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jamesCOCOcokelet

dont see how people can defend how op cv are

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Just played rank, a CV killed our dd once we snuck around the island

and even missed on a strike with torpedo's on me, i was in a secondary spec bis and he still did most of the work on me.

He was faster than me or as fast, and fast enough to stay away from the dd.

 

the only reason i can see people saying this type of crap is not op is cause they like playing exploits. It is possible they love the game and like playing all, okay ill give them that. 

But since coming back into the game,  carriers add no enjoyment to the game for the opposite team and have too much impact on the game. What is there weakness, a lot of smart players used to say rock paper scissors.

What is it for carriers. bomb? that's it probably, only scissors can stop it, so it kills the other three. anyway, average player wont stay long in he game due to carriers, again. God i cant imagine the sub gameplay. 

Edited by jamesCOCOcokelet
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7 minutes ago, jamesCOCOcokelet said:

dont see how people can defend how op cv are

By jamesCOCOcokelet

Perhaps you lack vision?

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Take them out, don't bring in subs, and what remains is a game of surface combatants. DD, CA/CL, and BB with each a counter. Great, huh? Pipe dream...

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Isn't there the same amount on both sides? I don't play randoms anymore, but at least I wouldn't cry every time there were CVs present. The other team has the same amount of them except in clans where you choose your ships. If you decide to play random battles just accept it and play accordingly to your best ability. Then you can go to the next battle. Don't ever put your heart and soul into a battle, accept fate and move on, it's not real.

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11 hours ago, jamesCOCOcokelet said:

Just played rank, a CV killed our dd once we snuck around the island

and even missed on a strike with torpedo's on me, i was in a secondary spec bis and he still did most of the work on me.

He was faster than me or as fast, and fast enough to stay away from the dd.

 

the only reason i can see people saying this type of crap is not op is cause they like playing exploits. It is possible they love the game and like playing all, okay ill give them that. 

But since coming back into the game,  carriers add no enjoyment to the game for the opposite team and have too much impact on the game. What is there weakness, a lot of smart players used to say rock paper scissors.

What is it for carriers. bomb? that's it probably, only scissors can stop it, so it kills the other three. anyway, average player wont stay long in he game due to carriers, again. God i cant imagine the sub gameplay. 

Only people who think CVs are not OP are less skilled players. You would be hard pressed to find someone who thinks they are balanced at the Unicum level.

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On 7/30/2020 at 9:58 PM, jamesCOCOcokelet said:

Just played rank, a CV killed our dd once we snuck around the island

and even missed on a strike with torpedo's on me, i was in a secondary spec bis and he still did most of the work on me.

He was faster than me or as fast, and fast enough to stay away from the dd.

 

the only reason i can see people saying this type of crap is not op is cause they like playing exploits. It is possible they love the game and like playing all, okay ill give them that. 

But since coming back into the game,  carriers add no enjoyment to the game for the opposite team and have too much impact on the game. What is there weakness, a lot of smart players used to say rock paper scissors.

What is it for carriers. bomb? that's it probably, only scissors can stop it, so it kills the other three. anyway, average player wont stay long in he game due to carriers, again. God i cant imagine the sub gameplay. 

I'm not a pro CV player or a pro in anything else for a fact, but i am average and you know what ? CVs are hard to balance because the skill wall to get into them is not purely of tactics, its skill wall is of strategic thinking and minor tactical maneuvers in planes along with good decision making regarding risk reward and trade off of damage vs team support, the place they are in now, its not great but they aren't op, only pro players make them op  and that's because the skill wall vs skill floor is comparing the penthouse to the first floor of the Chrysler building. There simply  is no comparison due to the sheer distance and ability to perfect you can do in carriers.  I agree that they are somewhat overpowered, i would buff AA type ships like Atlanta and Wooster and the others, that's quite an atrocity the way they are now. But they screw up surface combat in game because they did in real life. the Bismark worked horribly in real life, but in  game its a monster when their aren't he spam cruisers. In a game some things are changed and some are kept the same. I think carriers aren't the problem right now, AA is. I think if you could buff AA to ships designed specifically for it, like what i mentioned earlier and left aa the same for the normal ships, hindy, yamato, italians, germans, britsih and other ships. AA is like a commodity, you trade firepower to get some, and you trade more firepower for an asset that is only useful when a CV is around, but when it is its a hammer of god. The problem isnt cv balancing itself, its that CVs, the moment they used float plane carriers in the battle of Jutland, they screwed up surface warfare rules, stealth dose'nt exist now, only the flight time of a plane does. You can only hope to fix cv's and tighten the skill gap along with kingmaker AA good on exclusively AA focused ships. AA cruisers, AA destroyers, american ships, enemy carriers. The way it is, carriers are like a duck, real surface combat slides off them, they can spot, damage, destroy and annihilate the piece of bread they want from across the pond but they are unstable and can be countered by someone throwing a rock (aa) in its general direction messing up its flight plan. And wargaming, their warships division has invested in these ducks to their zoo, the game, and these ducks they ruin their little fights, the ducks screw up and utterly destroy the narrative of firepower spotting armor, they ruin spotting making destroyers useless, making cruisers more important making he spam more potent and killing the turtles that are battleships. In the end people defend carriers because  what else could they do ? Wargaming invested heavily in a re work and the same problem emerged from before, SKILL FLOOR TOO HIGH, STALL STALL STALL, PULL DOWN [edited] [edited] [edited]!!!

If the rework that cost them probably half a million didn't work, what can, NOTHING, nothing but AA reworking for individual ships game wide could fix the problem, and they wont do that, which was our best option to make carriers balanced make individual ships that were good with AA as good as before or better so that dodging is harder and making them a no fly zone a strategic and tactical advantage for their team and teammates, somewhat balancing carriers in a game with them, but otherwise we have a constant struggle with cv's being overpowered or AA being used by every ship and having it be able to throw the game across the board against carriers.

Tl:DR Carriers are impossible to properly balance due to their strategic and tactical influence and screwing up stealth and their skill gap from skill floor to skill penthouse ceiling. An AA re balance game wide on each individual ship so that good aa is exclusive to certain ships, but  that make them death stars and making AA for average ships good if they get close enough for squad firepower. Wargaming has invested too much to straight up remove carriers and you have to live with it and try to get them to re balance AA.

 

Thanks for reading

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2 hours ago, EraserNZ1 said:

99% of people that defend cv's have really bad stats and have no clue how to play the game let alone know how balanced or good something is for the game.

Untill people stop spending money in game WG will not do anything drastic to balance them.

99% of statistics apparently are made up on the spot.

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Right their a lot of dumb DD BB players out there also that get rekt easily yet they blame CV :Smile_amazed: Could be it maybe you just need to get good :Smile_teethhappy: Also do you see CVs going into the DD forums section spreading salt when they get rekt by DDs :Smile_popcorn:Example of dumb DD player going into smoke staying in the same spot also a dumb move firing while in smoke giving your position away not turning off AA while in smoke as well :Smile_facepalm: I suck at DDs yet even I know this but apparently some tough guy DD players don't know this :fish_palm:

Edited by LastRemnant
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3 hours ago, LastRemnant said:

Right their a lot of dumb DD BB players out there also that get rekt easily yet they blame CV :Smile_amazed: Could be it maybe you just need to get good :Smile_teethhappy: Also do you see CVs going into the DD forums section spreading salt when they get rekt by DDs :Smile_popcorn:Example of dumb DD player going into smoke staying in the same spot also a dumb move firing while in smoke giving your position away not turning off AA while in smoke as well :Smile_facepalm: I suck at DDs yet even I know this but apparently some tough guy DD players don't know this :fish_palm:

Yes, someone who understands, most people in the game are mediocre most of the time, myself included.  We CV mains are the most likely to look at the game as a stragetic game of chess, next to non German ( On certain occasions, but having brawling ability makes it more tactical than strategic to play)  bb players, we are strategists, we think of the game in the long run, except graf zeppelin players, they are entirely tactical in my opinion, they know how to smack down cruisers with secondarys for gods sake. We rely on looking at the map like a board of chess where the pieces say screw you to our opinions and strategies most of the time and we only have the power to screw with the enemy ships in the form of showing them for our allys to kill and  dropping small care packages on them that do moderate to non existent damage if we are lucky. But we don't risk anything to get to it. We defend cv's because they are on another levle of play, we play chess not checkers. less so now as we have less raw firepower to put into play and less ability to do anything but kill destroyers and light cruisers precisely because they nerfed our ability to hit heavier ships. If all dd players were awesome gamer people and knew how every gun every torpedo every strategy worked, we would have a much harder time and would be near useless besides spotting from afar and being bored. Its not that the class is inherently op, its the people that play it.

Edited by Penguinattack27
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12 hours ago, LastRemnant said:

Right their a lot of dumb DD BB players out there also that get rekt easily yet they blame CV :Smile_amazed: Could be it maybe you just need to get good :Smile_teethhappy: Also do you see CVs going into the DD forums section spreading salt when they get rekt by DDs :Smile_popcorn:Example of dumb DD player going into smoke staying in the same spot also a dumb move firing while in smoke giving your position away not turning off AA while in smoke as well :Smile_facepalm: I suck at DDs yet even I know this but apparently some tough guy DD players don't know this :fish_palm:

 

9 hours ago, Penguinattack27 said:

Yes, someone who understands, most people in the game are mediocre most of the time, myself included.  We CV mains are the most likely to look at the game as a stragetic game of chess, next to non German ( On certain occasions, but having brawling ability makes it more tactical than strategic to play)  bb players, we are strategists, we think of the game in the long run, except graf zeppelin players, they are entirely tactical in my opinion, they know how to smack down cruisers with secondarys for gods sake. We rely on looking at the map like a board of chess where the pieces say screw you to our opinions and strategies most of the time and we only have the power to screw with the enemy ships in the form of showing them for our allys to kill and  dropping small care packages on them that do moderate to non existent damage if we are lucky. But we don't risk anything to get to it. We defend cv's because they are on another levle of play, we play chess not checkers. less so now as we have less raw firepower to put into play and less ability to do anything but kill destroyers and light cruisers precisely because they nerfed our ability to hit heavier ships. If all dd players were awesome gamer people and knew how every gun every torpedo every strategy worked, we would have a much harder time and would be near useless besides spotting from afar and being bored. Its not that the class is inherently op, its the people that play it.

Good posts.

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On 7/30/2020 at 6:58 PM, jamesCOCOcokelet said:

the only reason i can see people saying this type of crap is not op is cause they like playing exploits.

No, it's because they have skills that you don't.

Look, it's okay if you don't know something. It's okay (not useful, but forgivable) if you're upset that you don't know something. Channel that anger and improve
Just don't double-down on angry ignorance and insist that all the many people with superior skill or insight must be cheating: that's not very convincing and you don't look good.

Edited by imaginary_b

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On 7/30/2020 at 10:33 PM, Khafni said:

Take them out, don't bring in subs, and what remains is a game of surface combatants. DD, CA/CL, and BB with each a counter. Great, huh? Pipe dream...

And how would WG compensate those that own premium CVs? Especially the ones that had to gamble with crates to get Enterprise :)

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I've got  three premium CV from crates and one direct purchase. I would accept doubloons with at least one 25% discount coupon for a ship purchased with doubloons. WG wouldn't lose cash and players can use those dubs for other ships, perma cammo, premium time, etc.

I think WG reached too far with CV and subs.

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4 hours ago, Khafni said:

I've got  three premium CV from crates and one direct purchase. I would accept doubloons with at least one 25% discount coupon for a ship purchased with doubloons. WG wouldn't lose cash and players can use those dubs for other ships, perma cammo, premium time, etc.

I think WG reached too far with CV and subs.

i agree kind of..

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On 8/5/2020 at 10:34 AM, Khafni said:

I've got  three premium CV from crates and one direct purchase. I would accept doubloons with at least one 25% discount coupon for a ship purchased with doubloons. WG wouldn't lose cash and players can use those dubs for other ships, perma cammo, premium time, etc.

No, has to be a full on refund. If people spent money on those ships, it's a good chance the people wanted THAT ship and NOT doubloons. You could offer a 500% value of doubloons for each Premium CV they had lost, they could still have underlying legal issues. Remember Bethesda's nylon bag fiasco? Or Bethesda facing legal issues for not giving refunds when people didn't get exactly what they paid for?

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55 minutes ago, 6Xero9 said:

No, has to be a full on refund. If people spent money on those ships, it's a good chance the people wanted THAT ship and NOT doubloons. You could offer a 500% value of doubloons for each Premium CV they had lost, they could still have underlying legal issues. Remember Bethesda's nylon bag fiasco? Or Bethesda facing legal issues for not giving refunds when people didn't get exactly what they paid for?

[edited] doesn't have CVs wonder why no one has jumped over there

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On 8/4/2020 at 9:58 AM, Penguinattack27 said:

Yes, someone who understands, most people in the game are mediocre most of the time, myself included.  We CV mains are the most likely to look at the game as a stragetic game of chess, next to non German ( On certain occasions, but having brawling ability makes it more tactical than strategic to play)  bb players, we are strategists, we think of the game in the long run, except graf zeppelin players, they are entirely tactical in my opinion, they know how to smack down cruisers with secondarys for gods sake. We rely on looking at the map like a board of chess where the pieces say screw you to our opinions and strategies most of the time and we only have the power to screw with the enemy ships in the form of showing them for our allys to kill and  dropping small care packages on them that do moderate to non existent damage if we are lucky. But we don't risk anything to get to it. We defend cv's because they are on another levle of play, we play chess not checkers. less so now as we have less raw firepower to put into play and less ability to do anything but kill destroyers and light cruisers precisely because they nerfed our ability to hit heavier ships. If all dd players were awesome gamer people and knew how every gun every torpedo every strategy worked, we would have a much harder time and would be near useless besides spotting from afar and being bored. Its not that the class is inherently op, its the people that play it.

I could not have explained it any better. I consider myself an average player. I have only been playing for a year, so I don't know the game without CVs, just individual battles. Playing all class and tier ships, CVs helped me learn how to use the low detection range of a DD to survive and be a better player so I don't die in the first 5 seconds of a game. Because of playing CVs, I know how to use the mini map to see where my 18km range of my BB is needed and where to position myself to help the most players effectively. When I am not playing a CV, CVs are just a swarm of flys pestering me. The enemy knows where I am and I know where they are so I use the cover of islands and smoke so not to be the center of focused fire. CVs have forced me to learn how to play the game better,

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1 hour ago, devildog0416 said:

I could not have explained it any better. I consider myself an average player. I have only been playing for a year, so I don't know the game without CVs, just individual battles. Playing all class and tier ships, CVs helped me learn how to use the low detection range of a DD to survive and be a better player so I don't die in the first 5 seconds of a game. Because of playing CVs, I know how to use the mini map to see where my 18km range of my BB is needed and where to position myself to help the most players effectively. When I am not playing a CV, CVs are just a swarm of flys pestering me. The enemy knows where I am and I know where they are so I use the cover of islands and smoke so not to be the center of focused fire. CVs have forced me to learn how to play the game better,

Thanks for backing me up, i'm a far less experienced player than you but its nice to know i explained it well.

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If I'm in a DD, which by the way I mostly play DD, and a cv spots me I am basically dead. I can use smoke to hide but if he is any good at all he will just keep sending planes back to my area until either he gets me or other ships do because I'm spotted. I am seriously considering quitting this game after 4+ years mainly due to cv's. Playing T 8-10 DD is practically useless because of radar and cv's. Now even lower tier DD is doomed with multiple cv battles. It's not fun when your dead in 2 minutes or less

 

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On 7/30/2020 at 10:03 PM, Sovereigndawg said:

Isn't there the same amount on both sides? I don't play randoms anymore, but at least I wouldn't cry every time there were CVs present. The other team has the same amount of them except in clans where you choose your ships. If you decide to play random battles just accept it and play accordingly to your best ability. Then you can go to the next battle. Don't ever put your heart and soul into a battle, accept fate and move on, it's not real.

Only in theory are the CVs evenly distributed, have seen some CV deliberately trolling their teams by refusing to launch planes and even talking in chat how they are in essence there to troll the battle. And CVs seem to be the ship of choice in which to use for this purpose which only proves how OP CVs are.

 

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On 7/30/2020 at 9:58 PM, jamesCOCOcokelet said:

Just played rank, a CV killed our dd once we snuck around the island

and even missed on a strike with torpedo's on me, i was in a secondary spec bis and he still did most of the work on me.

He was faster than me or as fast, and fast enough to stay away from the dd.

 

the only reason i can see people saying this type of crap is not op is cause they like playing exploits. It is possible they love the game and like playing all, okay ill give them that. 

But since coming back into the game,  carriers add no enjoyment to the game for the opposite team and have too much impact on the game. What is there weakness, a lot of smart players used to say rock paper scissors.

What is it for carriers. bomb? that's it probably, only scissors can stop it, so it kills the other three. anyway, average player wont stay long in he game due to carriers, again. God i cant imagine the sub gameplay. 

Cvs actually take a lot of skill and strategy to play. Im assuming here so please don't get salty. Have you played cvs? If not you really shouldn't complain. If you are said Bismark and not with your Aa ships will your done for.

Sometimes its best to move as a team and not go solo as that's how you die, then again, as a cv player if i want to destroy you. It doesn't matter how many Aa ships are supporting you- I will get you 🧂 🍚 🧂 

 

 

Just saying hope your day is as salty as mine! 

20200804_124644.png

unknown-1.png.0a882753f787e8175df4a9e3d63db578.png

Edited by HeavensAuthority

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On 8/9/2020 at 12:28 PM, HeavensAuthority said:

Cvs actually take a lot of skill and strategy to play. Im assuming here so please don't get salty. Have you played cvs? If not you really shouldn't complain. If you are said Bismark and not with your Aa ships will your done for.

Sometimes its best to move as a team and not go solo as that's how you die, then again, as a cv player if i want to destroy you. It doesn't matter how many Aa ships are supporting you- I will get you 🧂 🍚 🧂 

And therein lies the problem . Rocket planes need to go bye bye.  Never should have been brought into the game in the first place . Fighters need to count  as squadrons not a consumable  All the AA nerf they did with the CV rework needs to be gutted and returned to what we had before . That was the biggest screw job of all . It was supposed to be a CV rework not an AA nerf job . It is impossible to dodge rocket planes . The CVs have all the perks . set one on fire ? no problem it only burns for 5 sec. AND it can not be set on fire again for a full minute afterwards . How are you supposed to dodge rocket planes when they are shooting up to 30 rockets per salvo at point blank range  ? That is ridiculously OP !  The whole area gets saturated . fighter squadrons getting dropped to keep DDs spotted  is as low as a CV can sink . As for spotting , plane spotting needs to be reflected in the mini map only .  CV circles you out of the nerfed AA range and somebody 18 K away starts blasting you . The only real fix is to cut the planes hit points and triple everybody else's  AA so the wretched things can all be shot down . Also if planes can respawn  Destroyed  AA guns need to have that capability too . Nobody wanted this CV mess and it's still all goofed up 18 months later . WG  didn't like the DD meta with all the torps so they nerfed  the DDs torps either by speed ,spotting range , damage , or reload time . Lets see a CV play that can only launch planes  every 1.5 - 2 min . That means either all the planes get shot down or when the planes return the timer starts .  CV ruins the entire game for everybody else . If you get the good one your team wins . If you get the bad one 11 players just got shafted . Having bad teammates is a part of life but it is an automatic loss when you get a CV game . AA needs to be able to be focused on the attacking plane squadrons only but the great AA nerf took that away from us . once that attack button is hit no other planes matter only the ones attacking . So what does my stupid AA do now ?  It shoots fighters , it shoots the other squadron planes , it shoots everything  but what it is supposed to shoot namely the attacking planes only . Somebody at WG decided they loved Cvs . What they do not realize is the vast  majority of us HATE CVs because they are and always have been OP . 

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1 minute ago, Capt_Q_Sparrow said:

And therein lies the problem . Rocket planes need to go bye bye.  Never should have been brought into the game in the first place . Fighters need to count  as squadrons not a consumable  All the AA nerf they did with the CV rework needs to be gutted and returned to what we had before . That was the biggest screw job of all . It was supposed to be a CV rework not an AA nerf job . It is impossible to dodge rocket planes . The CVs have all the perks . set one on fire ? no problem it only burns for 5 sec. AND it can not be set on fire again for a full minute afterwards . How are you supposed to dodge rocket planes when they are shooting up to 30 rockets per salvo at point blank range  ? That is ridiculously OP !  The whole area gets saturated . fighter squadrons getting dropped to keep DDs spotted  is as low as a CV can sink . As for spotting , plane spotting needs to be reflected in the mini map only .  CV circles you out of the nerfed AA range and somebody 18 K away starts blasting you . The only real fix is to cut the planes hit points and triple everybody else's  AA so the wretched things can all be shot down . Also if planes can respawn  Destroyed  AA guns need to have that capability too . Nobody wanted this CV mess and it's still all goofed up 18 months later . WG  didn't like the DD meta with all the torps so they nerfed  the DDs torps either by speed ,spotting range , damage , or reload time . Lets see a CV play that can only launch planes  every 1.5 - 2 min . That means either all the planes get shot down or when the planes return the timer starts .  CV ruins the entire game for everybody else . If you get the good one your team wins . If you get the bad one 11 players just got shafted . Having bad teammates is a part of life but it is an automatic loss when you get a CV game . AA needs to be able to be focused on the attacking plane squadrons only but the great AA nerf took that away from us . once that attack button is hit no other planes matter only the ones attacking . So what does my stupid AA do now ?  It shoots fighters , it shoots the other squadron planes , it shoots everything  but what it is supposed to shoot namely the attacking planes only . Somebody at WG decided they loved Cvs . What they do not realize is the vast  majority of us HATE CVs because they are and always have been OP . 

Well yea. Instead of using fighters to protect dds, good cv players use fighters to keep enemy dds spotted hence why they die early. I don't disagree with that part at all. 

 

The reason they changed the Aa was pre cv rework when cvs were very OP in doing cross drops. They took that ability away and "streamlined" it. If you can call it that. Yes. A majority of people hate or dislike cvs and the other half of us like them. There's no need to have a heart attack about cvs. Just have fun or don't play at all or play a different game. 

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On 7/30/2020 at 7:58 PM, jamesCOCOcokelet said:

Just played rank, a CV killed our dd once we snuck around the island

and even missed on a strike with torpedo's on me, i was in a secondary spec bis and he still did most of the work on me.

He was faster than me or as fast, and fast enough to stay away from the dd.

 

the only reason i can see people saying this type of crap is not op is cause they like playing exploits. It is possible they love the game and like playing all, okay ill give them that. 

But since coming back into the game,  carriers add no enjoyment to the game for the opposite team and have too much impact on the game. What is there weakness, a lot of smart players used to say rock paper scissors.

What is it for carriers. bomb? that's it probably, only scissors can stop it, so it kills the other three. anyway, average player wont stay long in he game due to carriers, again. God i cant imagine the sub gameplay. 

Could you show us on the doll where the CV touched you?

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[BAWK]
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CVs used to be extrordinarily OP, but really hard to use well. They lowered the skill floor and the skill ceiling with the rework.

Most players are fairly average. I think the unicorns and taters get noticed more because it's the most visible ship on the board.

 

Most DDs have enough AA to shred fighters. If you turn your AA off to avoid detection (unless you are in one of those Swedish flack traps)  you can turn it back on when the rocket planes leave and delete spotting fighters if he left them. Also; if it is a KM CV; DDs are all but impossible to kill. No way you'll hit one with a bomb and the AP rockets all over-pen.

Really, really good CV players *are* hard to counter, but then so are really, really good BB players. (And don't get me started on Soviet super-cruisers!)

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