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Bowthorn

Removing/nerfing torpedoes in Coop battles

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Hi all, is there a reasonable, sustainable, and logical argument for removing or severely nerfing torpedoes in Coop Battles?

For example, would it;

a. Reduce the amount of substantial damage caused by DD's to enemy ships?

b. Enable a fairer distribution of damage points to teammates because DD's will be unable to glean to majority of damage points? and/or

c. Reduce the amount of DD damage to teammates?

I suspect others could add to the above list. All reasoned supporting of diverging views are welcome.

Cheers.

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There is not really a good argument for removing or nerfing them. Just push forward and put some AP in the broadside of a bot if you are in another ship. You can walk away with huge damage totals in nearly any ship in coop if you know what you are doing.

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I play DDs AND BBs AND CLS on COOP and am in the top 4 or better 80% of the time.

This complaint is just tiresome.

I would post the 5 kill number one I just did right before seeing this post but it was in my Smol and I don't want to hear about that excuse.  

If you can play your ship you will do well.  If in a CL CA or BB you can FARM damage and kills before the DDs even get into range. 

In a DD in COOP you have to rush in suicide close or the bots simply dodge and even then sometimes that still do.

Work on your own skills and stop waiting to get point blank with your ship and use those gunz!!:cap_rambo:

 

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39 minutes ago, Bowthorn said:

Hi all, is there a reasonable, sustainable, and logical argument for removing or severely nerfing torpedoes in Coop Battles?

For example, would it;

a. Reduce the amount of substantial damage caused by DD's to enemy ships?

b. Enable a fairer distribution of damage points to teammates because DD's will be unable to glean to majority of damage points? and/or

c. Reduce the amount of DD damage to teammates?

I suspect others could add to the above list. All reasoned supporting of diverging views are welcome.

Cheers.

No

A: Why?

B: Play a DD and really see the deficiency of points won.

C: Again Why?

To nerf the DD would be just DUMB

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1 minute ago, Nikolay_Kuznetsov_ said:

A: Why?

C: Again Why?

That was my question. He didn't make clear 'why' he wanted to do that.

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I spent the afternoon grinding the Zao's legendary upgrade and managed to complete the 30 destroyed mission without even trying. Most of those kills were main battery and multiple fires.

This just seems like another  "mean DD stopped me from getting big damage numbah!" masquerading as a legit topic.

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As others have pointed out, you need to be aggressive.  If you are always waiting for that "prefect shot", you are just setting yourself up to fail.  At the same time, if you are potato about your aggressiveness, bots will hand your tail back to you in a brown paper sack marked "Pre-Used".

 

Numerous times I've seen DD's sweep quick, and I've done it myself when I use a DD.  There are times when I'm in a slow ship that spawned on one side of the map, and bots decide to go the other way.  Usually on Two Brothers...blasted bots. :Smile-angry:  It happens.  But one thing I am not going to do is wait for you to get your "perfect shot", regardless of what ship class I play.  You are not the only one who has service costs to deal with.

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1 hour ago, Bowthorn said:

Hi all, is there a reasonable, sustainable, and logical argument for removing or severely nerfing torpedoes in Coop Battles?

No.

You seem to be operating under the assumption that co-op is actually a cooperative mode.  That misconception is understandable; after all, it's literally named "co-op".  If it was actually, truly cooperative, everyone would get the same XP.

It isn't cooperative.  It's an adversarial race for damage.  You are not competing against the bots, you are competing against your team-mates for damage, kills, and XP.

A DD alpha strike is in it's torps.  If you nerf torp damage, you would be able to make the same argument for disallowing citadel hits from BB/CA guns.  Alpha strike is important, because the bots die so fast that DOT effectiveness is severely reduced.

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let DDs have their haven in Coop, its the only place left in the game where CVs cant take them out with 2 passes 2 minutes into the game

Edited by tcbaker777
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3 hours ago, Tekina_ said:

There is not really a good argument for removing or nerfing them. Just push forward and put some AP in the broadside of a bot if you are in another ship. You can walk away with huge damage totals in nearly any ship in coop if you know what you are doing.

There is some random element in it.  Sometimes in a slow ship, you'll get screwed because of where you spawn...but the next coop match, you may take out a slow old US Standard and clean up.  IMO, it all balances out.  

Yeah, no need for what the OP is calling for.

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3 hours ago, Bowthorn said:

Hi all, is there a reasonable, sustainable, and logical argument for removing or severely nerfing torpedoes in Coop Battles?

For example, would it;

a. Reduce the amount of substantial damage caused by DD's to enemy ships?

b. Enable a fairer distribution of damage points to teammates because DD's will be unable to glean to majority of damage points? and/or

c. Reduce the amount of DD damage to teammates?

I suspect others could add to the above list. All reasoned supporting of diverging views are welcome.

Cheers.

NO.  None.  COOP is PVE.  It's there for fun...... 

COOP is the only reason some of us are still playing this game.....   I wonder what would happen if all of the COOP mains petitioned that Random mains be excluded from COOP to farm event requirements; or say, Radar no longer is available in Randoms???  After all, that is an excruciating, painful and ruinous, Wa disturbing  exercise COOP main players face every event.....  Naw, we like COOP as it is.........with all of it's faults and lower valued benefits !

3 hours ago, Col_Nasty said:

I play DDs AND BBs AND CLS on COOP and am in the top 4 or better 80% of the time.

This complaint is just tiresome.

I would post the 5 kill number one I just did right before seeing this post but it was in my Smol and I don't want to hear about that excuse.  

If you can play your ship you will do well.  If in a CL CA or BB you can FARM damage and kills before the DDs even get into range. 

In a DD in COOP you have to rush in suicide close or the bots simply dodge and even then sometimes that still do.

Work on your own skills and stop waiting to get point blank with your ship and use those gunz!!:cap_rambo:

There you go, letting the Cat out of the bag........  You assume those visiting players in COOP could hit the broad side of a barn door........right....???  No.  I'm like you.  I take a Yammy, a Kitty or my favorite, my Fabuki and either way, I end up with damage and kills....  Your example is my example of the 30 kills for 22 flags.  Done in 9, 19 point CPT'd ships played twice.........  And, yes, that ship we can not mention is one of them.........  :cap_haloween:

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Just now, Tekina_ said:

There is not really a good argument for removing or nerfing them. Just push forward and put some AP in the broadside of a bot if you are in another ship. You can walk away with huge damage totals in nearly any ship in coop if you know what you are doing.

That would be fine, but the battle is often over before the bots do anything other than present broadside.  DDs, and to a lesser degree torpedo armed cruisers, dominate co-op because they have non-RNG based burst alpha damage.

For DDs in co-op I noticed the change to ludicrously OP in co-op happened when BB AP could not longer do full penetration damage to them.  Once that happened there was nothing to stop DDs from rushing in to point blank range and sending an unavoidable wall of torpedoes at the poor bot BB.  All that is required is for the DD player to be a bit conservative until the bot DDs are sunk. Bot CLs are also dangerous, but bot CAs, BBs and CVs may as well be unarmed freighters for all DDs care.

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Push up and don't be such a wuss in Co-op.  The only valid complaints are from guys in 21kt Battleships as the game is literally over before they hit full speed.  Everybody else can close range and blap stuff.

 

If you're in a Bismarck-class, Massachusetts and are trying to play safe in the back, which I've often seen a lot of, then you're doing it wrong.

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5 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Push up and don't be such a wuss in Co-op.  The only valid complaints are from guys in 21kt Battleships as the game is literally over before they hit full speed.  Everybody else can close range and blap stuff.

Even then, unless you just get spawned in the back forty, or spawn on the 'wrong' side, I still get finishes in the top 3 fairly often.  Took WV41 out a couple days ago.  3 out of 5 finishes in the top 3 in this old slow BB.  I don't ever back out of the throttle unless I have a reason to, though, on something that slow.  Got a nice 36K salvo on a New York.  I think I left just a sliver for the DD's torps.  You win some, you lose some.

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29 minutes ago, Kirov_Six said:

Even then, unless you just get spawned in the back forty, or spawn on the 'wrong' side, I still get finishes in the top 3 fairly often.  Took WV41 out a couple days ago.  3 out of 5 finishes in the top 3 in this old slow BB.  I don't ever back out of the throttle unless I have a reason to, though, on something that slow.  Got a nice 36K salvo on a New York.  I think I left just a sliver for the DD's torps.  You win some, you lose some.

There's a lot of people that try to play conservatively in Co-op.  This isn't Randoms.  The game is over in 3-5 minutes, so sitting far back being safe means one isn't going to get sh*t.

 

If one isn't, as you said, spawned in a bad spot where there's nothing to fight, aggressive play will get you good results.  Hell, for Co-op, I've switched out APRM2 out of my Tier IX-X USN BBs in Slot 6 for AAM2, slapped on SBM1 and got a Secondaries Build going on them.  I very rarely shoot at 15km+ range, almost all my BB gunfire is below that, often in the Mega Secondaries range of 11km or less.

Edit: F**, I have Sinop and Ashitaka, a myriad of non-Mega Secondaries Battleships with Secondary Spec because I play aggressively.  These "slow" Battleships can still easily carve out what they want in these short Co-op games.  Also my Alaska since I do Co-op.  I swap this captain between AK and MO.

9YKVD9q.jpgmg7EFvI.jpg

 

You have to play aggressive or you aren't getting sh*t.  Again, these games are over in 3-5 minutes.  To me it's a competition to get whatever I can and leave nothing else.

giphy.gif

 

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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You can't fix Co-op like that, You have to get the "Pro's from Dover" to go back to playing Random and Ranked. Because Random is constantly a totally lope sided battle many above average players have opted to play Co-op, at least you can win those.

Fix Random and Co-op will fix it's self.

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4 hours ago, ExploratorOne said:

The bots in PvE have magic torpedo beats.  I really don't think they need any help against torps.

I have wondered who is the better torpedo dodger, humans or the bots? Though I guess both have their potatoes, some of the bot BBs seem to be really good. I guess I would have the play randoms to see.

But perhaps the OP can check the performance of the European DDs as their torps are power nerfed as they are.

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No need to nerf torps on DD's. What should be looked into is capping the max allowed on the team in Co-op. Games with 3, and even worse 4, DD's is pretty bad most games for the other ship classes. DD's are the most OP ship class in Co-op due to how the mode works. It is not even close.

With just 9 ships total p/ side the DD's can take it all leaving everyone else out of luck.  2 p/ side IMO would be ideal but 3 max. 4 is just too darn many. This would give other ship classes a chance too.

Edited by AdmiralThunder
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10 hours ago, Col_Nasty said:

I play DDs AND BBs AND CLS on COOP and am in the top 4 or better 80% of the time.

This complaint is just tiresome.

I would post the 5 kill number one I just did right before seeing this post but it was in my Smol and I don't want to hear about that excuse.  

If you can play your ship you will do well.  If in a CL CA or BB you can FARM damage and kills before the DDs even get into range. 

In a DD in COOP you have to rush in suicide close or the bots simply dodge and even then sometimes that still do.

Work on your own skills and stop waiting to get point blank with your ship and use those gunz!!:cap_rambo:

 

NOPE.  The bots will target the first ship sighted, usually NOT a DD if the player is smart.  Once the bots target a player the bots will stay after them, even if the bot has 2-3 targets within 5km away, the bot will still shoot at the originally spotted target on the other side of the map.  This is the problem....bot targeting.  The bot will ignore a closing DD because it is programed to target the still sighted first sighted target.  Easy kill for the DD.....zero skill, huge reward.

 I have done it many times.....

First player spotted gets focused fire upon by all the bots.....

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5 hours ago, GrayPanther2018 said:

I have wondered who is the better torpedo dodger, humans or the bots? Though I guess both have their potatoes, some of the bot BBs seem to be really good. I guess I would have the play randoms to see.

But perhaps the OP can check the performance of the European DDs as their torps are power nerfed as they are.

damn near impossible to torp a bot ship at long distance as they are the masters of constantly changing their speeds.  That is why DD players go in for point blanks torp shots....

 

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