Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
Daniel_Allan_Clark

Friesland - Build: Theory Crafting

57 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

2,897
[TARK]
Members
5,651 posts
2,260 battles

I am closing in on 1million freeXP and am probably going to spend it on Friesland...as I enjoy the gunboat DD with bad torpedoes (in this case, no torpedoes) concept.

What build makes sense for this ship?

I am thinking the following:

Main Armaments Mod 1

Engine Room Protection

Aiming System Mod 1

Propulsion Mod 1

Concealment Systems Mod 1 - would you use Ship Consumables Mod 1?

Gun Fire Control System Mod 2 - what about Main Battery Mod 3 or Auxiliary Armaments Mod 2?

 

Captain skills:

Preventive Maintenance

Last Stand

Survivability Expert

Radio Location

Smoke Screen Expert

Superintendent or Demolition Expert?

Concealment Expert or AFT?

 

The goal of this is to create an anti-DD capital ship screen...that can also farm enemy ships from smoke or cover...

Let me know your preferred builds and why. I am definitely not a highly skilled / experienced DD player. So telling me I'm wrong is what I want to hear! :)

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,919
[DDMAF]
Members
2,809 posts
16,127 battles

It has kinda bad concealment. Use CE for sure.

You put out such a huge volume of shells that fires are inevitable. Take DE. AR is lolz, too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,799
[CMFRT]
[CMFRT]
Members
14,678 posts
Just now, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

I am closing in on 1million freeXP and am probably going to spend it on Friesland...as I enjoy the gunboat DD with bad torpedoes (in this case, no torpedoes) concept.

What build makes sense for this ship?

I am thinking the following:

  • Main Armaments Mod 1
  • Engine Room Protection
  • Aiming System Mod 1
  • Propulsion Mod 1
  • Concealment Systems Mod 1 - would you use Ship Consumables Mod 1?
  • Gun Fire Control System Mod 2 - what about Main Battery Mod 3 or Auxiliary Armaments Mod 2?

Captain skills:

  • Preventive Maintenance
  • Last Stand
  • Survivability Expert
  • Radio Location
  • Smoke Screen Expert
  • Superintendent or Demolition Expert?
  • Concealment Expert or AFT?

Hope you don't mine me putting in the list format to shorten that up... 

Here's my build so far: 

  • MAM1 -- standard 
  • DCMS1 -- standard 
  • ASM1 -- pretty standard, and this ship needs as many shells as possible to hit the target 
  • PM1 -- for getting the hell out of dodge when smoke or cover fail you 
  • CSM1 -- combined with the camo it gives enough concealment and that 9% penalty to enemy dispersion 
  • MBM3 -- the turrets are so fast that the penalty to traverse is meaningless, and ROF bonus amps up the firepower 

 

  • Priority Target -- just about standard
  • Last Stand -- standard on all DDs, losing rudder or engine is almost guaranteed doom
  • BFT -- check out these ROF gains, bro... combined with MBM3 the reload is down to 1.43 seconds, AND it beefs up the AA auras 
  • DE -- fire, fire, fire
  • AFT -- more range on mains, plus boosted flak 

At some point I might invest in CE, but, it doesn't improve the penalty to enemy dispersion, it only reduces visible range from 7.14 to 6.43, and only makes a difference when you''re not firing... on a ship that needs to fire until the barrels melt. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,897
[TARK]
Members
5,651 posts
2,260 battles
3 minutes ago, legozer said:

It has kinda bad concealment. Use CE for sure.

You put out such a huge volume of shells that fires are inevitable. Take DE. AR is lolz, too.

Will I need concealment in the aircraft meta?

Even with CE, I'm not going to outspot other DDs. Is the 700 meter difference that important to get concealment expert? I do not intend to use this ship as a spotter.

The huge volume of shells make DE less important, does it not? The same comment applies for AR...I think I'd rather have a bigger smoke screen than a minuscule improvement in rate of fire.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
420
[ICBM]
Members
739 posts
8,498 battles

You really really really need CE on this ship, otherwise you'll never get close enough. 

 

Strongly recommend:

 

PT - you can open water gunboat as long as nobody is looking and this happens more than you'd think.

AR - for more dakka

LS - obviously

SE - obviously

BFT - more dakka

CE - concealment=survival

RPF - This is key to help you locate enemy DDs and use islands to mitigate their spotting advantage so you can sneak up on them, get them in your hydro range, and then creep out in smoke and waste them. 

 

6.4 concealment can still allow you to close the distance with a nose-in destroyer to force the engagement. You don't want to do this if the DD has a lot of support, but if they are overexentded, you can do it. Without CE, not so much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,799
[CMFRT]
[CMFRT]
Members
14,678 posts
2 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Will I need concealment in the aircraft meta?

Even with CE, I'm not going to outspot other DDs. Is the 700 meter difference that important to get concealment expert? I do not intend to use this ship as a spotter.

The huge volume of shells make DE less important, does it not? The same comment applies for AR...I think I'd rather have a bigger smoke screen than a minuscule improvement in rate of fire.

With AR, at 50% ship HP,  your reload goes from 1.43 to 1.28.   Personally, I'd rather spend those points elsewhere on this ship, but you decide for you. 

As for CE, you're going to run into players who tell you that Every... Single... Meter of concealment matters and that you should take CE on every captain ever.   Friesland already comes with permacamo, and the Concealment upgrade is an easy pick IMO, so those 4 captain points might be better spent on other things. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,897
[TARK]
Members
5,651 posts
2,260 battles
8 minutes ago, mrieder79 said:

You really really really need CE on this ship, otherwise you'll never get close enough.

What does this mean?

My guns already outrange my concealment.

I will not have better concealment than any DD i hunt.

I should, by your apparent logic, NEVER get close enough.

What advantage accrues from having 700 meters more concealment?

I can have 17km range plus RPF if I dont choose it.

...and the moment I open fire on the enemy DD he is going to see me. In fact, he is going to see me first most of the time.

I guess I keep coming back to the reality that I intend to play Friesland as a screening ship...not a torpedo boat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,799
[CMFRT]
[CMFRT]
Members
14,678 posts

Anyone who sets out to play Friesland as a torpedo boat is going to be disappointed. 

 

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
278
[R-F2]
Members
645 posts
9,572 battles

Don't use ship consumables mod, waste of a slot when you have no heal or speed boost.

Use reload instead of range in slot 6, AFT is better if you want more range.

Take Adrenaline Rush instead of Smoke Screen Expert, smoke radius is a waste of two skill points and AR is the best two point skill in the game.

Remove RPF, Friesland is not good as a "DD hunter" since it has bad concealment, no heal, low base speed, and no speed boost. Take more 3 point skills instead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,897
[TARK]
Members
5,651 posts
2,260 battles

So...

Switch out AFT for BFT and then decide if I also want DE in exchange for smoke screen expert?

Is 10% vs 8% fire chance really that great on firepower of this volume?

I still like PM over PT...mostly because I only have two guns and I dont want them knocked out.

I generally have no problem playing without PT based on my positioning and minimap reading skills.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,659
[SBS]
Members
5,414 posts

I think there is value in CE.  You are still a DD so you'll still want to spot, and grab caps, CE will help with that.  It also allows you to get closer to support your own DDs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,897
[TARK]
Members
5,651 posts
2,260 battles
1 minute ago, WernerHerzdog said:

Don't use ship consumables mod, waste of a slot when you have no heal or speed boost.

Good to know...

What about superintendent? Worth it on this ship?

2 minutes ago, WernerHerzdog said:

Take Adrenaline Rush instead of Smoke Screen Expert, smoke radius is a waste of two skill points and AR is the best two point skill in the game.

From my point of view, AR is a waste on guns that reload this fast already. Getting a quarter second faster reload just isnt that important.

Fully agree that smoke screen expert isnt huge either.

3 minutes ago, WernerHerzdog said:

Remove RPF, Friesland is not good as a "DD hunter" since it has bad concealment, no heal, low base speed, and no speed boost. Take more 3 point skills instead.

RPF is critical on a ship with poor concealment...though the poor speed does mean I will have a hard time actively hunting.

Hmm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,799
[CMFRT]
[CMFRT]
Members
14,678 posts
1 minute ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

So...

Switch out AFT for BFT and then decide if I also want DE in exchange for smoke screen expert?

Is 10% vs 8% fire chance really that great on firepower of this volume?

I still like PM over PT...mostly because I only have two guns and I dont want them knocked out.

I generally have no problem playing without PT based on my positioning and minimap reading skills.

I'd take BFT and AFT.

As for DE... consider that with BFT and MBM3, you are putting out roughly 28 shells in a ten-second burst.  That 2% increase in fire chance really adds up given the number of rounds you're putting on target (from another point of view, it's a 25% boost on this ship's 8% base fire chance). 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,897
[TARK]
Members
5,651 posts
2,260 battles
4 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

I think there is value in CE.  You are still a DD so you'll still want to spot, and grab caps, CE will help with that.  It also allows you to get closer to support your own DDs.

Not in an aircraft meta I wont.

Seriously, it is not the job of the DD to spot in a game with planes.

It is rarely the job of DDs to cap in a game with planes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,281
[BNKR]
[BNKR]
Members
2,564 posts
2,358 battles

Friesland is by far my most played ship.  Take CE.  That extra 700 meters makes all the difference when hunting DDs.  It gives them that much less time to react to you.  You're slow.  At 7.1 km concealment, you will never find a well played IJN DD.  You also won't be able to disengage well.

When I get back to my computer, I'll post my ship and captain build.  I have a solid 55% win rate.

 

Edited by CaptainKaitoGhost

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,583
[KWF]
Members
4,186 posts
6,350 battles
Just now, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

So...

Switch out AFT for BFT and then decide if I also want DE in exchange for smoke screen expert?

Is 10% vs 8% fire chance really that great on firepower of this volume?

I still like PM over PT...mostly because I only have two guns and I dont want them knocked out.

I generally have no problem playing without PT based on my positioning and minimap reading skills.

Friesland lives and dies by it's gunnery. I can understand wanting some more effective range but to be honest AFT or the Range mod will make it increasingly hard to hit targets beyond your actual 12.3 km range you come with.

You pick DE to get to 10%, then 1% more due to signals. Consider how fire chance works at high tiers. Firing at a Yamato  or any tier X with the 50% fire coefficient with the 8% chance gets you to 4%. With DE, signals you jump that to 5,5%. For a ship focusing on fire damage that's quite a leap.

As for the concealment debate, a series of reasons.

First is that you outspot many tier VII DDs you might face, as well as open water gunboats such as Udaloi or Mogador, even if they go full concealment.

Secondly, many ships choose to rush Friesland smokes since they know it has no torpedoes. You can take advantage of that by baiting people to overextend with your smoke. Better detection helps with disengaging.

Last, consider the concealment of many DDs at that tier, 5.8-6km . With a 6.4km concealment there's not a big stealth room enough for them to maneuver and evade you, meaning they will inevitably take damage.

Regarding CVs, most of the time they won't want to hang around you. That doesn't mean they won't be able to strike you, but the more they stay in order to spot, the more damage you can pile up on their squadrons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11,008
[ARGSY]
Members
18,912 posts
13,143 battles
39 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

Anyone who sets out to play Friesland as a torpedo boat is going to be disappointed. 

 

:Smile_veryhappy:

17 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Not in an aircraft meta I wont.

Seriously, it is not the job of the DD to spot in a game with planes.

It is rarely the job of DDs to cap in a game with planes.

You do realise, don't you, that Friesland is one of the few destroyers in this game that can hack planes down with joyous abandon? Not as well as she could in testing (so OP at it that she had to be nerfed into the ground), and perhaps not quite as well as Halland, but she's pretty good at it. As a CV player, Halland and Friesland are the two destroyers I most wish to avoid.

 And unlike the Swedes, she has smoke to do it from.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,211
[-BUI-]
Members
1,756 posts
5,164 battles

Standard gun build is the way to go.  

Tier 1: PT

Tier 2:  AR, LS

Tier 3: BFT, DE

Tier 4: AFT, CE

There is definitely IMO an augment for RL as well, I know I wish I had it a lot of the time, just be prepared to run away if you meet another DD you didn't expect and then attempt to re-engage with hydro if they smoke up.

Hydro approaches on DDs in smoke is my favorite thing to do in the Friesland.   She can gun down BBs though, just hold down M1 and burn baby burn!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
278
[R-F2]
Members
645 posts
9,572 battles
39 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Good to know...

What about superintendent? Worth it on this ship?

From my point of view, AR is a waste on guns that reload this fast already. Getting a quarter second faster reload just isnt that important.

Fully agree that smoke screen expert isnt huge either.

RPF is critical on a ship with poor concealment...though the poor speed does mean I will have a hard time actively hunting.

Hmm.

I would rather have SE/BFT/DE than superintendent, an extra smoke only helps if the game already went long enough for you to use three of them. Still a useful skill, just not as good as the other three imo.

AR is a percentage based reload buff. It's absolutely not a waste because your reload is already fast, 10% is 10% no matter what your reload is.

The problem with RPF on a Friesland is, if you know where the enemy DDs are what are you going to do with that information? If you try to chase them they can easily keep you spotted for their team to shoot. You might kill some bad DDs, but you can just as well kill bad DDs when they walk into your hydro while you're in smoke shooting their team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,799
[CMFRT]
[CMFRT]
Members
14,678 posts

BTW, I think it's great, and a good sign, that OP is not getting cookie-cutter or echo-chamber advice, and that different posters with difference stances on their preferred builds can all give some reasoning behind their preferences. 

 

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,281
[BNKR]
[BNKR]
Members
2,564 posts
2,358 battles

Sa1xkhU.jpg

baooNMC.jpg

 

The special Hydro mod is also a good choice.

I run PM instead of PT to help prevent my turrets from being knocked out, as well as engine/rudder.  You only have 2 turrets, so losing one halves your firepower.  I'm not big on PT on DDs because I just automatically assume everyone is targeting me whenever I'm spotted anyway.

LS is a no brainer for all DDs.  So is SE.

BFT and DE boost the guns.  BFT also boosts AA.  Friesland's 120s don't penetrate much, so you will rely on fire damage for heavier targets, hence DE.

SI gives you the extra smoke and hydro.  The longer you can survive, the more dangerous you become.  Having those consumables available late game is huge.

CE I already explained in my first post in the thread.

 

EDIT:  My personal stats in Friesland, for reference.

Ug2QIH0.png

Edited by CaptainKaitoGhost

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
2,893 posts
5,569 battles
1 hour ago, WernerHerzdog said:

I would rather have SE/BFT/DE than superintendent, an extra smoke only helps if the game already went long enough for you to use three of them. Still a useful skill, just not as good as the other three imo.

AR is a percentage based reload buff. It's absolutely not a waste because your reload is already fast, 10% is 10% no matter what your reload is.

The problem with RPF on a Friesland is, if you know where the enemy DDs are what are you going to do with that information? If you try to chase them they can easily keep you spotted for their team to shoot. You might kill some bad DDs, but you can just as well kill bad DDs when they walk into your hydro while you're in smoke shooting their team.

I think the problem is that there are a lot of tradeoff choices to make, Friesland is hungry for captain points, and you can't get all the three-point skills you want. BFT is probably the most important, but DE, SE, and SI are all good choices. If you take CE, AFT, and BFT, you have to pick only one between SI, DE, and SE, and then you'll hit 17 points. AR is a good choice, but with the fire rate being so fast already, I am not sure it's worth the two points. Of course, JOAT would be a good alternate choice, but if you didn't take SI, then it's less good. Unfortunately Friesland skills don't really align well with any of the other Pan-European destroyers, so optimizing a Friesland captain means a dedicated 19-point captain.

Edited by RainbowFartingUnicorn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,510
[-K-]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
6,891 posts
8,841 battles
3 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Concealment Systems Mod 1 - would you use Ship Consumables Mod 1?

Gun Fire Control System Mod 2 - what about Main Battery Mod 3 or Auxiliary Armaments Mod 2?

 

Captain skills:

Preventive Maintenance

Last Stand

Survivability Expert

Radio Location

Smoke Screen Expert

Superintendent or Demolition Expert?

Concealment Expert or AFT?

 

The goal of this is to create an anti-DD capital ship screen...that can also farm enemy ships from smoke or cover...

Let me know your preferred builds and why. I am definitely not a highly skilled / experienced DD player. So telling me I'm wrong is what I want to hear! :)

Mods: Concealment mod (dont bother with anything else). Both GGCSM2 and MBM3 are fine. I prefer the extra range, so that I can burn more BBs when I'm sitting in smoke, and be safer from radar.

My captain skills: PT, PM, AR, LS, SI, SE, BFT, CE. CE is a must. Note, you can get AFT and grab MBM3 at a price of one of the 3 point skills and PM/PT, if you so wish. I personally didn't think it's a good exchange.

After solo 29 battles:

UjbZSzX.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,510
[-K-]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
6,891 posts
8,841 battles
3 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Even with CE, I'm not going to outspot other DDs. Is the 700 meter difference that important to get concealment expert?

3 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

I guess I keep coming back to the reality that I intend to play Friesland as a screening ship

Yes, if you ever want to contest caps when other DDs are there. Trust me, trying to cover that extra 0.7km while being spotted isn't fun. And if you won't bother with contesting caps -- you're forgoeing Friesland's major strength, i.e. power in knifefights, hydro, and great AA.

You also mention that you want to play Friesland as a screening ship. Again, that extra 0.7km gives the enemy DD that much time to turn around and leave, and increases the search area.

And just generally, having more concealment is always good. If nothing else, then for disengaging. Don't forget, concealment bonuses also reduce your visibility when you're on fire.

1 hour ago, CaptainKaitoGhost said:

I'm not big on PT on DDs because I just automatically assume everyone is targeting me whenever I'm spotted anyway.

Unless you're playing a very skilled group of players (e.g. high leages in CB), this often isn't an accurate assumption. In randoms there are plenty of instances where you can pump shells away at a ship in range while nobody is even trying to shoot you back.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×