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Lynx7386

Someone explain this please

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Honestly kicking myself for giving this game a second try here, but I've tried to be a little more level headed about it this time around. I was ready to quit for good and the 95% off starter pack on steam came around so I figured I'd stick with it for a little longer, got the pack with the Ishizuchi, and decided to give battleships a shot (never liked them much before, but it was free and premium so why not).

First, and on a completely unrelated note to this post: The matchmaking changes suck. If I pick "battle" / PvP matches, I want PvP matches, not bot matches. Out of the first 10 games I played following getting that pack, I was the only player on my team for 8 of them, and paired with only one other player for the other two. In every single one of them, my bots decided to kamikaze 5 minutes into the match leaving me to deal with everything by myself, not fun at all - please figure out a matchmaking system that doesnt suck already.

On to the topic at hand: I took the time to watch some instructional videos for WoWS, I learned quite a bit. Among those were videos on how to tell where a citadel on a ship is, and how to hit it effectively.


In a battle tonight, I actually was surprised to see 4-5 players on each team, first time that's happened since I started playing again. I was in the Ishizuchi. I stayed at range for the first part of the match, managed to nuke a destroyer with a lucky shot, most of the battle ended up taking place on the far side of the map so I didnt have a target rich environment available.

One enemy battleship, a Bellerophon, was moving around the edge of the map towards my position. Both of us were at 100% hull. I landed the first few hits before he noticed me, using HE rounds (got one fire set in that initial salvo), and as he started to return fire I used a small island for cover while switching to AP rounds and getting a better angle.

He came around the edge of the island full broadside towards me, I had my two front batteries ready to fire, aimed right for the citadel, let the salvo loose... nothing. Barely scratched the paint. His initial salvo had 4 of his batteries fire off, did a pretty decent 10-15% of my hitpoints on the front of my ship. Without a citadel hit he had already gotten the upper hand, doing more damage than my initial salvo, follow up, and fire had done.

I hit the throttle as he turned towards me. We were only about 2-3k apart. I was able to get past him with my stern pointed at him before his next salvo, and 3 of my guns aimed at his broadside again as he turned. I aimed for citadels once again... got nothing. Another scratch on the paint, and again he managed to take a good 15% of my hitpoints out in one chunk. I dont know if he was getting citadel hits on me or not, I cant imagine he was given the angles we were at, but the damage sure was pointing at that being the case.

He went around the far side of the island behind me, and I turned and went around the other side so we'd meet again, this time both broadside to each other. I had all 5 batteries ready, aimed for citadels... again, not a single citadel hit. He chunked off probably another 30% of my hull there. Twenty or thirty seconds later, and another failed salvo from my ship, and I was toast (despite, once again, turning/angling into his attack to avoid that damage... didnt work).

So someone please tell me why the hell it played out like this? I clearly saw my shells hitting where they should've been citadel strikes, and he was getting citadel-strike levels of damage from what looked like glancing shots to me. My ship had 12k more hull, we've both got 5 batteries with the same size guns, yet the lower tier ship wrecked the higher tier ship while playing, from what I could see, more sloppy. He left his broadside exposed for most of the engagement, never even tried to angle against my shots, he just straight up overpowered a higher tier, tougher ship (probably with more upgrades).

This kind of crapis why I decided to quit the first time around, so pardon if I seem a little frustrated again here but it seems to me that some kind of RNG completely trumped tactics or skill in this situation, and if that's what I have to look forward to... no thanks.

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I'm really not very experienced with the Ishythingy, but on the couple matches I played with it I realized its AP is filled with bubblegum and has the same armor as a cruiser. Ships are quirky, not because it is rated a Battleship means every battleship likes to fight the same way, that's part of the learning process. Play the ship to its strenghts not how you like it to play (if you expect to get from it the best performance). The option is finding a ship that plays in the way you like, so your personal style is aligned with the ship's capabilities.

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Ishi plays more like a battle battlecruiser. The ap is only useful against some cruisers most of the time. The HE is great though and can really roast the enemy team.

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1 hour ago, Lynx7386 said:

Honestly kicking myself for giving this game a second try here, but I've tried to be a little more level headed about it this time around. I was ready to quit for good and the 95% off starter pack on steam came around so I figured I'd stick with it for a little longer, got the pack with the Ishizuchi, and decided to give battleships a shot (never liked them much before, but it was free and premium so why not).

First, and on a completely unrelated note to this post: The matchmaking changes suck. If I pick "battle" / PvP matches, I want PvP matches, not bot matches. Out of the first 10 games I played following getting that pack, I was the only player on my team for 8 of them, and paired with only one other player for the other two. In every single one of them, my bots decided to kamikaze 5 minutes into the match leaving me to deal with everything by myself, not fun at all - please figure out a matchmaking system that doesnt suck already.

On to the topic at hand: I took the time to watch some instructional videos for WoWS, I learned quite a bit. Among those were videos on how to tell where a citadel on a ship is, and how to hit it effectively.


In a battle tonight, I actually was surprised to see 4-5 players on each team, first time that's happened since I started playing again. I was in the Ishizuchi. I stayed at range for the first part of the match, managed to nuke a destroyer with a lucky shot, most of the battle ended up taking place on the far side of the map so I didnt have a target rich environment available.

One enemy battleship, a Bellerophon, was moving around the edge of the map towards my position. Both of us were at 100% hull. I landed the first few hits before he noticed me, using HE rounds (got one fire set in that initial salvo), and as he started to return fire I used a small island for cover while switching to AP rounds and getting a better angle.

He came around the edge of the island full broadside towards me, I had my two front batteries ready to fire, aimed right for the citadel, let the salvo loose... nothing. Barely scratched the paint. His initial salvo had 4 of his batteries fire off, did a pretty decent 10-15% of my hitpoints on the front of my ship. Without a citadel hit he had already gotten the upper hand, doing more damage than my initial salvo, follow up, and fire had done.

I hit the throttle as he turned towards me. We were only about 2-3k apart. I was able to get past him with my stern pointed at him before his next salvo, and 3 of my guns aimed at his broadside again as he turned. I aimed for citadels once again... got nothing. Another scratch on the paint, and again he managed to take a good 15% of my hitpoints out in one chunk. I dont know if he was getting citadel hits on me or not, I cant imagine he was given the angles we were at, but the damage sure was pointing at that being the case.

He went around the far side of the island behind me, and I turned and went around the other side so we'd meet again, this time both broadside to each other. I had all 5 batteries ready, aimed for citadels... again, not a single citadel hit. He chunked off probably another 30% of my hull there. Twenty or thirty seconds later, and another failed salvo from my ship, and I was toast (despite, once again, turning/angling into his attack to avoid that damage... didnt work).

So someone please tell me why the hell it played out like this? I clearly saw my shells hitting where they should've been citadel strikes, and he was getting citadel-strike levels of damage from what looked like glancing shots to me. My ship had 12k more hull, we've both got 5 batteries with the same size guns, yet the lower tier ship wrecked the higher tier ship while playing, from what I could see, more sloppy. He left his broadside exposed for most of the engagement, never even tried to angle against my shots, he just straight up overpowered a higher tier, tougher ship (probably with more upgrades).

This kind of crapis why I decided to quit the first time around, so pardon if I seem a little frustrated again here but it seems to me that some kind of RNG completely trumped tactics or skill in this situation, and if that's what I have to look forward to... no thanks.

Hi, welcome back to WoWS.  Glad you've given it a second chance. 

There are a few things going on here, and it is hard to be precise without a replay (recent replays are available in your WoWS folder, and you can paste a link to a hosting site to help us work out exactly if you'd like). With that important caveat in mind, sounds like some or all of the following happened: 

  • Most common reasons would be: Battleship guns (particularly at low tier) are inaccurate; some of the shells could have hit the water, or the superstructure, doing either no or minimal damage.  Also, the angle of the enemy ship could have been just enough to bounce your shells off its strongest armour plating over its citadel.
  • The Ishizuchi is fast but lightly armoured for a "battleship" and it does not have strong AP shells; personally I've found its HE to be more consistent through the battle (its HE is still not great), and use AP only when circumstances are perfect (like against broadside cruisers at medium range, where the lighter AP shells are much less likely to overpenetrate and instead do massive damage to the cruiser).  
  • Something less well known is that, at extremely close ranges, like you were fighting, battleships have surprisingly wonky dispersion in part due to the physical distance between turrets - furthermore, although the enemy looks plumb broadside to you, it might actually be quite angled compared to the turret firing the shells which then causes bounces when you think you have them dead to rights. 
    • A little more distance between you and your target solves this problem.
  • He was probably able to damage you heavily without citadelling you through racking up multiple 'full penetrations' - if a citadel does 100% of AP damage, a full pen does 1/3, and an overpen does 1/10. 
    • Typically, if you divide the enemy battleship's hull in two, and shoot the upper half of that, you get solid damage (like 8-12k salvos, depending on a range of factors, like how many shells actually do a full pen etc), which at T4 will still put you down quite quickly. 
    • Players who struggle to pen the strongest armour to rack up citadels often switch to shooting the upper hull to instead get better odds for doing medium/heavy damage instead of a massive strike. 
  • Alternatively, or in addition, he could have been getting full pens through your bow and/or stern.  Also, British Battleship HE is unusually strong/powerful, so any hits that you took on your bow, superstructure or stern probably would have hurt a lot too.  
    • Have a look for the mechanics on 'damage saturation' - sometimes, its better to keep your already damaged nose pointed to the enemy as the additional damage it takes is much reduced, rather than turning around and presenting your fresh rear end for a ripe spanking.  In-game, this is represented by how 'blackened' the bow/stern/superstructure is; if its pristine then you'd take (or deal) large damage, and if its quite beaten then you'll late much less (or sometimes nil) damage.  

Having said all that, I think your mindset is totally correct though - and that's often the most important and most difficult thing to get around with this game (and life generally, I suppose).  You have done the right thing in looking at some videos, you were approaching the battle broadly right, you are searching for the enemy's weak points and seeking to strike them in a major way to put them down - really, the rest will just come with a bit of experience.  You can try setting up a training room to see if you can get close and see what you need to do to actually get those delicious cit hits. 

In the meantime, I have copied some information below that may be of assistance to you - also, I'd be happy to division up with you if we're both online at the same time (just send me a message in-game!). 

Good luck!

 

For new players, I recommend the following nations and tech tree branches as easy to learn and to play: 

  • Destroyers: American destroyers are the easiest to play - their fast firing guns, and torpedoes on both sides (at low tier) means that its a fast, fun run-and-gun style, with great smoke screens.  They are very forgiving - rush in, gun enemy destroyers, and if you win and live, then rush up to a battleship and shove him up with torps... once you get more experience, you can do all of those things better, faster, longer etc. 
  • Cruisers: French cruisers are probably the easiest to play at low-mid tiers. Load HE, shoot slow targets at near your max range to set them on fire - when they repair those fires, set more.  Dodge incoming shells (particularly from battleships) by slamming into full reverse and throwing the rudder over into a hard turn - then accelerate away again before the next salvo comes.  Use your long-range torpedos to shoot down narrow alleys where the enemy is coming from - sometimes you'll get a hit, and it'll be great. More fires!
    • DO NOT start on the British Light Cruiser line (ending in Minotaur) - these ships take detailed understanding and experience of the game mechanics in order to play; things like target selection, map positioning, map awareness, spotting mechanics, AP bounce and shatter mechanics, smoke screens, fire detection range in smoke, sonar and torpedo aim all to be functional. Experienced players even struggle with this line.  Steer clear.  
  • Battleships
    • British: These are sturdy battleships that have excellent HE direct damage and high fire chance - unlike most battleships, shooting HE at things will make them go boom. Because of that, and because they have decent armour protection generally, these battleships are easy to learn: aim well, and profit. 
    • German: Much stronger armour, but wonky/inaccurate main guns - you'll mostly be shooting AP shells at enemy battleships and cruisers.  However, your battleships have good to excellent secondary battery (particularly from Tier 7) and are a defining feature of the line.  Because they are meant to be played up close to the enemy, these ships are easier to aim, take solid damage, and encourage your team to push the capture point you're currently on, helping to win games. 
    • French: Low tier these ships arent anything special; however, by mid tier they become multi-barrelled shotguns and by T8+ they become (less armoured) speed demons - a truly varied line that might help you determine what kind of ship you like playing. I found them fun.  
  • Aircraft carriers: Personally, I suggest avoiding them entirely for now - they are very different to play and hard to do well at.  However, as a general principle Royal Navy carriers are easier to play but less impactful on the battle - seek out enemy ships that have just used DCP in order to set lots of fires that stick.  Japanese carriers do far more direct damage with their AP bombs and heavier torpedo plane squadrons, but they are harder to play and you need to understand AP bomb pen mechanics and search for citadels. USN carriers are somewhere in between - see iChase's video guide to get a grasp of the basics.  Also, TopTier's example shows how to play low tier carriers well - in particular, where you should drive your carrier to stay alive. 

Once you have a few more battles under your belt, I strongly encourage you to read the following: 

  • How to set up your game client to get the information you need to win: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSCb96CLCs4
  • (For brand New Players - a full comprehensive guide) iChase's How to get good at World of Warships - I wish this was around when I started!
  • (For New Players) - Wargaming's 'How It Works' series that explains the game's mechanics - important to learn these as it differs to real life.
  • (For New Players looking to become Intermediate) my Ship Role Quick Reference Guide to understand how to get the best out of your ship every battle and how to deal with enemy ships of the same type. 
  • (For Intermediate players) LittleWhiteMouse's guide to How to take control of your win rate:  https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/75077-how-to-control-your-win-rate/
  • For players at any level who are interested in personalised feedback on a particular battle, get in touch with Lord_Zath and his replay centre - its an amazing service that you should take advantage of.  
  • You are under absolutely no obligation to spend money on this game - it is entirely free to play including at high tiers. 
    • Understanding the economics of WoWS and tips for playing as free-to-play: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDgwH2w-k7U
    • Still, if you are interested in buying a premium ship, a discussion on what premium ships are good value for newer players can be found on my New Player Guide Premium Ships for New Players.
      • The second post in this thread has some good advice on how to rapidly become a better player through teamwork and positioning - see Section 3 - its worth a read!
Edited by UltimateNewbie
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I know it's called a battleship in game, but the Ishi was a design study for a battle cruiser that eventually became the Kongo class.  She has more "hitpoints" than the British battleship you faced, but that is because she is bigger.  The ship you faced is a true dreadnought battleship and had thicker armor than your ship.  Just aiming at the citadel is no guarantee that you will penetrate it and score a big damage value.  Getting to know all the ships, and their strengths and weaknesses takes time, and at 105 battles played you are just scratching the surface of the ins and outs of this game.

Play the Ishi like a heavy cruiser, not a close in brawler.  Use your HE, set fires, and be a pest of battleships and a killer of cruisers.

 

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Not sure if this will work but here's the replay, nifty that wows does that, I was sitting here wishing I had recorded my matches... guess I didnt need to.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AVL-vXfl70f0dRLceJteGWeZ8m-lo2KO/view?usp=sharing

In the replay the engagement with the other battleship starts at about 15:40 and ends at about 10:20

Edited by Lynx7386

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1 hour ago, Lynx7386 said:

Honestly kicking myself for giving this game a second try here, but I've tried to be a little more level headed about it this time around. I was ready to quit for good and the 95% off starter pack on steam came around so I figured I'd stick with it for a little longer, got the pack with the Ishizuchi, and decided to give battleships a shot (never liked them much before, but it was free and premium so why not).

First, and on a completely unrelated note to this post: The matchmaking changes suck. If I pick "battle" / PvP matches, I want PvP matches, not bot matches. Out of the first 10 games I played following getting that pack, I was the only player on my team for 8 of them, and paired with only one other player for the other two. In every single one of them, my bots decided to kamikaze 5 minutes into the match leaving me to deal with everything by myself, not fun at all - please figure out a matchmaking system that doesnt suck already.

On to the topic at hand: I took the time to watch some instructional videos for WoWS, I learned quite a bit. Among those were videos on how to tell where a citadel on a ship is, and how to hit it effectively.


In a battle tonight, I actually was surprised to see 4-5 players on each team, first time that's happened since I started playing again. I was in the Ishizuchi. I stayed at range for the first part of the match, managed to nuke a destroyer with a lucky shot, most of the battle ended up taking place on the far side of the map so I didnt have a target rich environment available.

One enemy battleship, a Bellerophon, was moving around the edge of the map towards my position. Both of us were at 100% hull. I landed the first few hits before he noticed me, using HE rounds (got one fire set in that initial salvo), and as he started to return fire I used a small island for cover while switching to AP rounds and getting a better angle.

He came around the edge of the island full broadside towards me, I had my two front batteries ready to fire, aimed right for the citadel, let the salvo loose... nothing. Barely scratched the paint. His initial salvo had 4 of his batteries fire off, did a pretty decent 10-15% of my hitpoints on the front of my ship. Without a citadel hit he had already gotten the upper hand, doing more damage than my initial salvo, follow up, and fire had done.

I hit the throttle as he turned towards me. We were only about 2-3k apart. I was able to get past him with my stern pointed at him before his next salvo, and 3 of my guns aimed at his broadside again as he turned. I aimed for citadels once again... got nothing. Another scratch on the paint, and again he managed to take a good 15% of my hitpoints out in one chunk. I dont know if he was getting citadel hits on me or not, I cant imagine he was given the angles we were at, but the damage sure was pointing at that being the case.

He went around the far side of the island behind me, and I turned and went around the other side so we'd meet again, this time both broadside to each other. I had all 5 batteries ready, aimed for citadels... again, not a single citadel hit. He chunked off probably another 30% of my hull there. Twenty or thirty seconds later, and another failed salvo from my ship, and I was toast (despite, once again, turning/angling into his attack to avoid that damage... didnt work).

So someone please tell me why the hell it played out like this? I clearly saw my shells hitting where they should've been citadel strikes, and he was getting citadel-strike levels of damage from what looked like glancing shots to me. My ship had 12k more hull, we've both got 5 batteries with the same size guns, yet the lower tier ship wrecked the higher tier ship while playing, from what I could see, more sloppy. He left his broadside exposed for most of the engagement, never even tried to angle against my shots, he just straight up overpowered a higher tier, tougher ship (probably with more upgrades).

This kind of crapis why I decided to quit the first time around, so pardon if I seem a little frustrated again here but it seems to me that some kind of RNG completely trumped tactics or skill in this situation, and if that's what I have to look forward to... no thanks.

Yeah the Ishi is well :Smile_hiding: So don't show your broadside like ever that's also a good thing not to do with any ship also :Smile_popcorn:Getting hit on the bow on the sides is especially brutal so point the front of the bow of the ship towards the enemy  :Smile_great: But all ships are like this one moment you have full hp and next someone citadels your butt and there goes 1/3 HP :Smile_teethhappy: So knowing the weak spots of ships and yours is key to surviving longer  :Smile_bajan2:

Edited by LastRemnant

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1 hour ago, Lynx7386 said:

He came around the edge of the island full broadside towards me, I had my two front batteries ready to fire, aimed right for the citadel, let the salvo loose... nothing. Barely scratched the paint. His initial salvo had 4 of his batteries fire off, did a pretty decent 10-15% of my hitpoints on the front of my ship. Without a citadel hit he had already gotten the upper hand, doing more damage than my initial salvo, follow up, and fire had done.

I hit the throttle as he turned towards me. We were only about 2-3k apart. I was able to get past him with my stern pointed at him before his next salvo, and 3 of my guns aimed at his broadside again as he turned. I aimed for citadels once again... got nothing. Another scratch on the paint, and again he managed to take a good 15% of my hitpoints out in one chunk. I dont know if he was getting citadel hits on me or not, I cant imagine he was given the angles we were at, but the damage sure was pointing at that being the case.

He went around the far side of the island behind me, and I turned and went around the other side so we'd meet again, this time both broadside to each other. I had all 5 batteries ready, aimed for citadels... again, not a single citadel hit. He chunked off probably another 30% of my hull there. Twenty or thirty seconds later, and another failed salvo from my ship, and I was toast (despite, once again, turning/angling into his attack to avoid that damage... didnt work).

So someone please tell me why the hell it played out like this? I clearly saw my shells hitting where they should've been citadel strikes, and he was getting citadel-strike levels of damage from what looked like glancing shots to me. My ship had 12k more hull, we've both got 5 batteries with the same size guns, yet the lower tier ship wrecked the higher tier ship while playing, from what I could see, more sloppy. He left his broadside exposed for most of the engagement, never even tried to angle against my shots, he just straight up overpowered a higher tier, tougher ship (probably with more upgrades).

Hang on, let me get this straight-you thought you could citadel a Bellerophon with 12 inch guns? And you were doing it from the side? 

Dude the Bellerophon & Dreadnought are already hard enough to citadel from the top, even American guns have it hard. From the side? No...just, just no. I've been much closer to a Bellerophon then that and failed to score citadels. Let me also remind you that the Ishizuchi is a cruiser, no matter what Wargaming says about it. It does NOT have enough armor to brawl like that. And you really should've used HE if he extinguished a fire that quickly. Just aiming for the citadel will not grant you citadels if the guns aren't big enough. 

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See, this is one of many issues I have with this game. They sell a pack which includes a ship. They label it as a battleship. It's turrets are battleship sized (305mm). It handles like a battleship. It's gun traverse rate is agonizingly slow, like a battleship. Nothing in the description or text says anything about it -not- being a battleship.

But no, it's a 'heavy cruiser' now, and despite everything the game tells you, you arent supposed to use it like a battleship.

It's no wonder people can play a thousand matches and still not grasp the gameplay here; there's no logic to it at all.

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13 minutes ago, Lynx7386 said:

See, this is one of many issues I have with this game. They sell a pack which includes a ship. They label it as a battleship. It's turrets are battleship sized (305mm). It handles like a battleship. It's gun traverse rate is agonizingly slow, like a battleship. Nothing in the description or text says anything about it -not- being a battleship.

But no, it's a 'heavy cruiser' now, and despite everything the game tells you, you arent supposed to use it like a battleship.

It's no wonder people can play a thousand matches and still not grasp the gameplay here; there's no logic to it at all.

Frankly, the other players calling the Ishizuchi a heavy cruiser is an exaggeration.  It has a reputation for being squishy, so if you want to get the most out of her, you should play her like a heavy cruiser - but she is still clearly a battleship in all respects.  305mm guns are common for battleships at low tiers; you dont get that calibre of gun until the top tier super heavy cruisers like Alaska and Stalingrad at Tier 9 and Tier 10.  Ishi is a T4.  Even the T6 Graf Spee only gets 11 inch (283 mm) guns.  Simply put, there is variation between the ships and their roles - some nations preferred heavy armour and relatively weaker guns, some prefered heavy guns and weaker armour.  Some preferred stronger AA, others stronger secondaries, some went for both but made other sacrifices like speed.  Some emphasised real-world considerations like range, seakeeping, sensors and spotting (most of which are less useful in this game which emphasises direct combat),.  All of this leads to a combination of ships with a range of national flavours which, I think you could agree, adds variety to the game.  If there was only 1 T4 battleship and the only difference between the nations was the colour scheme, that would be less interesting than the variety we have now.  

Still, if you want to bring order to the chaos, you can have a look at this Quick Reference Guide which will help you spot which ships can be played like what, and how to counter them. 

Good luck.  

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OK, I've now had a chance to have a look at your replay - just going to make some observations.  

3 hours ago, Lynx7386 said:

Honestly kicking myself for giving this game a second try here, but I've tried to be a little more level headed about it this time around. I was ready to quit for good and the 95% off starter pack on steam came around so I figured I'd stick with it for a little longer, got the pack with the Ishizuchi, and decided to give battleships a shot (never liked them much before, but it was free and premium so why not).

First, and on a completely unrelated note to this post: The matchmaking changes suck. If I pick "battle" / PvP matches, I want PvP matches, not bot matches. Out of the first 10 games I played following getting that pack, I was the only player on my team for 8 of them, and paired with only one other player for the other two. In every single one of them, my bots decided to kamikaze 5 minutes into the match leaving me to deal with everything by myself, not fun at all - please figure out a matchmaking system that doesnt suck already.

On to the topic at hand: I took the time to watch some instructional videos for WoWS, I learned quite a bit. Among those were videos on how to tell where a citadel on a ship is, and how to hit it effectively.


In a battle tonight, I actually was surprised to see 4-5 players on each team, first time that's happened since I started playing again. I was in the Ishizuchi. I stayed at range for the first part of the match, managed to nuke a destroyer with a lucky shot, most of the battle ended up taking place on the far side of the map so I didnt have a target rich environment available.

Just for your awareness, on the replay it looked like when you were trying to shoot at the destroyer initially, your guns were locked onto the cruiser behind it.  This will make it very hard to hit the destroyer.  Next time, if hovering your mouse over the target doesnt make the game switch it fast enough, press X.  Similarly, when you were shooting at the cruiser, you were still locked onto the destroyer.  Locking onto the target you are currently shooting at will greatly increase your hit rate, even at range.  

3 hours ago, Lynx7386 said:

One enemy battleship, a Bellerophon, was moving around the edge of the map towards my position. Both of us were at 100% hull. I landed the first few hits before he noticed me, using HE rounds (got one fire set in that initial salvo), and as he started to return fire I used a small island for cover while switching to AP rounds and getting a better angle.

He came around the edge of the island full broadside towards me, I had my two front batteries ready to fire, aimed right for the citadel, let the salvo loose... nothing. Barely scratched the paint. His initial salvo had 4 of his batteries fire off, did a pretty decent 10-15% of my hitpoints on the front of my ship. Without a citadel hit he had already gotten the upper hand, doing more damage than my initial salvo, follow up, and fire had done.

Firstly, if you set a fire and the enemy puts it out, try to set more fires using HE - it really helps tax their healing and damage control parties when you stack multiple fires onto them.  

Secondly, I think you were aiming a touch low (and the angle wasnt perfect either).  The first salvo you fired got 1 full penetration, and one spash into the sea - you really need to be aiming AT the waterline for a decent chance of getting a citadel on a battleship.  Second salvo was similar - your shells landed into the upper half of his hull, resulting in a full pen.  

3 hours ago, Lynx7386 said:


I hit the throttle as he turned towards me. We were only about 2-3k apart. I was able to get past him with my stern pointed at him before his next salvo, and 3 of my guns aimed at his broadside again as he turned. I aimed for citadels once again... got nothing. Another scratch on the paint, and again he managed to take a good 15% of my hitpoints out in one chunk. I dont know if he was getting citadel hits on me or not, I cant imagine he was given the angles we were at, but the damage sure was pointing at that being the case.

So, the first salvo with your rear guns, he was still quite angled against you and so your shells bounced off his main hull armour.  The second salvo (literally JUST before he went behind the island) you had a much better chance of getting through, but again you aimed slightly too high above the waterline (even if you aim well, dispersion might have resulted in shells hitting the water or the upper belt, but if the shell is spot on you have a much better chance of getting a citadel hit).  

 

3 hours ago, Lynx7386 said:


He went around the far side of the island behind me, and I turned and went around the other side so we'd meet again, this time both broadside to each other. I had all 5 batteries ready, aimed for citadels... again, not a single citadel hit. He chunked off probably another 30% of my hull there. Twenty or thirty seconds later, and another failed salvo from my ship, and I was toast (despite, once again, turning/angling into his attack to avoid that damage... didnt work).

Yep, you were flat broadside to him and he smashed you with a bunch of damage - probably at least one citadel.  That hurt.  Next time, remain obliquely angled so when he comes around the corner he doesnt have a good shot on you like that, and your relative health position would have been much, much better.  

I'd have to watch the replay again, but this time I think you  aimed a bit too far forward - more like under his main guns rather than under the smoke stacks - and were a bit too high again.  And he was a bit more angled that it would first appear.  You still got decent full pen damage on those shells that actually hit his ship (dispersion trolls everyone).  But yes, at this point you are in trouble.  

Right at the end, you were again full broadside to him in a weakly armoured ship - yes, I know you were trying to swing your back turrets around to get one last shot off, but still its usually best to try and preserve your HP instead of going for damage in this game.  Survival first means you have more time to inflict damage later (but camping at the back means you miss too much to be effective, which can also be bad).  For further details on positioning, have a look at the links I provided in my first post. 

 

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you know if I'm not mistaken Mouse did a review on that IJN BB (BC) years ago.

It was one of the first Premiums that came out if I recall as well, think it was out before the Imperator Nikolai.

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8 hours ago, Lynx7386 said:

It's no wonder people can play a thousand matches and still not grasp the gameplay here; there's no logic to it at all.

There is logic to it, but it requires a willingness to be proactive and seek out information.

The player who expects to be spoon-fed the how-to is not going to have a good time.

Submit some replays to @Lord_Zath, to whom I owe an immense debt for teaching me most of what I know about this game. He will analyze them, tell you what you're doing wrong and what you should be doing right in order to get better. 

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Appreciate the referral!  OP, feel free to e-mail me (see signature) or join my Discord https://discord.gg/5y2Nrx7
 

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