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leeuniverse

Were the AGIR's Secondary's massively NERFED...? (distance and accuracy)

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So, I watched one video from like a couple of months ago I think, maybe a month can't remember.
Anyway, he had his secondary's working really nice, he would essentially rock back and forth, and the secondaries were really accurate, AND he had their distance going up to 11.5km.

So, I bought the ship, thinking I would basically have a T9 Tirpitz or Odin, with a little better secondary's, and a unique playstyle, but everything else about the ship being mediocre to poor, and I was looking forward to the occasional drive-by and have Torpedo and Secondary fun.
But, I deck out the ship with everything there is, and I'm only getting 7.6km shooting distance, but worse, the secondary's literally can't hit the side of a barn, they are MASSIVELY Inaccurate, they are literally flying all over the place, performing nothing like the other ships I have with secondary improvements on them, even though I gave the ship every secondary improvement.

Further, I side fight against T8 Battleships, I think almost every single one, and I MASSIVELY lose the fight (though not close enough for Torps), both full HP, and I'm dead and they only lost like 1/4 of their HP.  I'm like WTH!!!!!
The ship won't even perform well in Co-op, let alone Random...  Now, I know I'm likely missing some Flags which will get the distance and maybe accuracy a bit better (is there one for secondary accuracy?).  But, I can't imagine anything that would be even close enough to what I was seeing in the one video.

So, I rage sold the ship...  I mean, it was massively worse than T8's...  It performed like a T6, T7 at most...
Further, other videos the Siegfried also seems to do a bit well, though having better main, and less good secondary's, though not bad, was it nerfed too?  Cause, I don't want to get it and end up in the same situation?
I think it's bullship that we can't get our money back.  They should give us like a 24hr trial period.  This would also force them to stop giving us ****, to actually make most tanks good performing, it's ethical and better for the game and customer service.

So, what's going on???  Help.
I want another T9 for better earnings of everything, but really don't want to buy an Alaska, which is just another BB, and I have the Georgia already and plenty of other BB's including more down the road.

Thanks

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That is utterly stupid...  That ability was the only thing making the ship "competitive".
They didn't give it better Main gun accuracy like others have, and nothing else with it is special really, other than I think AA is actually good, that's all.

Did they also nerf the accuracy, cause I can't comprehend what I'm seeing from it.
As I mentioned, it's performing nothing close to how others perform, and I'm guessing part of that reason is because others allow the "Manual Secondary" whatever skill?  But still, it's astoundingly terrible.

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I'm pretty sure this is why Wargaming no longer allows play videos of WIP ships; they want to be free to adjust (read nerf smash) premiums prior to release without community/CC judgement. Nobody wants to buy a premium when they see that it's good, then they see that it gets nerf hammered before it comes out. That is a fairly recent change.

I would open a ticket and ask for a refund personally. Probably won't work, but no harm in trying. 

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When she was in testing, I remember Flamu complaining how terrible the guns in use were, but the secondaries were absolutely fantastic.  I recall him joking in a video that Agir's secondaries were once so good that they were in reality, the real main battery because the 305s were so bad :Smile_teethhappy:

 

Not long after that, WG gutted Agir's secondaries range and improved the consistency of the 305s.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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Just now, HazeGrayUnderway said:

When she was in testing, I remember Flamu complaining how terrible the guns in use were, but the secondaries were absolutely fantastic.  I recall him joking in a video that Agir's secondaries were once so good that they were in reality, the real main battery because the 305s were so bad :Smile_teethhappy:

And it was right after that video/stream replay when WG dropped the nerf hammer on the secondary guns.

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Just now, exray0 said:

I'm pretty sure this is why Wargaming no longer allows play videos of WIP ships; they want to be free to adjust (read nerf smash) premiums prior to release without community/CC judgement. Nobody wants to buy a premium when they see that it's good, then they see that it gets nerf hammered before it comes out. That is a fairly recent change.

I would open a ticket and ask for a refund personally. Probably won't work, but no harm in trying. 

Ya, it for sure won't work since I played it...  That policy is strict.  I really sincerely HATE Wargaming.  And I've been a big supporter, and they do this kind of crap.

All the same **** in WOT, now having it in WOWS...  :(

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Yes, the secondary nerf was well known.

The main guns for what it's worth are a lot more accurate than the Odin's guns. The ship plays a lot differently than you might expect, but is a very effective medium range battlecruiser that can bully ships in bad positions.

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2 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

When she was in testing, I remember Flamu complaining how terrible the guns in use were, but the secondaries were absolutely fantastic.  I recall him joking in a video that Agir's secondaries were once so good that they were in reality, the real main battery because the 305s were so bad :Smile_teethhappy:

 

Not long after that, WG gutted Agir's secondaries range and improved the consistency of the 305s.

Did they actually improve the 305's?  It doesn't seem like much, cause they still aren't even close to as good as the Sieg's.

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Just now, Telastyn said:

Yes, the secondary nerf was well known.

The main guns for what it's worth are a lot more accurate than the Odin's guns. The ship plays a lot differently than you might expect, but is a very effective medium range battlecruiser that can bully ships in bad positions.

Sure, I sure it can do stuff like any ship can do stuff, but if T8's are EASY able to delete you with very little effect on them, and your secondary's literally can't even hit the enemy ship, they are flying all over the place, you're NOT a good ship.

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Just now, leeuniverse said:

Sure, I sure it can do stuff like any ship can do stuff, but if T8's are EASY able to delete you with very little effect on them, and your secondary's literally can't even hit the enemy ship, they are flying all over the place, you're NOT a good ship.

I haven't found it easy for T8s to delete my Agir, even when I do stupid things. If I keep at a good range, it's hard for T8s to do much of anything while I chop them down. It's easily the most comfortable T9 CA I have to drive.

Yeah, the secondaries are near worthless. That is the least consideration for cruisers.

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If it makes you feel any better, Flambass LOVES Agir. Says it's better than Siegfried and his favorite KM ship and that video is only a week old. 

 

Edited by exray0

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5 minutes ago, leeuniverse said:

Sure, I sure it can do stuff like any ship can do stuff, but if T8's are EASY able to delete you with very little effect on them, and your secondary's literally can't even hit the enemy ship, they are flying all over the place, you're NOT a good ship.

You aren't a good secondary-focused ship. There's a difference. That said, Siegfried kept the super secondaries to go with her 6 Bismarck guns.

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12 minutes ago, leeuniverse said:

Did they actually improve the 305's?  It doesn't seem like much, cause they still aren't even close to as good as the Sieg's.

Siegfried's guns are on a whole different plane of reality for the accuracy they get from that caliber not a fair comparison really.

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1 minute ago, exray0 said:

If it makes you feel any better, Flambass LOVES Agir. Says it's better than Siegfried and his favorite KM ship and that video is only a week old. 

No, it doesn't, cause my watching that video among others is why I was thinking it was a good ship...

But, he's platooning, and he's doing exactly part of why I wanted the ship, you can do that stuff he was doing with the Tirpitz and Odin.
I noticed he didn't say anything about the secondary's, and I didn't really notice them either, so I just assumed he wasn't playing to the Secondaries.
I had no idea they had been nerfed...  But, as a Tier 9 that can't even come close to defeating a T8 Ship one on one (without torps), as a solo player, that's just NOT what I purchased the AGIR for.

Like I said in the OP, I thought I was getting one of the T8's just slightly better, mainly in the secondaries.  Instead, I'm screwed yet again by Wargaming, spending hours researching, and STILL screwed.
That's how much I HATE Wargaming!  :(

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6 minutes ago, Vader_Sama said:

Siegfried's guns are on a whole different plane of reality for the accuracy they get from that caliber not a fair comparison really.

So, was the Sieg nerfed at all, or just the Agir...?

It's secondary's while not as good as the Agir's was, they looked like they functioned normally as other secondary's with ships I have, with the videos I watched, and of course, its mains are a bit more accurate.
Agir's secondary's now are like projectile vomiting, out everywhere connecting to almost nothing at the ship in question.

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4 minutes ago, leeuniverse said:

But, as a Tier 9 that can't even come close to defeating a T8 Ship one on one (without torps), as a solo player, that's just NOT what I purchased the AGIR for.

Are you even driving the same ship as me? This thing crushes people in duels. Accuracy at long range to punish BBs, power at close range to punish cruisers. No need for the knife fight torps.

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Any video you see of a pre-release ship WILL have changes before the ship hits the live server.

Compound this with the 'Community Contributor' buff WG gives to CC accounts to make things look even better and you have a major recipe for disappointment.

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9 minutes ago, leeuniverse said:

So, was the Sieg nerfed at all, or just the Agir...?

It's secondary's while not as good as the Agir's was, they looked like they functioned normally as other secondary's with ships I have, with the videos I watched, and of course, its mains are a bit more accurate.
Agir's secondary's now are like projectile vomiting, out everywhere connecting to almost nothing at the ship in question.

Haven't really seen much things done to Seigfried compared to Agir.

 

Manual secondaries are needed if you want to have at least some resemblance of accuracy beyond 3km.

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7 minutes ago, Telastyn said:

Are you even driving the same ship as me? This thing crushes people in duels. Accuracy at long range to punish BBs, power at close range to punish cruisers. No need for the knife fight torps.

Ya, like 8 games going against T8 BB's toe to toe, and that's Co-Op even, and they utterly destroyed me like I said in the OP, both full HP, and I would be dead, and they would only have lost about only 1/4 of their HP.
Random was unplayable unless I just sniped from a distance which is not what I bought the ship for... especially when it has crap accuracy.

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4 minutes ago, leeuniverse said:

Ya, like 8 games going against T8 BB's toe to toe, and that's Co-Op even, and they utterly destroyed me like I said in the OP, both full HP, and I would be dead, and they would only have lost about only 1/4 of their HP.
Random was unplayable unless I just sniped from a distance which is not what I bought the ship for... especially when it has crap accuracy.

Yeah, cruisers aren't going to win toe to toe with bbs. And it is plenty accurate at ~14k.

Edited by Telastyn

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8 minutes ago, Vader_Sama said:

Haven't really seen much things done to Seigfried compared to Agir.

Manual secondaries are needed if you want to have at least some resemblance of accuracy beyond 3km.

BTW...  I'm wondering if the Sieg's secondaries were also nerfed in relation to "distance", and what about accuracy?
Because currently, you can only get up to 9.xkm, plus whatever flags can give you which I don't know.

The reason I'm wondering is because I watched a video from a month ago, and their secondaries were engaging by at least 11km, and they were fairly accurate.
Can flags give you almost 2km?  BTW, I have none of these flags, so that's irritating.

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Just now, leeuniverse said:

BTW...  I'm wondering if the Sieg's secondaries were also nerfed in relation to "distance", and what about accuracy?
Because currently, you can only get up to 9.xkm, plus whatever flags can give you which I don't know.

The reason I'm wondering is because I watched a video from a month ago, and their secondaries were engaging by at least 11km, and they were fairly accurate.
Can flags give you almost 2km?  BTW, I have none of these flags, so that's irritating.

I have AFT with the captain and the secondary battery mod in the slot 2 equipment plus the flag.

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6 minutes ago, Vader_Sama said:

I have AFT with the captain and the secondary battery mod in the slot 2 equipment plus the flag.

And how far do you get?  Cause base is 7.6 with skills and equipment you can get to 9.x something, then what is the flag giving you?

And how do you get these particular flags?

Also, check this video at the 8:30 mark...  He shoots at least 11km.  And compare the accuracy of the secondaries.  Do yours still perform this way?

 

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4 minutes ago, leeuniverse said:

And how far do you get?  Cause base is 7.6 with skills and equipment you can get to 9.x something, then what is the flag giving you?

Base 7.6 should give you far more than 9 something.  AFT gives you +20% range, the secondary range equipment gives you +20% to secondary range AND accuracy, and the flag gives +5%.  Combine them all and you should end up around 11.3km range, which is standard for high tier secondary focused ships.

From the numbers it sounds like you're either missing AFT, or don't have the secondary equip mounted.  The flag bonus is generally negligible.

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