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Chain_shot

Going to commit heresy here

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I've been playing dd's the last 3 days and have had a fair amount of carriers drop in randoms. The CV's plus the radar ships have forced me to play at like 15k away for the most part till they are dealt with and the carriers seem to avoid me if I borrow my team's AA when needed. Whats changed is there is hardly any chance to do a sneak torp from behind an island and I have to rely on torping from range doing area denial. Shima does that real well, Gearing is my go to if I am having a bad day with the shima.

To be honest I don't find dd play at this time just as running away from radar ships or CV's. They can ruin my day but its still fun to play dd's.- I just had to learn to be patient. I do see a lot of the french dd's being sunk though.

 

I know heretic right?

 

Edited by Chain_shot
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Saying dd's are still fun and playable. It's not the ddgedon people have been posting about on these boards.

 

Edited by Chain_shot
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Radars are not that bad, you can work around them. CVs are a different animal, sometimes they leave you alone but other times they focus you down. However, that is not just in DDs, also in CL/CA and in some BBs.

I don't think it is heretic to say that DDs are not in as bad of a state as many believe, the proliferation of 12km radar could be countered by slightly increasing the torp range on some DDs to account for the play style you mention. If you don't run into something like 6 radar CA it can be dealt with.

CVs as mentioned are different due to spotting and rocket planes being sometimes just stupidly overpowered sometimes (literally taking 12k damage in Daring from Midway etc.), but overall it is more the frustrating AA mechanic (or lack of mechanic as it is all AI) that bothers me.

Don't get me wrong, I love playing Daring or Jutland most of the times, and other DDs should do okay, too. Reports of their demise are greatly exaggerated.

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Agreed. When I play DD in a CV match, so long as I'm careful, it generally goes fine.  Just takes a light touch in the opening minutes and a keen eye on the map. Figure out where planes are before you commit. Count the radar ships before you enter a cap. Be aware of your detection in comparison to other DDs.

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1 hour ago, Chain_shot said:

I just had to learn to be patient. I do see a lot of the french dd's being sunk though.

 

I know heretic right?

 

the-patient-hunter-gets-the-prey.jpeg.jpg

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Don't need torps w/longer range than the radar...radar has a cool down period after use (specifically if you can bait them to waste it) in which you can slither right up to just outside your detection range & torp them down while spotting them.

If you survive the radar (even if just barely...in fact that charges your torp reload faster w/AR) then you become the hunter...unless there is multiple on your side of the map...which does occasionally happen but fairly rare unless a new line of radar cruisers just happened to have dropped recently...

Oops...all ye who invade these waters give up hope...all is lost :-0

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2 hours ago, Chain_shot said:

I've been playing dd's the last 3 days and have had a fair amount of carriers drop in randoms. The CV's plus the radar ships have forced me to play at like 15k away for the most part till they are dealt with and the carriers seem to avoid me if I borrow my team's AA when needed. Whats changed is there is hardly any chance to do a sneak torp from behind an island and I have to rely on torping from range doing area denial. Shima does that real well, Gearing is my go to if I am having a bad day with the shima.

To be honest I don't find dd play at this time just as running away from radar ships or CV's. They can ruin my day but its still fun to play dd's.- I just had to learn to be patient. I do see a lot of the french dd's being sunk though.

 

I know heretic right?

 

maxresdefault.thumb.jpg.4384e67d350ecbb93fb94d4e1d679d07.jpg

 

Kidding aside though, I still like playing my DDs too.

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2 hours ago, Chain_shot said:

The CV's plus the radar ships have forced me to play at like 15k away for the most part till they are dealt with and the carriers seem to avoid me if I borrow my team's AA when needed. Whats changed is there is hardly any chance to do a sneak torp from behind an island and I have to rely on torping from range doing area denial.

So you stick by your team's AA blob, 15km away from enemy, and just throw torpedoes in the general direction of the bow-on enemies every couple of minutes.

Epitome of fun!

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24 minutes ago, vak_ said:

So you stick by your team's AA blob, 15km away from enemy, and just throw torpedoes in the general direction of the bow-on enemies every couple of minutes.

Epitome of fun!

From 15km back, meaning the ship you are most likely to hit will, in all probability be...green. The joy will no doubt be palpable.

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Well, it's an adaptation.

However, if by chance DDs are being wholesale blasted by excessive radar cruisers for instance, then WG stats would cause the balance team to make some changes.

If CVs did have a turkey shoot with DDs like the first 5 days of 0.8.0, then WG will make changes based on that death toll.

One of the most subtle of changes has always been influenced by numbers.

I agree radar either has to be limited somehow or allow DDs to counter by firing with longer torpedo range.

I like the torpedo range myself. I CV and also play radar cruisers. I play DDs too and I don't see a problem with it. It would be fair.

Now for DDs, I have an idea on that solution. Take away rockets and allow CVs to drop 4 torpedoes or more depending on tier. Since rockets are gone, more planes on deck for other bomber types. So CV players can't say anything about the rockets being gone. It takes considerable skills to drop torps on DDs.  DDs can dodge those. Rockets usually hit too hard and I often felt dirty hitting a shimakazes.

That idea alone might be able to help with DD vs CV interaction. Maybe even drop air detection down a bit too.

Radar cruisers are a niche playstyle, but look positively silly when 4 on a cap are parked outside said cap, radar opponent DD to death, only to shove their DD in the cap, and finally that DD gets radared to death as well.

Then the cruisers have nothing better to do but hurl HE from cover, poking in and out like a lion on a lioness in a national geographic documentary, whilst hurling insults at each other on the debate of who amongst their team will push.

Meanwhile, the BBs in back, unable to push, switch to HE because they need the money 💰.

Watching this go on a stream must be incredibly hard to explain to viewers and I wonder if streamers even try?

Sorry to say that your adapting is great, but I sincerely hope some more balanced changes come down for DDs. From my perspective, cruisers have become a cash cow with HE spamming. You don't even have to land the shells precise to target. It's akin to playing a water balloon battle with one big honkin water balloon thrown at a player that only has to hit close and the player gets wet by thousands of liters of water.

Precision gunnery like hitting secbats with AP to destroy them or even getting the AA blasted off is rare to see. A GK with no secbats on one side is rather helpless if his guns are pointing the wrong direction. That leaves a DD free to just sail up and plug him with a full spread dead center uncontested. 

And that is just an example. I am sure players are coming up with more creative ways to get things done.

I encourage players to feel free to experiment and see all the capability of their ships. You just never know what hidden talents they may have if one just stays one dimensional.

I am glad you found a way. That means you are thinking. That is levels above the average and I applaud your initiative.

Keep it up. You are on track to becoming clever and eventually brilliant is months away. Genius takes longer, but that is another story....

 

Edited by SteelRain_Rifleman

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4 hours ago, Chain_shot said:

I've been playing dd's the last 3 days and have had a fair amount of carriers drop in randoms. The CV's plus the radar ships have forced me to play at like 15k away for the most part till they are dealt with and the carriers seem to avoid me if I borrow my team's AA when needed. Whats changed is there is hardly any chance to do a sneak torp from behind an island and I have to rely on torping from range doing area denial. Shima does that real well, Gearing is my go to if I am having a bad day with the shima.

I'm sorry: You state 'for the most part' you play DDs at 15 k away from the enemy. Not exactly how I see playing DDs in order to be effective for my team (I don't remember seeing anything that WG pushed out about DD play starting with 'Sit 15km away from the enemy and spam torps out in the hope of causing area denial zones.' I do see information about scouting for the enemy team though). However, if this is indeed what you enjoy and find you have to do for the most part then good for you. :Smile_honoring:

5 hours ago, Chain_shot said:

To be honest I don't find dd play at this time just as running away from radar ships or CV's. They can ruin my day but its still fun to play dd's.- I just had to learn to be patient. I do see a lot of the french dd's being sunk though.

Well you wouldn't would you, if you are sitting back 15km away from the nearest enemy in an AA bubble created by the ships you would usually be scouting for, then what exactly have you to run away from?

They ruin your day - yet you find DDs still fun to play? :Smile_amazed:

5 hours ago, Chain_shot said:

I know heretic right?

No just confusing.

Of course you don't run away if you play 'in the main' 15km away from the enemy sitting in an AA bubble. And you state that although this type of play, that you play in the main, ruins your day, you still find DDs fun to play.

 

Honestly I genuinely think you are trying to sum up things from a positive/pro CV stance, yet even with best efforts - still can't get away from stating CV play for the most part ruins your day causing you to have to play 15km back in an AA bubble. I am not anti-CV, but that does not sound as if that is what WG intended? But if you enjoy what you describe, good for you. :Smile_honoring:

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5 hours ago, Chain_shot said:

I've been playing dd's the last 3 days and have had a fair amount of carriers drop in randoms. The CV's plus the radar ships have forced me  AND NOW I CHOOSE to play at like 15k away for the most part till they are dealt with and the carriers seem to avoid me if I borrow my team's AA when needed. Whats What has changed is there is hardly any chance to do a sneak torp from behind an island and I have to rely on torping from range doing area denial. Shima does that real well, Gearing is my go to if I am having a bad day with the shima.

To be honest I don't find dd play at this time just as running away from Radar ships or and CV's, they can ruin my day but its still fun to play dd's.- I just had to learn to be patient. I do see a lot of the french dd's being sunk though.

 

I know heretic right?

 

 

Ft;Fy

Edited by Pebcac

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6 hours ago, Chain_shot said:

Saying dd's are still fun and playable. It's not the ddgedon people have been posting about on these boards.

 

Well, yeah. Kind of. The problem is you cannot go in, and since DD play heavily heavily favors stealth and torpedo strikes, you have to stay within torp range.

Many of the lines the torp range is 8-10k even top tiered.

Radar, which basically every ship has now, has that for range easily.

Even if you do hang back, your team will cry and report you and blame you for their failures because "wheres mah spottin'"

The rare fun DD match is not at all worth the 20 other matches that end within 3-4 minutes or with you being hunted by radar cruisers with overpowered shells (yeah you Italians) or CV's that, even if they dont sink you, highlight you for the entire enemy team to focus apart.

So while DD may be playable in a certain way, it's not at all worth the trouble in the current state of the game.  Itll be even worse when you have to try and hunt down subs on the front lines.

DDs, like so very many things in this game, are broken as hell. While I'm sure the game can be fixed with some hard work and clear thinking, WG does not appear capable of either of those things.

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11 minutes ago, MajesticTwelve said:

Well, yeah. Kind of. The problem is you cannot go in, and since DD play heavily heavily favors stealth and torpedo strikes, you have to stay within torp range.  Unless its RU ghunboat at  4KM 

Many of the lines the torp range is 8-10k even top tiered.  Unless it's a Khab at 6Km

Radar, which basically every ship has now, has that for range easily.

Even if you do hang back, your team will cry and report you and blame you for their failures because "wheres mah spottin'"  Oh no - a lost Karma post.  How is this important?

The rare fun DD match is not at all worth the 20 other matches that end within 3-4 minutes or with you being hunted by radar cruisers with overpowered shells (yeah you Italians) or CV's that, even if they dont sink you, highlight you for the entire enemy team to focus apart.

So while DD may be playable in a certain way, it's not at all worth the trouble in the current state of the game.  Itll be even worse when you have to try and hunt down subs on the front lines.

DDs, like so very many things in this game, are broken as hell. While I'm sure the game can be fixed with some hard work and clear thinking, WG does not appear capable of either of those things.

 

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10 hours ago, Chain_shot said:

To be honest I don't find dd play at this time just as running away from radar ships or CV's. They can ruin my day but its still fun to play dd's.- I just had to learn to be patient. I do see a lot of the french dd's being sunk though.

 

I know heretic right?

 

How dare you have freedom of thought and go against this Forum's Group Common Think?!? Don't worry, your pyre is being prepared as we speak. 

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7 hours ago, MajesticTwelve said:

Many of the lines the torp range is 8-10k even top tiered.

Radar, which basically every ship has now, has that for range easily.

The only T10 DDs with less than 10km are Kleber, Marceau, Khaba. The rest is 10km+, though you have options on some for fast 8km toprs.

At T9 it is again only the french and russian DDs that have less than 10km, the japanese DDs have options for long range and all others are around 10km.

So it is really an issue with T8 and stock DDs, where radar starts to become an issue. Granted, T8 in T10 matches is brutal but it would be even without it. I think the higher number of 12km radars could be balanced by notching all the ranges up a bit, at least for the not all-out-gun-boats (and Kitakaze and Harugumo already have long range torps).

7 hours ago, MajesticTwelve said:

Even if you do hang back, your team will cry and report you and blame you for their failures because "wheres mah spottin'"

Ignore chat, but also you can still do some spotting with radar around, heck even with CVs. The mantra is: always have an exit strategy.

Having said that, the reason why I like DD play is the faster pace and constant challenge of figuring out how to maximize influence with a little ship (roughly speaking). It is a mental challenge and getting enjoyment from that really depends on my mindset, if I am too tired or not in the right mood I can't really play DDs because then I suck in them and lose, get salty etc. Speaking purely about personal experience here!

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10 hours ago, shinytrashcan said:

The only T10 DDs with less than 10km are Kleber, Marceau, Khaba. The rest is 10km+, though you have options on some for fast 8km toprs.

At T9 it is again only the french and russian DDs that have less than 10km, the japanese DDs have options for long range and all others are around 10km.

So it is really an issue with T8 and stock DDs, where radar starts to become an issue. Granted, T8 in T10 matches is brutal but it would be even without it. I think the higher number of 12km radars could be balanced by notching all the ranges up a bit, at least for the not all-out-gun-boats (and Kitakaze and Harugumo already have long range torps).

Ignore chat, but also you can still do some spotting with radar around, heck even with CVs. The mantra is: always have an exit strategy.

Having said that, the reason why I like DD play is the faster pace and constant challenge of figuring out how to maximize influence with a little ship (roughly speaking). It is a mental challenge and getting enjoyment from that really depends on my mindset, if I am too tired or not in the right mood I can't really play DDs because then I suck in them and lose, get salty etc. Speaking purely about personal experience here!

But he states he plays at 15km away for the main - how many Tier VIII - X DDs have torps equal or greater than 15km?

Then to flip the coin and taking the 10km torp range (and forgetting the longer 12km range radar as it is convenient in this example) - How many Tier VIII - X DDs have 10km range torps and how many do not. I think your 10km range is a fair assessment as it is that range where you dance inside/outside radar ranges. I believe having to play the risk presented in launching torps, with the risk of being inside radar range is fair.

Again, I am for CVs in game, and I do not for a minute think all DD players are 'in the main' playing 15km away from the enemy - but I do also consider those DDs where their range are less than 10km and their gun range is around that distance too. We often talk about players having fun, and I do believe choosing to play the DD is a more risky choice at start of the game and then , if you survive, you become more influential as the game goes on. Well more influential if a CV isn't highlighting you - if it is your stealth has pretty much gone as planes can stay up just to spot late game. (However, if there are enough enemy to take advantage of the CV spotting and run the DD down, then I would suggest the team has probably lost the game anyway).

I have tried to be neutral in my assessment (as I always do), but await the usual down votes - God bless my loyal followers! :Smile_teethhappy:

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4 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

But he states he plays at 15km away for the main - how many Tier VIII - X DDs have torps equal or greater than 15km?

My response was meant as an answer to another post where the range of radar was compared to the range of torps. Considering that of all DDs at T10 only three  have a range of less than 10km with most radar previously being 10km I think it was possible to play around radars. Obviously, there will be situations with well timed chain radar and positioning when you are just screwed, but that is to be expected from every class. So 11 DDs have 10km+ torps, vs 3 with 6km, 8km or 9km.

8 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

Then to flip the coin and taking the 10km torp range (and forgetting the longer 12km range radar as it is convenient in this example) - How many Tier VIII - X DDs have 10km range torps and how many do not. I think your 10km range is a fair assessment as it is that range where you dance inside/outside radar ranges. I believe having to play the risk presented in launching torps, with the risk of being inside radar range is fair.

Of those 11 Daring and Grozovoi have 10km torps, next is Z-52 with 10.5km and then you have all those 12km IJN and above torpedoes. So few DDs at T10 would need a buff for range.

At T9 Jutland, Z-46, Neustrashimy, Udaloy have 10km torps. Only Taskent and Mogador have 8km, the rest is above 10 (10.5 etc.) or even above 12km. Again, not many DDs would need a buff for that.

Note that some DDs need an upgrade or have to chose between different torps (IJN boats in particular).

Other than that I agree that having to get into radar range to torp, but only just into range is fair. This way you balance your success of torping someone with the risk of getting caught in radar. So with more 12km radar a slight adjustment of this 10km range threshold to maybe 11 km would be nice. Keep in mind that most 12km radars are actually much shorter than the 10km radars (ca 20 vs 50 seconds).

15km is very long range and few DDs have that (Gearing, IJN torps nobody uses and Halland I believe); the rest is below 15km.

22 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

We often talk about players having fun, and I do believe choosing to play the DD is a more risky choice at start of the game and then , if you survive, you become more influential as the game goes on. Well more influential if a CV isn't highlighting you - if it is your stealth has pretty much gone as planes can stay up just to spot late game. (However, if there are enough enemy to take advantage of the CV spotting and run the DD down, then I would suggest the team has probably lost the game anyway).

Oddly enough a lower tier CV can actually be helpful with radar cruisers due to spotting allowing you to avoid them more effectively. However, I think CVs with spotting and rocket planes are more of an issue than radars in most cases. Also the AA mechanic is really frustrating, but that applies to all ships.

To me playing DD and trying to balance my survival with spotting and damage is the fun part. I cannot always play them though, when I am tired or just stressed from work and just want to relax DDs wont work for me most of the time. DDs can be fun, but having fun in them has become much more of an exercise lately.

 

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1 hour ago, shinytrashcan said:

My response was meant as an answer to another post where the range of radar was compared to the range of torps. Considering that of all DDs at T10 only three  have a range of less than 10km with most radar previously being 10km I think it was possible to play around radars. Obviously, there will be situations with well timed chain radar and positioning when you are just screwed, but that is to be expected from every class. So 11 DDs have 10km+ torps, vs 3 with 6km, 8km or 9km.

I too believe the ability to play against radar is possible if your torp range is around the radar distance; for those DDs that are uptiered maybe not as easy.

It is WGs inability to provide an MM that considers consumables that can lead to situations where a team can have multiple radars is where I think things go wrong. The worst I remember was 5 radar ships 2 CVs and spotter/fighter planes on BBs. In addition there was RPF and the DDs were predominately gun boat DDs (who's main target of destruction are.....DDs).

1 hour ago, shinytrashcan said:

Of those 11 Daring and Grozovoi have 10km torps, next is Z-52 with 10.5km and then you have all those 12km IJN and above torpedoes. So few DDs at T10 would need a buff for range.

At T9 Jutland, Z-46, Neustrashimy, Udaloy have 10km torps. Only Taskent and Mogador have 8km, the rest is above 10 (10.5 etc.) or even above 12km. Again, not many DDs would need a buff for that.

Note that some DDs need an upgrade or have to chose between different torps (IJN boats in particular).

Other than that I agree that having to get into radar range to torp, but only just into range is fair. This way you balance your success of torping someone with the risk of getting caught in radar. So with more 12km radar a slight adjustment of this 10km range threshold to maybe 11 km would be nice. Keep in mind that most 12km radars are actually much shorter than the 10km radars (ca 20 vs 50 seconds).

15km is very long range and few DDs have that (Gearing, IJN torps nobody uses and Halland I believe); the rest is below 15km.

The only issue there is the chance of hitting with a torpedo. Personally I have no fear of torps in my DD or BB, a little more in a light cruiser, the rest depends on the ship. This is because of the multiple methods of either identifying the 'hidden threat' or spotting the torps a while a way. I have both hit ships with multiple torps and the sail on (no not saturation), or I myself have been hit by a no holds barred zerg rush DD, and then killed it.

 For as many years as I can remember the hit rate is anything from around 6% - 12% for DDs (I usually just pick 10%); in fact it may well be the case that 2 BBs are still in the top 5 ships for torpedo hits (from when I last reviewed).

2 hours ago, shinytrashcan said:

Oddly enough a lower tier CV can actually be helpful with radar cruisers due to spotting allowing you to avoid them more effectively. However, I think CVs with spotting and rocket planes are more of an issue than radars in most cases. Also the AA mechanic is really frustrating, but that applies to all ships.

To me playing DD and trying to balance my survival with spotting and damage is the fun part. I cannot always play them though, when I am tired or just stressed from work and just want to relax DDs wont work for me most of the time. DDs can be fun, but having fun in them has become much more of an exercise lately.

Personally I don't think any one thing has/will kill the fun of DD play. I do believe it will be an accumulation of factors though.

For a ship type that has always had the worst survival rate and the worst damage rate, there has been an unnatural fear of the DD. I can only put it down to those players who don't use their screen in front of them to full effect and neglect to take note of the mini-map and other signs of where the DDs are.

I found the situation very similar to you, where the fun had started to be overtaken by the number of ships with spotters, fighters, Radars, Hydro, RPF, CV planes and gunboat DDs (pretty much designed to kill DDs efficiently). The CV itself can hurt a DD quite badly, so you do have to have one eye to scouting and contesting an objective, whilst also understanding the need to be able  to drop back, but it is very much its ability to keep you spotted that also hurts. Again, this has always been the 'type of play' the DD has needed to deal wit - I just feel it is the saturation of some of these elements that has made the play tip from the risk taking/rewarding 'knife fight' or 'deadly assassin' feel, to a more scout and try to survive until later on to be effective for your team.

The only issue there is that if your team has lost, then whoop, you haven't had that chance to engage and 'be involved' - this is a war game after all. If you are caught early - you are possibly dead, and if your team has won the advantage you can try and do something more.

 

I appreciate your thoughts on the matter, thank you. :Smile_honoring:

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25 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

I found the situation very similar to you, where the fun had started to be overtaken by the number of ships with spotters, fighters, Radars, Hydro, RPF, CV planes and gunboat DDs (pretty much designed to kill DDs efficiently). The CV itself can hurt a DD quite badly, so you do have to have one eye to scouting and contesting an objective, whilst also understanding the need to be able  to drop back, but it is very much its ability to keep you spotted that also hurts. Again, this has always been the 'type of play' the DD has needed to deal wit - I just feel it is the saturation of some of these elements that has made the play tip from the risk taking/rewarding 'knife fight' or 'deadly assassin' feel, to a more scout and try to survive until later on to be effective for your team.

Yup. For me it was the accumulation of factors. I used to be a DD main but playing DD, especially high tier DD, is a trial offering little fun. Radar killed the opening knife fights in caps that I loved so much, and CVs basically reduce DDs to target drones. Played three games in Z39 today, and every one was crap. Loaded in with the 43% CV AND a troll div that damaged each other. That one was over at the load-in, so frustrating. Was spotted the whole match and torped a couple of times by the enemy CV who knew how to do that. The other two games I was constantly radared and my torps did nada since someone always had sonar.  

Tired of games like that. Playing DD is a trial unless you are at T5. If you run T7 you're uptiered all the time now -- the MM adjustment screwed T7.

So I switched back to BBs. Won those matches with big damage and first in team score in a couple of them. Have no fun and lose? Or have fun and affect outcome positively? Hmmm, hard choice.

Been playing Kidd in Ranked. If there is a CV I am just food since AA was gutted and turned into a useless placebo -- so fun! Thanks devs! Genius game design! -- but Kidd can be useful if there is no CV. Surprisingly, because Ranked is so BB heavy, sometimes there is no radar. 

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On 7/29/2020 at 12:13 AM, Chain_shot said:

I've been playing dd's the last 3 days and have had a fair amount of carriers drop in randoms. The CV's plus the radar ships have forced me to play at like 15k away for the most part till they are dealt with and the carriers seem to avoid me if I borrow my team's AA when needed. Whats changed is there is hardly any chance to do a sneak torp from behind an island and I have to rely on torping from range doing area denial. Shima does that real well, Gearing is my go to if I am having a bad day with the shima.

To be honest I don't find dd play at this time just as running away from radar ships or CV's. They can ruin my day but its still fun to play dd's.- I just had to learn to be patient. I do see a lot of the french dd's being sunk though.

I know heretic right?

Contrary to what the forum will tell you, DD play is not broken by CV's.  I admit that most of my DD games are with division mates (mostly due to the very limited amount of time I get to play WoWS these days), but nearly all of them are against CV's, as my division mates love playing CV's.  I get caps all the time.  I also win a lot in DD's.  And to make a very heretical, but truthful statement, I find CV's to be ridiculously easy to counter. 

Once you learn that disrupting a player's time management is the #1 counter to CV's, you control them and not the other way around.

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5 hours ago, Ranari said:

And to make a very heretical, but truthful statement, I find CV's to be ridiculously easy to counter. 

Once you learn that disrupting a player's time management is the #1 counter to CV's, you control them and not the other way around.

Can you explain this to me, please? Don't get me wrong here, I tend to get quite frustrated by CVs, not only in DDs, so I would appreciate any help.

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