change of the smoke consumable and changing it into a crawling smoke essentially.

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