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CapnCazuul

Visibility question

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OK so I'm in Fiji, random battle. Everything going ok. I find myself at the edge of the map with a Lyon about 10km away, emerging from behind an island. I hit him with a few rounds of HE then smoke up. He vanishes immediately, but I just chalked it up to him possibly being at the edge of his stealth or something. I never see him again, which seems odd. A good amount of time goes by... too long. I shoot some torps his way and get ready to turn the other side toward him for a better shot whenever I detect him... suddenly there he is, at the extreme edge of the map (like 2km or less from me) blazing away. I was dead before I could figure it out.

What happened here? Why could I not see the Lyon until he was 2km away or less, is it something about my smoke? I don't ever remember any issues like this before.

Thanks/Cheers

PS Also there was no other ship or smoke screen around.

Edited by sirwill1972
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Sir Will,

Based off of what you are describing, I have a potential answer.  Smoke works both ways.  If no one else can see the other ship that ship is blind to the one in smoke.  Then it becomes the assured acquisition distance or the distance when firing in smoke that takes over if the person is actually firing weapons.  Not sure about Lyon's acquisition distances.  You can check in game by pushing the H key and it will list a lot of information for you.  Were you by chance running your hydro?  I think that Fiji has it.  Also your statement about firing HE is a little confusing.  Fiji does not have HE.

C130 signing out 

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Well noone spotted him after you smoked up and from the sounds of it he didn't bother shooting allowing him to sneak up to the miniumal guarantee detection

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10 minutes ago, Hercules_C130 said:

Sir Will,

Based off of what you are describing, I have a potential answer.  Smoke works both ways.  If no one else can see the other ship that ship is blind to the one in smoke.  Then it becomes the assured acquisition distance or the distance when firing in smoke that takes over if the person is actually firing weapons.  Not sure about Lyon's acquisition distances.  You can check in game by pushing the H key and it will list a lot of information for you.  Were you by chance running your hydro?  I think that Fiji has it.  Also your statement about firing HE is a little confusing.  Fiji does not have HE.

C130 signing out 

You're right about not firing HE since I couldn't have. It was AP of course. Been playing too long tonight heh. In any case no BB should be invisible at 2 km unless it is itself in smoke, at least that's what I thought. I was running my hydro since I was a little worried there might have been an enemy DD swooping in, but that wouldn't have changed the distance at which I should have seen the Lyon, and if it did, well then I give up on ever understanding this game. I wonder if it was some, er, effect by way of the BB running down the border line at the edge of the map. I really just want to find out how this BB could get to well within a DD's acquisition distance before I saw it at all when I was actively looking for it for a good minute at least while sitting in smoke. Anyway thanks for the reply C130.

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21 minutes ago, Muki41 said:

Well noone spotted him after you smoked up and from the sounds of it he didn't bother shooting allowing him to sneak up to the miniumal guarantee detection

He popped from invis at like 2 km from me. Granted I was in a smoke screen. Still I don't understand how he could do that with no other ships/smoke around.

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19 minutes ago, sirwill1972 said:

He popped from invis at like 2 km from me. Granted I was in a smoke screen. Still I don't understand how he could do that with no other ships/smoke around.

Your vision blocked by Smoke, with noone assisting to spot him he by all means is unspotted meaning he can sneak up on you

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35 minutes ago, sirwill1972 said:

He popped from invis at like 2 km from me. Granted I was in a smoke screen. Still I don't understand how he could do that with no other ships/smoke around.

If you smoke up with no one else on your team around to proxy spot then you will lose sight of a ship until (wait for it) they are 2km from you. There is an upgrade that extends that to 3 km.

2 km is the hard detection range where everyone is detected to each other whether in smoke, behind an island, etc.

Your hydro consumable would have helped greatly here if it was available to you.

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All ships are spotted at 2kms if line of sight is blocked. Line of sight is blocked by islands and smoke. Who’s smoke it is is 100% irrelevant, since it’s still obstructing vision even if you made it. If another ship on your team can see the red ship then you can, that’s just something you need to learn to use when figuring out where and when to smoke up.

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If you smoke up with no one spotting for you, you will lose all visibility on those ships outside your smoke.  You covered your own eyes.

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10 minutes ago, desmo_2 said:

If you smoke up with no one spotting for you, you will lose all visibility on those ships outside your smoke.  You covered your own eyes.

And thats exactly how the cops bust ya .

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2 hours ago, sirwill1972 said:

OK so I'm in Fiji, random battle. Everything going ok. I find myself at the edge of the map with a Lyon about 10km away, emerging from behind an island. I hit him with a few rounds of HE then smoke up. He vanishes immediately, but I just chalked it up to him possibly being at the edge of his stealth or something. I never see him again, which seems odd. A good amount of time goes by... too long. I shoot some torps his way and get ready to turn the other side toward him for a better shot whenever I detect him... suddenly there he is, at the extreme edge of the map (like 2km or less from me) blazing away. I was dead before I could figure it out.

What happened here? Why could I not see the Lyon until he was 2km away or less, is it something about my smoke? I don't ever remember any issues like this before.

Thanks/Cheers

PS Also there was no other ship or smoke screen around.

As others have said, smoke works both ways - your smoke provided some concealment for you, but also obscured your target. 

You probably havent noticed this in the past because either your had teammates spot for you, or the flash of the Lyon's guns would have made him visible to you (at certain ranges).  As such, normally you would have a target to see. 

Also, if your sonar was actually up, you would have spotted him at about 3km, not the 2km you did.  So either it had run out (which happens, and is super annoying), or you were advancing on him as he was advancing on you so by the time he rendered he was only about 2km away, or you thought you turned it on but forgot to (which also happens).  Even if you did spot him with your sonar, if you fired your guns he would have immediately spotted you and killed you - but you can use secondaries and torps without being spotted. 

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Lyon played it perfectly.  I do this all the time.  If a CA (or even a DD sometimes) smokes up and my detection drops, I know we can't see each other.  I'll often go quiet...because then I can't be detected...and bore straight at 'em.  At the assured acquisition distance...SURPRISE!!!   

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23 hours ago, sirwill1972 said:

You're right about not firing HE since I couldn't have. It was AP of course. Been playing too long tonight heh. In any case no BB should be invisible at 2 km unless it is itself in smoke, at least that's what I thought. I was running my hydro since I was a little worried there might have been an enemy DD swooping in, but that wouldn't have changed the distance at which I should have seen the Lyon, and if it did, well then I give up on ever understanding this game. I wonder if it was some, er, effect by way of the BB running down the border line at the edge of the map. I really just want to find out how this BB could get to well within a DD's acquisition distance before I saw it at all when I was actively looking for it for a good minute at least while sitting in smoke. Anyway thanks for the reply C130.

Will,

Your Hydro should have picked up a ship at its detection range which should have been greater than the 2 km.  Not sure what the ship detection range on Fiji for the Hydro is off the top of my head, but it is greater than 2 km.  Something does not sound right, but without a replay, I do not have a better answer for you.

I try to help where I can and you are most welcome.

C130 signing out

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Thanks for the replies, still not exactly sure how this happened but I'm gonna assume that (being new to using smoke) my own smoke screen blinded me until 2 km and that in the past I must have had help from other spotting of some kind, although I'm not sure of this. Still the replies here have clued me in.

Cheers

Edited by sirwill1972

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34 minutes ago, CapnCazuul said:

Thanks for the replies, still not exactly sure how this happened but I'm gonna assume that (being new to using smoke) my own smoke screen blinded me until 2 km and that in the past I must have had help from other spotting of some kind, although I'm not sure of this. Still the replies here have clued me in.

Cheers

Yes, in a one on one situation the smoke will blind you too. If the BB had fired his smoke bloom would have made him visible. Smoke can also blind teammates when the smoke is between the enemy and your team.

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1 hour ago, Admiral_Andy said:

Smoke can also blind teammates when the smoke is between the enemy and your team.

LOL I remember seeing this a bunch of times in Randoms! :Smile_teethhappy:

 

DD goes into the cap, tries to spot, then drops smoke across the whole horizon (always USN DD of course), camps the smoke.  Then proceeds to wonder why nobody is spotting for his DD and why nobody on his team is shooting.

 

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Note, if you and a close enemy are mutually blind due to your smoke, and you have a spotter plane (or even a fighter!), you can pop it and it will detect the enemy.  Of course, if the enemy ship has good AA, it will shoot it down...but at least you get the intel for the brief period it's up.  Sometimes that little bit of a spot is all you need to win the engagement, or at least avoid losing it..

Edited by Soshi_Sone
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