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    Recently I was playing the USS Langley, and I saw a Duguay-Trouin on my team-definitely AI-fire a full spread of torpedoes into a friendly Courbet. There were no enemy ships in the vicinity except a cruiser on the other side of the Courbet, going in the opposite direction from the torpedoes. And...that is how we lost. Does anybody know why a bot would start teamkilling? In addition, no warning showed up in the chatbox like they normally do when a bot accidentally hits a teammate.

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Bots doing bot things. I've had them launch torps directly into me from a couple of kilometers away with an island on the other side of me. Then again, I've had actual players do the same thing.

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The bots cannot see the green players when attacking with torpedoes. Back in the testing days I saw a Langley do a perfect drop on an enemy. Sadly there was a friendly ship in the way which of course ate all of the torps.

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4 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

The bots cannot see the green players when attacking with torpedoes.

Oh, the bots can see the green players, alright.

In Co-op I frequently try to keep the bots between me and the red ships.  Apparently this aggravates some bots, and I have had them send torps towards me with no reds anywhere on my side of the hemisphere.  Not just random, "that was kind of close" torps...no, at times the bots apparently think I am red.

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4 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

The bots cannot see the green players when attacking with torpedoes. Back in the testing days I saw a Langley do a perfect drop on an enemy. Sadly there was a friendly ship in the way which of course ate all of the torps.

I had an extreme version of this the other evening when I was brawling in the GK and a green bot DD decided to send torps at the red bot but ignored the fact that I was between her and the red bot. I figured that I was going to be TK roadkill, but another green ship (non-bot) then sailed between me and the torps and took most of that array and was sunk saving me from all but one torp. Because the other ship was already sunk I took no damage but the (now pink) DD bot was nearly "self-sunk" from reflected damage. Almost laughable.....

The bot though did get a stern warning on the chat messages.....

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4 hours ago, desmo_2 said:

Oh, the bots can see the green players, alright.

In Co-op I frequently try to keep the bots between me and the red ships.  Apparently this aggravates some bots, and I have had them send torps towards me with no reds anywhere on my side of the hemisphere.  Not just random, "that was kind of close" torps...no, at times the bots apparently think I am red.

 

4 hours ago, DJC_499 said:

I had an extreme version of this the other evening when I was brawling in the GK and a green bot DD decided to send torps at the red bot but ignored the fact that I was between her and the red bot. I figured that I was going to be TK roadkill, but another green ship (non-bot) then sailed between me and the torps and took most of that array and was sunk saving me from all but one torp. Because the other ship was already sunk I took no damage but the (now pink) DD bot was nearly "self-sunk" from reflected damage. Almost laughable.....

The bot though did get a stern warning on the chat messages.....

I meant the so called friendly green bots who will launch on red ships in yours or other matches while happily ignoring your presence.

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Just wondering if this extends to the red bots? Do they torp each other with the same frequency.

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3 hours ago, Sabot_100 said:

Just wondering if this extends to the red bots? Do they torp each other with the same frequency.

Yes, they do it but less often in Co-Op.

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15 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

The bots cannot see the green players when attacking with torpedoes.

Ok are there any devs working on this because this is the kind of bug that has the potential to irreversibly lose a game. 

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Just now, black_hull4 said:

Ok are there any devs working on this because this is the kind of bug that has the potential to irreversibly lose a game. 

I have no idea and it has always been that way. Just avoid being in front of a torpedo armed bot friendly or at least don't get in between them and the reds.

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Sometimes there is no red ship anywhere near the path of the bot's torpedoes... I've had them fire in my general direction, without any red ship within 90 to 180 degrees of the line of fire. 

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I've had friendly bots launch torps at a friendly just out of spawn (low tier).

I'm thinking it's an AI glitch that briefly identifies you as an enemy.  But it only lasts a couple seconds and quickly returns to normal.

I've seen bot Minotaurs, spin their guns around at me in the first couple minutes of battle, and one even got a few shots off.  Torps weren't ready yet.

Keep an eye out for this odd behavior of your Bot Allies.

 

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1 hour ago, black_hull4 said:

Ok are there any devs working on this because this is the kind of bug that has the potential to irreversibly lose a game. 

Probably not.

1. Lots of bigger problems to work out

2. The bots, like humans, only get the (digital equivalent of) that gray torp lead indicator for the target. Humans are supposed to look around and see if there are any potential problems with that solution (like friendlies that might get in the way pre or post target). Trying to program in all the fuzzy logic to check where each ship will be when the torps get there if it maintains course and speed and where they MIGHT be if they change to any potential heading and speed would probably paralyze them. Probably take way to much programmer time to even hope to get a solution that doesn't cause all sorts of problems.

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New players.... waddya gunna do?

 

Bots are stupid... its as simple as that. If you lost to bots, then you need more experience. I only ever played CO-Op (read my signature and the link to the post to find out why I don't play anymore)

Wait till you get into a game where you are the ONLY human in the game. HINT: If all humans who are killed in a CoOp game quit to the port, the game will be a DRAW, it pays more than a LOSS!

Allied bots between me and the enemy will sometimes fire torps towards me rather than the enemy.... other times, they will sit right next to an enemy bot and shoot at a target miles away, while the enemy ship does the same. The only way you can sink the enemy is with great care... if you sink it, you get made pink.... if the allied bots sink an allied ship, they are ONLY pink for that game... so its pointless really...

BUT... my biggest beef was this... allied bots will OFTEN ram you.... meaning, you get fined as well as the BOT.... they do this on purpose... to me, that is WG stealing my money... same with being made pink, if you try to fire at an enemy and a bot gets in the way.... again, you get fined. The bots ARE stupid... but WoWs can easily fix that but they don't...

By the way, even if I was the only human on the team, I'll end up winning 99.9% of the time, but that is playing with a T9 or T10 ship.... Even with 3 or 4 humans only, you SHOULD win....

Your problem is you played a CV .... in anything under T6 then its a waste of time.... if you're the only human and driving a CV... then you are doomed. T6+ CV's fare a bit better....

CV's are the biggest joke in CoOp ... they promised the really balance them before they made it to the actual games, but they didn't.... I do not call giving a cruiser 4 fighters launched from 1 catapult as remotely historical... so the way they balanced it for the whole game is a joke.... wait till Subs enter the game.... They still have not worked out how if only 1 sub is left on one team and a BB on the other, how that is fair.... the BB wont stand a chance... till they figure that out, Subs are going to be a joke.... and if they PRETEND its all OK like they did with CV's.... then many others will stop playing in disgust.

The game has many problems and most have been glossed over with cheat balancing... no REAL attempt was made to tackle the problem seriously.... I imagine it was a race to start selling them and get them into the game so they could make money rather than any concern the players had about fairness... that has been the story of WoWs since it first opened its doors....

Sadly, they also figured paper ships would keep people interested in the game... another cheat way to make money.

And don't get me started on the Clan Battles boycott of the game till CV's are fixed or removed... THAT is the end result of them pushing CV's into the game when they KNEW the problems would surface and shows the total lack of regard they have for the players in the game...

BUT BOTS.... Yeah, its only a part of the long list of ignored problems in the game... all coming to the surface now. I remember the old days when the only complaints players had were about the bugs never being fixed.

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2 minutes ago, AVR_Project said:

I'm thinking it's an AI glitch that briefly identifies you as an enemy.  But it only lasts a couple seconds and quickly returns to normal.

Like the glitch that momentarily makes your hidden ship a valid target. Sometimes for a single turret.

Lots of gremlins in the system.

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1 minute ago, kiwi1960 said:

Bots are stupid... its as simple as that. If you lost to bots, then you need more experience.

Sometimes the bots just get real lucky/good. RNG favors them way more than the players. They get hits and cits, players get misses and bounces. But yeah, usually its bad players that are mostly to blame.

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17 hours ago, Sabot_100 said:

Like the glitch that momentarily makes your hidden ship a valid target. Sometimes for a single turret.

Lots of gremlins in the system.

I deal with hardware/software interactions in my work and spare time.  Model Trains (DCC) when I have time.

Artificial Intelligence has a LOOOOOOONNNNGGGG way to go to mimic the human 'Situational Awareness'.

Only a few input parameters can be looked at to drop through the flow chart to hit the fire on guns or shells.  It's all a programmed logic ladder for each situation / response.

My hats off to the game developers for taking it THIS far.  I think they are doing a great job.

Being a programmer, I consider it 'SIMULATED Intelligence', whereas 'Artificial' sounds like I grew it in a flower pot from GMO seeds mailed from China.

It's the best computers can do - since their only intelligence is what the human programmers tell them they have.

One common way would be to purchase a 'Game AI' database..   Plug in the controls, sensors, and parameters for each ship - and voila!  Co-Op bot.

Since the shell flight times are often greater than 10 seconds, and a good human player uses their WASD, so the bot shells trajectory can be changed.  This annoys aim-hack users who avoid Co-Op like the plague.  The bot reaction time is also instantaneous to incoming shells.

But bots only react to one human player at a time.  So if you are out on a far flank, you can nail them with citadels, time after time - and they stay nose-in on the human they are chasing.

Another trick if one is focused by bots.. (or humans for that matter), is to go behind an island or smoke long enough for them to focus on a different ship.
The bots won't wait for you.  They immediately turn their guns on the next enemy.

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7 minutes ago, AVR_Project said:

The bots won't wait for you.  They immediately turn their guns on the next enemy.

This assumes they do have another target. If not, with their super RPF, their guns will be trained on you when you pop out again.

I have also seen bots dither on target selection. They keep changing targets but never get their guns around to engage before changing to a new target. My PT counter will keep changing 1-0-1-0-1. I can see their turrets start their turn, then stop and reverse, then back again...

Probably way outside WGs budget to try and perfect the bot AI.

 

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17 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

This assumes they do have another target. If not, with their super RPF, their guns will be trained on you when you pop out again.

I have also seen bots dither on target selection. They keep changing targets but never get their guns around to engage before changing to a new target. My PT counter will keep changing 1-0-1-0-1. I can see their turrets start their turn, then stop and reverse, then back again...

Probably way outside WGs budget to try and perfect the bot AI.

 

Sad news for the game is that if they ever 'perfected' the AI to fight humans...
It would be the end of Humanity.  Until then, they just have to make it an unfair fight by giving them tools to make them more of a challenge.

And if you ever get killed early in a bot filled game, hop on the boat of a friendly bot and see what it does.  I was seriously edumacated on what these bots can do - that we can't.

When there is no target, the guns return to 'port' position (forward and aft).  When the bot is nose-in, engaging one target, the rear turrets can swing around and engage a secondary target.  It's like there are separate program modules controlling each weapon on the bot ship.  So yeah, a bot ship can simultaneously engage several targets that are in-range. 
This includes the one-gun-salvo that it fires all the way across the map from A cap to C cap to dev-strike my low health cruiser trying to cap.

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35 minutes ago, AVR_Project said:

When there is no target, the guns return to 'port' position (forward and aft).  When the bot is nose-in, engaging one target, the rear turrets can swing around and engage a secondary target.  It's like there are separate program modules controlling each weapon on the bot ship.  So yeah, a bot ship can simultaneously engage several targets that are in-range. 

Yes, I've seen this happen on ships like Nassau or Courbet, and the fact that I can't do it leaves me annoyed.

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1 hour ago, AVR_Project said:

When the bot is nose-in, engaging one target, the rear turrets can swing around and engage a secondary target. 

I assume humans could pull off the same stunt...sort of. If the second target is on the same side as the primary (off the bow) target, you shoot at the primary target.  While those guns reload, you switch targets to the one the aft guns are almost aimed at. Aim and shoot. Then switch back to the bow target, aim and shoot when reloaded. The aft guns are probably still generally aimed at the secondary target so you just rinse an repeat. Requires guns that don't load real fast, slow turrets and you are shooting the same ammo type from each. Your ROF will likely be reduced but you are shooting all your guns.

Not as good as actually being able to target separately as the bots apparently can do. Always wondered why WG did not make it a feature. IRL most ships have fore and aft gun directors. Hit CTRL J and your fore and aft turrets are no longer synced. (middle turrets go with the aft guns). Shifting command between turrets is the same as shifting the view. Always have to remember to re-sync the guns though. BBs and some cruisers would use this frequently. DDs, not so much.

To keep things from getting too complicated. All turrets shoot the same ammo type. No Mix and Match salvos (fire AP AND HE at a target)

Game always starts with the guns synced.

 

 

Edited by Sabot_100
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7 hours ago, HamptonRoads said:

skynet.jpg.5d80c6cf82d45562bd84f2307cc15bea.jpg

There is a reference here that I don't get.

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