Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
FrancisVonBismarck

Why was Odin criticized when it first launched?

109 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

[E-REB]
Members
13 posts
1,809 battles

Hello, today I want to discuss the criticism that the ship recieved when it first launched a month ago.

Most of the time I'd ask around people who got it early for opinions and would give comments like "Hard to use" or "Not that fun as a BB, because the guns are weak", generally stuff like that or even more ambiguous.

I got the ship a few weeks ago and I've had a blast playing it in ranked, my direct comparison would be the bismarck since it's the same faction and the same tier.

Odin by default is far more maneuverable than Bismarck ever will, even if you equip it with the rudder shift modification. As for the guns, sure they tend to be more "bouncy" obviously because of the 80mm difference, but it still can do some serious damage, 9 cannons with 6 at the front give a clear advantage over bismarck's dilema of "staying safe and angled or giving full broadside for full power salvos" and the 3 seconds difference in reload time can make a huge difference.

And the torpedo tubes are okay, same specs as Tirpitz.

The secondaries are the main difference that comes to mind, they're stil good, but not quite as spammy nor powerful as the Bismarck class ships

I can see that Odin is pretty muched a buffed Deutschland class or at least takes heavy inspiration from it.

This post shouldn't be taken as a review of either of the ships nor an indepth comparison, just my general thoughts on it.

 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19
[DW-62]
Beta Testers
86 posts
964 battles
5 minutes ago, FrancisVonBismarck said:

 

And the torpedo tubes are okay, same specs as Tirpitz.

The secondaries are the main difference that comes to mind, they're stil good, but not quite as spammy nor powerful as the Bismarck class ships

You've answered your own question, because the Tirpitz exists in the game, and because long time players already bought the Tirpitz (let's be honest, probably a Tirpitz black during black friday) they find the Odin a bit of the same minus the different gun configuration to trade off for worse pens. On average that will hurt you, but who cares what others think if you're having fun in her right?  

 

Edit: Also I don't like direct comparison between tech tree ships and premiums because all premium fail at helping you grind down the tech tree outside of FXP. So no matter how great a premium ship is, there is no evolutionary progression no matter how much you play her. She is literally locked in her release state. 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[E-REB]
Members
13 posts
1,809 battles
1 minute ago, Roken1 said:

You've answered your own question, because the Tirpitz exists in the game, and because long time players already bought the Tirpitz (let's be honest, probably a Tirpitz black during black friday) they find the Odin a bit of the same minus the different gun configuration to trade off for worse pens. On average that will hurt you, but who cares what others think if you're having fun in her right?  

Well I tried to summarize all the key differences that I found between the ships and I think that saying that they're "the same" would be like saying Bismarck and Tirpitz are the same but with torps. Which comes to the question, If that's true, then why does Tirpitz exist in the first place?.

Obviously at first glance that would be the misconception that people have, but I consider myself pretty experienced with the Bismarck class ships and can tell right away after picking up the Odin that it handles and plays differently.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,423
[WG]
Administrator, Developers, Community Department, WG Staff, In AlfaTesters
2,881 posts
13,317 battles
9 minutes ago, Roken1 said:

You've answered your own question, because the Tirpitz exists in the game, and because long time players already bought the Tirpitz (let's be honest, probably a Tirpitz black during black friday) they find the Odin a bit of the same minus the different gun configuration to trade off for worse pens. On average that will hurt you, but who cares what others think if you're having fun in her right?  

Except Tirptiz is not an Odin and an Odin is not a Tirpitz.

They are different and were NEVER meant to be played the same way. In fact, they play quite different. You CAN try to play them the same, but your results WILL vary.

Odin is a VERY good DD/Cruiser killer, Tirpitz/Bismarck is meant to be BB to BB ship.

I have both Odin and Tirpitz/Tirpitz B, and I will tell you I prefer Odin hands down.

-Hapa

  • Cool 5
  • Funny 1
  • Meh 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,589
[KWF]
Members
4,190 posts
6,355 battles

Early versions of Odin had something like 12k more HP and guns that were if memory serves a tad more accurate, with improved shell fuses to guarantee they would arm in cruisers and reduce overpenetrations. All this was removed a month or so before launch.

Edited by warheart1992
  • Meh 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9,871
[WOLF3]
Members
25,751 posts
22,646 battles

The real reason people were alarmed with Odin is her HP levels.  There may have been some small bits here and there about 305mm guns, but the one thing everyone kept being alarmed about was the HP.  She used to have better HP when she was still a WiP ship, but then the nerf came to her HP, everyone noted that.

  • Cool 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
240 posts
4,763 battles
26 minutes ago, FrancisVonBismarck said:

I got the ship a few weeks ago and I've had a blast playing it in ranked, my direct comparison would be the bismarck since it's the same faction and the same tier.

Odin does perform well enough in these modes, but it hurts in random battles especially when playing solo. When you can't coordinate with your team, thereby mitigating the lack of HP, you're forced into pushing with it and tanking more damage than you can feel comfortable tanking. That, combined with the increased amount of enemies, many being T9 and T10 in random battles, makes the ship underwhelming.

As a T8 in a T8 battle, yes she's balanced. In T9 or T10 battles she's lacking, and the reduced hitpoints are very noticeable. 

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
428
[WOLFA]
Members
794 posts
6,179 battles

Just like most German ships in this game during the PTS of the ship it was actually a good solid all around BB. More health and better guns and the secondaries were better.

But the Russian bias creped in and the hit points got nerfed and the guns are like Marty Feldman's eyes and the secondaries go off into la la land now.

If they were going to nerf the health they should have improved the Sigma of the main guns.

  • Cool 2
  • Boring 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
464
Members
521 posts
4,740 battles

I loved it at first, but the more I play it, the more the weaknesses are exposed.

My gripes:

  • The main battery sucks. LWM covered this extensively in her review but truly, it's quite bad. 

  • The HP pool is just wholly insufficient for the way this ship is set up. You can have all the armor in the world but fires don't care about your armor,  your armor actually works against you when you consider CV AP bombs (which love all KM BBs, but hurt Odin proportionately more than her big HP pool cousins), and any torps at all will ruin your day thanks to the pathetic TDS. To deliver Odin to a brawl with HP to last long enough to use your gimmicks, you really can't have taken much damage beforehand, if any at all.

  • The secondary and torpedo angles stink. For a ship that pays such a heavy price for her gimmicks, I think those gimmicks should be much more comfortable to put to use when the stars align and you finally do get that perfect brawling scenario.  

 

  • Cool 2
  • Meh 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,823
[CMFRT]
[CMFRT]
Members
14,722 posts
2 hours ago, FrancisVonBismarck said:

Why was Odin criticized when it first launched? 

The main battery doesn't crush things with ease, it has some drawbacks... just not quite the severe drawbacks some made them out to be.  And, some players expect ease with their cash, which they didn't get. 

The low HP total stands out as A Number, and some players fixate on The Numbers without looking at the details.  Odin's armor makes up for the low HP, however. 

It is superficially similar to Tirpitz.  Superficially.  

The secondaries aren't as accurate as some meme-ships, but that's offset by their natural high pen value and volume of fire.  A Mass may hit more, but the hits that Odin gets will penetrate far more readily.  

It doesn't play as some players have it in their head a BB should play, and that makes them not like it, because they have very fixed roles for each ship type they want to see. 

Etc.

Edited by KilljoyCutter
  • Cool 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,399
[RKLES]
Members
12,472 posts
14,190 battles
31 minutes ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Except Tirptiz is not an Odin and an Odin is not a Tirpitz.

They are different and were NEVER meant to be played the same way. In fact, they play quite different. You CAN try to play them the same, but your results WILL vary.

Odin is a VERY good DD/Cruiser killer, Tirpitz/Bismarck is meant to be BB to BB ship.

I have both Odin and Tirpitz/Tirpitz B, and I will tell you I prefer Odin hands down.

-Hapa

Would like to make a small correction here Hapa. I would call Odin a good DD and CL killer, and Tirpitz a good Heavy CA and BB killer. Reason I say your post needed small correction is some Heavy CAs can even shrug off Tirpitz’s 15” AP shells off their bows, so you can imagine what Odin would be like with it’s smaller caliber guns. But Odin’s smaller caliber guns would have less chance of overpen against CLs which is a benefit on some cases.

— Admiral Thrawn

  • Cool 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Meh 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,645
[SOFOP]
Members
2,364 posts
13,810 battles
32 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

Early versions of Odin had something like 12k more HP and guns that were if memory serves a tad more accurate, with improved shell fuses to guarantee they would arm in cruisers and reduce overpenetrations. All this was removed a month or so before launch.

This is the reason people don't like her I imagine.  It was nerfed heavily in testing, so people automatically assume it could be "better", and therefore this one is automatically worse and therefore "bad".  Also a reason why the streamers and CCs can't show test ships anymore...they know that Odin took a hit.

I am passing on her because I have Tirpitz and Scharnhorst, and feel both have been decently powercrept.  I can't imagine I would use Odin more.  If she could have been gotten for free, I'd have tried for it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,614
[WUDPS]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
5,371 posts
5,280 battles

It's an uptiered scharnhorst with weaker armor. Tbh I'd rather have scharn in the matches this guy sees. 

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[E-REB]
Members
13 posts
1,809 battles
38 minutes ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Except Tirptiz is not an Odin and an Odin is not a Tirpitz.

They are different and were NEVER meant to be played the same way. In fact, they play quite different. You CAN try to play them the same, but your results WILL vary.

Odin is a VERY good DD/Cruiser killer, Tirpitz/Bismarck is meant to be BB to BB ship.

I have both Odin and Tirpitz/Tirpitz B, and I will tell you I prefer Odin hands down.

-Hapa

Yeah I usually take the role of DD hunter and on BBs obviously that doesn't work that good all the time, but with Odin, her guns and her maneuverability that Odin offers and Hydro

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19
[DW-62]
Beta Testers
86 posts
964 battles
24 minutes ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Odin is a VERY good DD/Cruiser killer, Tirpitz/Bismarck is meant to be BB to BB ship.

I'm not going to try to hold anything against WG for doing this precise thing to any of the premium BBs that came out of development this year, but this very statement spells out half the player angst I seem to notice in game and in these forums.

A BB's role traditionally (irl and in early WOWS) is a ship of the line with primary duties as going after other BB's while overpowering heavy cruisers and potentially destroyers as secondary. When a ship's primary role is CA/CL/DD hunting, she is no longer considered a BB, but rather a CB or BC based on tonnage. Because WOWs have neither of those classes, and with BCs often occupying many Tier VI-VII tech trees and as premium BBs in similar tiers, I find Odin with her gun caliber and health pool sitting at VIII in a BB slot very hard to defend.

I understand how difficult it is to balance ships that straddle design philosophies, but having a Tier 8 BB slot filled by a dedicated cruiser hunter presents a continued detriment in random games when teams must rely on every BB to perform main line duties because the BBs they're facing against are typically built as such. The fact players can't pick and choose the ships they launch alongside only exacerbate this issue. 
Again, I personally have nothing against the Odin and her design, or even her place in the game. However, the negativity isn't just born of vacuum.  

       

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,732
[RLGN]
Members
13,776 posts
23,991 battles
35 minutes ago, Dr_Venture said:

It's an uptiered scharnhorst with weaker armor. Tbh I'd rather have scharn in the matches this guy sees. 

Except Scharn and I don’t get along. I actually prefer Gniesenau.

Odin seemed fine by me in my initial test games in Co-op, but I haven’t played it in Randoms yet.

In any case; I’ll probably like it, since I seem to get along quite well with ships a majority of other players tend to hate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,398
[WOLF8]
Members
7,158 posts
6,102 battles

If WeeGee hadn't nerfed Odin in some ways, then Tirpitz would've been utterly power crept. Imagine the outcry from the hordes of the Tirpitz owners, if that were the case. Oh, the horror~, lol. :cap_haloween:

Of course, the nerf does feel a little too much... but it's not like the ship became totally useless and unplayable. She still has that SUPREME GERMAN KRUPP STEEL (lel :Smile_trollface:) armor, so you just gotta leverage that well. I personally find that her Achilles Heel pretty much mandates a slightly altered play style than Tirpitz... and whether that's anyone's cup of tea would be a case by case thing. YMMV. :fish_book:

Still, I think she's a fine ship that's well worth the grind and the price. I have all of the Premise German BB's, and I still like them all equally, including Tirpitz and Odin. She's a gud-enough-bote and, more importantly, a Funbote. That's good for me, personally.

Besides (:Smile_trollface:)...

Odin_is_with_us_(Odin_hat_n_Glow_eyes).jpg.03eacd976c687ee91b55cdc186caeb6d.jpg.fa6c0f4cd9977a0751b95572236f68bb.jpg

...kewl kids sail Odin in 2020. Tirpitz is soooooo yester-year's... lululul. :Smile_trollface:

Just kidding, Tirpitz is still cool and awesome too... but the kewl kidz thing is still true... lal. :cap_haloween:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,515
[POP]
Beta Testers
4,442 posts
6,273 battles

now i want to see how that pommern will fare.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,823
[CMFRT]
[CMFRT]
Members
14,722 posts
15 minutes ago, Cruxdei said:

now i want to see how that pommern will fare.

Latest word is that they took the sigma out back and beat it to death. :Smile_hiding:

 

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,515
[POP]
Beta Testers
4,442 posts
6,273 battles
Just now, KilljoyCutter said:

Latest word is that they took the sigma out back and beat it to death. :Smile_hiding:

 

so basically another nerfed german ship.

funny that siegfriend didn't get that,it might be because she is RB ship.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,423
[WG]
Administrator, Developers, Community Department, WG Staff, In AlfaTesters
2,881 posts
13,317 battles
16 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Would like to make a small correction here Hapa. I would call Odin a good DD and CL killer, and Tirpitz a good Heavy CA and BB killer. Reason I say your post needed small correction is some Heavy CAs can even shrug off Tirpitz’s 15” AP shells off their bows, so you can imagine what Odin would be like with it’s smaller caliber guns. But Odin’s smaller caliber guns would have less chance of overpen against CLs which is a benefit on some cases.

— Admiral Thrawn

Oh I 100% agree it depends on angling though TBH. Knowing where to shoot etc... the pen of Odins guns are more suited to engaging cruisers overall though.

-Hapa

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,423
[WG]
Administrator, Developers, Community Department, WG Staff, In AlfaTesters
2,881 posts
13,317 battles
44 minutes ago, Roken1 said:

I'm not going to try to hold anything against WG for doing this precise thing to any of the premium BBs that came out of development this year, but this very statement spells out half the player angst I seem to notice in game and in these forums.

A BB's role traditionally (irl and in early WOWS) is a ship of the line with primary duties as going after other BB's while overpowering heavy cruisers and potentially destroyers as secondary. When a ship's primary role is CA/CL/DD hunting, she is no longer considered a BB, but rather a CB or BC based on tonnage. Because WOWs have neither of those classes, and with BCs often occupying many Tier VI-VII tech trees and as premium BBs in similar tiers, I find Odin with her gun caliber and health pool sitting at VIII in a BB slot very hard to defend.

I understand how difficult it is to balance ships that straddle design philosophies, but having a Tier 8 BB slot filled by a dedicated cruiser hunter presents a continued detriment in random games when teams must rely on every BB to perform main line duties because the BBs they're facing against are typically built as such. The fact players can't pick and choose the ships they launch alongside only exacerbate this issue. 
Again, I personally have nothing against the Odin and her design, or even her place in the game. However, the negativity isn't just born of vacuum.  

       

Well and the problem here is Odin was never intended to be a BB, just like Scharn... they were meant to be BCs not BBs. Just because in game they are categorized as BBs does not mean we have to play them as such, you have to look at their armor and gun caliber and determine play that way.

-Hapa

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[E-REB]
Members
13 posts
1,809 battles
1 hour ago, FullMetal_Inferno said:

Odin does perform well enough in these modes, but it hurts in random battles especially when playing solo. When you can't coordinate with your team, thereby mitigating the lack of HP, you're forced into pushing with it and tanking more damage than you can feel comfortable tanking. That, combined with the increased amount of enemies, many being T9 and T10 in random battles, makes the ship underwhelming.

As a T8 in a T8 battle, yes she's balanced. In T9 or T10 battles she's lacking, and the reduced hitpoints are very noticeable. 

I don't even know why matchmaking puts T8 with T9s and T10s

To be fair it's a sea of difference between 8 and 10 just like there is with 6 and 8

Edited by FrancisVonBismarck
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9,871
[WOLF3]
Members
25,751 posts
22,646 battles
25 minutes ago, FrancisVonBismarck said:

I don't even know why matchmaking puts T8 with T9s and T10s

To be fair it's a sea of difference between 8 and 10 just like there is with 6 and 8

As long as Tier VIII can see and beat up on Tier VI, then they also belong in Tier X games.

 

A North Carolina can square up and do defensive tactics that mitigate the worst of Montana, Republique, tc.

 

A Tier VI New Mexico, Fuso have zero defensive tactics against Tier VIII BBs that Overmatch them every which way possible.  Bow on or even Angling tactics are pointless once Overmatch is in effect, and the only thing they can do is pray the shells don't hit.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42
[OVRPN]
[OVRPN]
Beta Testers
108 posts
17,031 battles

Because clickbait CCs said Odin was bad.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×