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Merc_R_Us

Does anyone think CVs are perfectly balanced?

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Every week we see a post saying CV players think they are balanced, yet I can only find two people max who think they are. 

If you think CVs are balanced, please let me know right here. I'll be honest I want to see your stats. I'd be hard pressed to find a unicum level person who thinks they are. 

Edit: I'm going to read each of these replies when I get the chance. On baby duty right now. I do actually appreciate all the responses that are thought out.

Edit 2: 6 People feel carriers are reasonably balance thus far in this thread. I think we can stop talking in generalities about 'CV Players." I probably should have just made this a poll because I feel some of you spent a lot of effort on responding to this and I don't think I provided enough context into what balanced means, and I shouldn't have said "perfectly." 

Edited by Merc_R_Us
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Joke post right?

never was, never will be, because they never can be.

Edited by bosco1111
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I can think of at least 5-8 people on these forums that think they are.  Funny part is none of my friends or people I meet in a match ever say they are, unless I get to unfortunately meet those same individuals in the match.

Go to the CV threads that discuss the class' issues, and you'll see the same few names that defend them.  My recommendation is to just give your opinion and ignore those few.

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4 minutes ago, bosco1111 said:

Joke post right?

never was, never will be, because they never can be.

Not a joke.

Never was, definitely can be I think.

but I'm really just trying to find these people that think the CV's are balanced because apparently there are so many of them that we have to have those posts all the time.

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13 minutes ago, Merc_R_Us said:

Every week we see a post saying CV players think they are balanced, yet I can only find two people max who think they are. 

If you think CVs are balanced, please let me know right here. I'll be honest I want to see your stats. I'd be hard pressed to find a unicum level person who thinks they are. 

 

Very, very few players think CVs are “perfectly balanced.” However, there is a huge difference between CVs being “perfectly balanced” and “OMG, CVs are so OP! They’re ruining the game!”

The vast majority of players’ opinions lie somewhere in between, and any attempt to portray the debate as a binary argument between these two sentiments is ignorant at best, and disingenuous at worst.

Edited by Nevermore135
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12 minutes ago, Merc_R_Us said:

Every week we see a post saying CV players think they are balanced, yet I can only find two people max who think they are. 

If you think CVs are balanced, please let me know right here. I'll be honest I want to see your stats. I'd be hard pressed to find a unicum level person who thinks they are. 

 

You set the bar high at "perfectly" balanced. I would have to say no.  

Do they ruin the game for me when playing other classes?  No, with the exception of when I play a particularly low AA ship like Asashio.  However, I can see the need to counter such ships with their low concealment and high alpha.   

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Just now, CaliburxZero said:

I can think of at least 5-8 people on these forums that think they are.  Funny part is none of my friends or people I meet in a match ever say they are, unless I get to unfortunately meet those same individuals in the match.

Go to the CV threads that discuss the class' issues, and you'll see the same few names that defend them.  My recommendation is to just give your opinion and ignore those few.

I can certainly think of a few names on these forums but think they are balanced. However, not many of them are not at a above average level in them.

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1 minute ago, Nevermore135 said:

Very, very few players think CVs are “perfectly balanced.” However, there is a huge difference between CVs being “perfectly balanced” and “OMG, CVs are so OP! They’re ruining the game!”

The vast majority of players’ opinions lie somewhere in between, and any attempt to portray the debate as a binary argument between these two arguments is ignorant at best, and disingenuous at worst.

I couldn't agree more. It is certainly disingenuous and constantly on these forums people want to keep taking both far sides of the spectrum. So I'm waiting here to see who is exactly on the far side of the"CVS are perfectly balanced" end because they're apparently so many lol

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16 minutes ago, Merc_R_Us said:

Every week we see a post saying CV players think they are balanced, yet I can only find two people max who think they are. 

If you think CVs are balanced, please let me know right here. I'll be honest I want to see your stats. I'd be hard pressed to find a unicum level person who thinks they are. 

 

Seriously, what ships in this game above tier 3 are perfectly balanced? 

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7 minutes ago, Merc_R_Us said:

I can certainly think of a few names on these forums but think they are balanced. However, not many of them are not at a above average level in them.

Of course.  They don't understand the game well, or just what a good player is capable of when picking up a CV or anything else.

To them, CVs are one of two things:  A tool they can abuse and refuse to admit and covet that power, or players who get slammed in a match and wouldn't know the difference to begin with.  In the end, there's one thing that's clear about the community and CVs:  The more skilled you are at the game, the likelyhood you approve of CVs dives down exponentially.  The inverse is also true.  And no matter how much those same few kick, cry, and scream here on the forums, social media, in game, or whatever else... this is a fact that will forever remain constant and it doesn't matter what server you play Warships on.

And there's really good reason for why this is so.

Here's some logic i'll add before I sleep:  If you are forced to hard cap what ship type you play in a RANDOM battle, aka what this game is centered around (and don't even try to feed me the nonsense when it comes to competitive format(s) on balance as the limits are for very different reasons) and you're the only class that is... it probably means you aren't healthy for the game.  But hey-- If people here want to say CVs are balanced so much, they'll be okay with matches that allow for 4-6 CVs per match right? Let those people playtest that too, for everyone to watch.  I'll bring the popcorn.

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My personal opinion is that CV's are totally borked. As a test, may be during one of the ST platforms, WG should have a "no CV" battle choice, kind of like they did with subs. Get some data on exactly how many WOULD choose to play with CV's. Then decide on some good data. But this will never happen because we know where the results will point.

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19 minutes ago, Merc_R_Us said:

Every week we see a post saying CV players think they are balanced, yet I can only find two people max who think they are. 

If you think CVs are balanced, please let me know right here. I'll be honest I want to see your stats. I'd be hard pressed to find a unicum level person who thinks they are. 

 

I don't think they are balanced but they aren't the devil either.... My dd stats are fine against them. But I believe my winrate with them is more of the red dd adapting less than I do. The reason the unicum would like them even less would be because they can't just run on their own and farm the way they want... Cvs force you to play closer to your team.... I probably win at a higher rate with them than without though..... You might not like my opinion but I play both cv and DDS... I have a pretty decent idea how both work. 

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27 minutes ago, Merc_R_Us said:

Every week we see a post saying CV players think they are balanced, yet I can only find two people max who think they are. 

If you think CVs are balanced, please let me know right here. I'll be honest I want to see your stats. I'd be hard pressed to find a unicum level person who thinks they are. 

 

Yet ANOTHER post saying there are many posts about a subject that is posted about 50 times a week with the same questions asked 10000 different ways.  Really??

aaaaa200 (2).gif

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4 minutes ago, Meta_Man said:

I don't think they are balanced but they aren't the devil either.... My dd stats are fine against them. But I believe my winrate with them is more of the red dd adapting less than I do. The reason the unicum would like them even less would be because they can't just run on their own and farm the way they want... Cvs force you to play closer to your team.... I probably win at a higher rate with them than without though..... You might not like my opinion but I play both cv and DDS... I have a pretty decent idea how both work. 

I recommended your last video on Le Terrible in another anti-cv thread because of your attitude towards YOUR play style. If we could get everyone thinking along those lines, the game would far healthier. 

How'd you put it? Something like "there's a reason they built them the way they did" which means to be good with them, you need to understand them. Right? 

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15 minutes ago, Merc_R_Us said:

So I'm waiting here to see who is exactly on the far side of the"CVS are perfectly balanced" end because they're apparently so many lol

If 2% of the population claimed the sky was yellow, and a larger fraction (let’s say 5%) claimed it was purple instead, does that change the fact that the sky is blue?

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35 minutes ago, Merc_R_Us said:

Every week we see a post saying CV players think they are balanced, yet I can only find two people max who think they are. 

If you think CVs are balanced, please let me know right here. I'll be honest I want to see your stats. I'd be hard pressed to find a unicum level person who thinks they are. 

 

Soooo, "Perfectly Balanced "&

And only concerned with what "unicum" level people think.

Good that you have an open mind here. :cap_wander:

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I just don't know what all the fuss is about. :cap_hmm:In CoOp the only time CVs are annoying is when you sail in a straight line. And finding them at the end of a match of course.:Smile_hiding:

 

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18 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

I recommended your last video on Le Terrible in another anti-cv thread because of your attitude towards YOUR play style. If we could get everyone thinking along those lines, the game would far healthier. 

How'd you put it? Something like "there's a reason they built them the way they did" which means to be good with them, you need to understand them. Right? 

Thanks for the compliment Herr_Reitz , Exactly . Each ship has different attributes. If you play to some strengths but ignore your weaknesses you will suffer. As an example let us use the Haland , I seen an anti Air hate against the Haland post last week. Complaining her AA is to strong. If you are a cv and keep attacking a Haland thats your fault, in that situation the correct play would get a ship in position to kill the haland as you spot him with planes. Yes your planes will die but he will die also. If the haland fights a kleber ,Marceau and the like heads up that is the Halands fault. When I am in my Kidd I play to protect my team with AA , cap and kill DDS....In my Le Terrible I play close to my team till I see planes then act accordingly  but my goals are different with my AA capabilities. Le Terrible I am the boogie man and no one is safe .In the kidd I am more protection than attacking like my Le Terrible. If you try to make the ship something it is not it is your fault...My Youtube channel is Meta_Man2002 check out my how to deal with CVs video and others , if you find them helpful please subscribe. Good luck captains.

Edited by Meta_Man

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1 hour ago, Merc_R_Us said:

Every week we see a post saying CV players think they are balanced, yet I can only find two people max who think they are. 

If you think CVs are balanced, please let me know right here. I'll be honest I want to see your stats. I'd be hard pressed to find a unicum level person who thinks they are. 

 

I get about the same damage whether BB, CA, CL, or CV.

So yes I would say there balanced.

Edited by jags_domain
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Perfectly balanced, no. Reasonable well balanced, yes, which is about as good as anyone can hope to get. Far better balanced than DD's, who have for years been screaming about Hydro, Radar, Battleship's being able to blab them before they can run up and kill the BB with torps, CV's, crying when OWSF was removed, the adding of detection changes when firing guns in smoke, and the list goes on. It's almost like DD's need the game changed so that they can be good, at the expense of everything and everyone else.

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Does it even matter what people believe? Players can believe whatever they want and quarrel for ages but in the end it doesn't make an impact in most cases.

Because bottom line there's two metrics by which WG balances, and that's popularity and spreadsheets. If it's to WG's satisfaction then CV are perfectly balanced for their goals. 

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Balance is subjective. There will always be a % that say they are OP while others say they are weak. The majority will fall somewhere in the middle. The same can be said of every class though. I mean it's not like I've ever seen threads from BB mains saying they love DDs and want more of them in each battle.

FWIW I don't think they're in to bad a place currently. Not every battle has a CV in it and when there is one it makes you play the battle differently. Without variety the game would become very stale very quickly.

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12 minutes ago, contag10n said:

Soooo, "Perfectly Balanced "&

And only concerned with what "unicum" level people think.

Good that you have an open mind here. :cap_wander:

Actually the 2 most hurt by CVs is really new  players and the unicums. The new or stubborn players die because they do not know better, the unicums do not like them because it constricts their playstyle ..Brings them closer to the average or good players.

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CVs are much better now than they were. CVs almost never ruin a match for me the way they did earlier this year.  I run with AA buffs most of the time now and shot down hordes of aircraft when CVs are in the match.  I'm happy enough with where they are at right now.

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No ship class are perfectly balanced for all circumstance.

Take a Hakuryu in a match against 3 Halland and 4 Minotaur, you will not find yourself doing that much.

Take the same ship against 3 Kelber and 4 Zao, and you are a god in the middle of the men.

 

Just like for the DD:

Take a Shima against 1 Midway, 2 Moskva, 2 Des Moines and 2 Kleber and you will struggle.

Take the same Shima against 1 Yamato, 2 Hindenburg, 2 Yoshino and 2 Khab and you will feel quite better.

 

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