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Singularity_invader

Why Can't Co-ops Just Be Tier For Tier?

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I've been playing lots of co-op games recently and this question came to my mind for several reasons:

1. Co-ops are meant to be fun and relaxing, so it's frustrating to play against top tier ships as bottom tier when I could do little or to bring your top tier ships and see bottom tier players suffer.

2. Co-ops are not remotely close to random or ranked battles, when bots are technically more accurate yet strategically nothing more than ramming boats most of the time, so using these games as "practices" for competitiveness is just unfeasible.

3. Empty spots in Co-ops are going to be filled with bots anyway, so matchmaking is not a problem and players shouldn't need the "tier gap" from such perspective.

I'm open to different reasons and proposals.

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Why should it be with the stupidity of the bots?

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32 minutes ago, Shoggoth_pinup said:

You get more xp being bottom tier, so this just seems like a negative.

I honestly don't see the point in grinding xp in co-ops since randoms reward way more even without any customization.

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1 hour ago, Singularity_invader said:

I'm open to different reasons and proposals.

Mixing tier provides more variation.

 

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12 minutes ago, Singularity_invader said:

I honestly don't see the point in grinding xp in co-ops since randoms reward way more even without any customization.

Co-op matches are also faster. Things get fairly even before you start factoring in camo expenditure and such, as well as how you can just go full force and brawl.

It's my go-to place to grind daily wins on ships I don't like. Currently there's Izumo, Monarch and Buffalo. This way I can get 1-2k xp per day and not have to free xp them. Especially due to already having Salem, making Des Moines more of a ship with a cool gimmick, Lion being able to do what Nelson does but for T8+ (or the rare 9+) missions, and Yamato being a ship. Having to use them in co-op also gives me time to wrap my head around them.

I'm actually starting to hate Izumo less now, for instance.

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31 minutes ago, Singularity_invader said:

I honestly don't see the point in grinding xp in co-ops since randoms reward way more even without any customization.

Oh If only randoms were somehow bearable to play in all the time.

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13 minutes ago, Pulicat said:

How much easier do you need it to be?

Tier-for-tier co-ops don't get easier or more difficult from that perspective. The easiest ones would be top tier 100% of the time.

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Co-op is ridiculously easy already.  It doesn't need to be any easier.  We curbstomp these bots 98% of the time.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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39 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Co-op is ridiculously easy already.  It doesn't need to be any easier.  We curbstomp these bots 98% of the time.

How would you feel when someone brings in an Ohio (bots would generate the same ship) and you're in an A hull North Carolina? I mean, bots are already more accurate at aiming than humans.

Edited by Singularity_invader

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52 minutes ago, Singularity_invader said:

How would you feel when someone brings in an Ohio (bots would generate the same ship) and you're in an A hull North Carolina? I mean, bots are already more accurate at aiming than humans.

LOL I'd feel fine in North Carolina :Smile_teethhappy:  It'd be super easy.

 

I can bow tank Ohio's 457mm guns with North Carolina's 32mm bow.

 

Game mechanics my friend.  In this case, 457mm guns do not have the ability to Overmatch 32mm armor sections.

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Armor_thresholds#AP_overmatch

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1 minute ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

LOL I'd feel fine in North Carolina :Smile_teethhappy:  It'd be super easy.

 

I can bow tank Ohio's 457mm guns with North Carolina's 32mm bow.

 

Game mechanics my friend.  In this case, 457mm guns do not have the ability to Overmatch 32mm armor sections.

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Armor_thresholds#AP_overmatch

I'm aware of armor penetration mechanics, but that only happens when you close in on the target ship, which is situational to say the least.

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1 minute ago, Singularity_invader said:

I'm aware of armor penetration mechanics, but that only happens when you close in on the target ship, which is situational to say the least.

You clearly don't understand mechanics if you think North Carolina is going to have problems against a bot Ohio.

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1 minute ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

You clearly don't understand mechanics if you think North Carolina is going to have problems against a bot Ohio.

At range it certainly will even when you aren't giving full broadside, due to American shell arcs.

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In the post below, I had a 972 BaseXPs game using Tier VIII Heavy Cruiser ARP Takao in a Tier X game.

824 BaseXP Tier VIII Baltimore game with Tier X ships.

oi94NHw.jpgWqL8DU0.jpg&key=f220e3a05731e4ff10597677

 

And this is with Cruisers, which are a lot squishier than a Battleship.

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3 minutes ago, Singularity_invader said:

At range it certainly will even when you aren't giving full broadside, due to American shell arcs.

Charge bow in or sharply angled.  There's nothing Ohio's 457mm AP can do to you.  They will bounce.

Fire AP salvos into the bot Ohio's superstructure if it's bow on or angled.  You will get Penetration hits.

Plant AP into Ohio's sides when you get there.

Done.

Next.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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Just now, HazeGrayUnderway said:

In the post below, I had a 972 BaseXPs game using Tier VIII Heavy Cruiser ARP Takao in a Tier X game.

824 BaseXP Tier VIII Baltimore game with Tier X ships.

oi94NHw.jpgWqL8DU0.jpg&key=f220e3a05731e4ff10597677

 

And this is with Cruisers, which are a lot squishier than a Battleship.

Again, like I said, it can be situational, depending on the map. I had great bottom tier games in my Scharnhorst too, but that rarely happens.

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1 minute ago, Singularity_invader said:

Again, like I said, it can be situational, depending on the map. I had great bottom tier games in my Scharnhorst too, but that rarely happens.

Scharnhorst is still good even if bottom tier.

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2 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Charge bow in or sharply angled.  There's nothing Ohio's 457mm AP can do to you.  They will bounce.

Fire AP salvos into the bot Ohio's superstructure if it's bow on or angled.  You will get Penetration hits.

Plant AP into Ohio's sides when you get there.

Done.

Next.

You barely have enough time to "sharply angle" after being spotted first, when your starting position is on one edge of the map and Ohio's is in the middle.

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Most of my Co-op games are Tier VIII-X.  It isn't a problem at all for Tier VIII dealing with Tier X bots.  These bots are stupid.

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Just now, Singularity_invader said:

You barely have enough time to "sharply angle" after being spotted first, when your starting position is on one edge of the map and Ohio's is in the middle.

What do you mean "barely enough time" to sharply angle?  The bots give themselves away from their max range trying to spam shells, so you can see them a long ways off and have more than enough time to go bow on or angled against these stupid bots.

 

And stop sailing broadside.

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2 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Most of my Co-op games are Tier VIII-X.  It isn't a problem at all for Tier VIII dealing with Tier X bots.  These bots are stupid.

I still think it's situational and sometimes it can be very frustrating. Tier for tier co-ops would at least alleviate the situation.

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1 minute ago, Singularity_invader said:

I still think it's situational and sometimes it can be very frustrating. Tier for tier co-ops would at least alleviate the situation.

It isn't situational.  Sound play easily trumps these stupid bots.

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1 minute ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

What do you mean "barely enough time" to sharply angle?  The bots give themselves away from their max range trying to spam shells, so you can see them a long ways off and have more than enough time to go bow on or angled against these stupid bots.

 

And stop sailing broadside.

"The bots give themselves away from their max range trying to spam shells"

Exactly. When the first bot salvo flies towards you and your ship has a slow reacting rudder, chances are you'll at least get one citadel before getting properly angled.

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