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Am currently grinding the French BB line, am at tier 7 at the moment, Jean Bart is one of my favorite ships in the game. I'm hyped to get to the Alsace. What's the best secondary build for her? I was thinking something like:

PT, PM, AR, BoS/SI, AFT, CE and MFCSA and then secondary range upgrade in slot 3.

Should I run BFT over BoS or SI? Or swap out Main Battery Reload in slot 6 for the 20% reload decrease on the secondaries? Should I ignore MFCSA entirely and go for fire prevention instead? Auxiliary Armaments upgrade? LMK what you guys think! Any advice on the best combos would be greatly appreciated. Looking forward to playing Alsace in the near future.

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34 minutes ago, thatbruinskid said:

Should I run BFT over BoS or SI? 

I wouldn't. If I recall she has 100mms, which already have a plenty fine rpm. Sure its still a 10% dpm bonus, but BFT gets less useful the quicker the ROF imo. On the other side, SI is going to be super useful with the extra engine boost and extra heal. The difference often between being alive and being dead.

36 minutes ago, thatbruinskid said:

Or swap out Main Battery Reload in slot 6 for the 20% reload decrease on the secondaries?

Nah, secondaries on Alsace are more for funsies. She doesn't get the quarter pen, so it leaves her stuck with her decent fire chance. Even then your main battery is going to be doing more work. Keep that reload mod in there.

40 minutes ago, thatbruinskid said:

Should I ignore MFCSA entirely and go for fire prevention instead? 

I would personally take FP over CE on a secondary build. Seems counterproductive to try to hide while pushing in close (unless you are Odin with the .4km gap between detection and secondaries). As for MFCSA, its a personal call. You have to decide how far into secondaries you want to go. I would stick with MFC if you are putting ANYTHING into secondaries. The only exception being if you are planning a guaranteed knife fight (<2km). At ranges of 5-max km, that extra accuracy is going to work wonders.

 

I am no unicum Alsace player. My stats in her are good but that was from a while back and I believe no secondaries. Just dropping my 2 penny's worth!:fish_aqua:

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1 hour ago, thatbruinskid said:

Am currently grinding the French BB line, am at tier 7 at the moment, Jean Bart is one of my favorite ships in the game. I'm hyped to get to the Alsace. What's the best secondary build for her? I was thinking something like:

PT, PM, AR, BoS/SI, AFT, CE and MFCSA and then secondary range upgrade in slot 3.

Should I run BFT over BoS or SI? Or swap out Main Battery Reload in slot 6 for the 20% reload decrease on the secondaries? Should I ignore MFCSA entirely and go for fire prevention instead? Auxiliary Armaments upgrade? LMK what you guys think! Any advice on the best combos would be greatly appreciated. Looking forward to playing Alsace in the near future.

I've always considered MFCSA to be a waste on any ship because just locking on a target increases the accuracy...not as much but the 2ndaries on the other side of the ship keep firing also.

French 2ndafies are brutal enough to take out stuff already & FP at the higher tiers will allow all (instead of just 1/2) of those 2ndaries to keep firing for a longer time...especially w/all of the HE spammers trying to burn you to the ground.

French reload booster works for changing ammo types quicker (w/out needing to take the commander skill) also so shooting down DDs w/main battery (& speed boost to chase them down while doing it) makes 2ndaries not as needed against them.

If you have top notch situational awareness & are insanely diligent about locking the 2ndaries on/changing targets when a better option comes along/& changing targets as soon as the last target you had them locked on dies (not just when you kill them...you also need to be aware when they die when somebody else kills them) then manual 2nds are fine I guess...but if you don't do all of those things all of the time then you're wasting 4 points to stop your 2ndaries from working at all most of the time.

Don't CV but I hear GZ is the exception on the manual 2ndaries.

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6 hours ago, thatbruinskid said:

Am currently grinding the French BB line, am at tier 7 at the moment, Jean Bart is one of my favorite ships in the game. I'm hyped to get to the Alsace. What's the best secondary build for her? I was thinking something like:

PT, PM, AR, BoS/SI, AFT, CE and MFCSA and then secondary range upgrade in slot 3.

Should I run BFT over BoS or SI? Or swap out Main Battery Reload in slot 6 for the 20% reload decrease on the secondaries? Should I ignore MFCSA entirely and go for fire prevention instead? Auxiliary Armaments upgrade? LMK what you guys think! Any advice on the best combos would be greatly appreciated. Looking forward to playing Alsace in the near future.

I wouldn't bother anymore.  The effectiveness of the Alsace's secondaries against enemy battleships, which is your primary target most of the time, dropped literally by nearly HALF since the IFHE rework.  She's still the same terror she always was against destroyers and cruisers, but your opportunities against these types of targets in a real world setting are far less common than players think they are; only battleships stay in secondary range long enough for them to do any significant amount of work.  Don't believe me?  Just look at the parses against 12x Amagi's @ 8km, numbers are penetration damage only:

  • Pre-IFHE Rework = 19,466dpm
  • Post-IFHE Rework = 10,392dpm

Technically, this does bring the Alsace down to the level of the Georgia and FdG in terms of secondary damage output, but the catch is that their mounts last significantly longer than the Alsace.  Once you start taking damage in the Alsace, your secondary mounts start dying off and that abnormally high pre-IFHE rework damage output begins to scale way down, perhaps even being rendered mostly ineffective by the end of the game, which is a behavior not experienced in, say, the FDG.

So what I'm saying is, you can still spec for secondaries in the Alsace, but once you start taking damage, they're going to start performing like a T3/T4 battleship.  At that point it's just not worth it.

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4.thumb.png.a3f0849511c82e182c9be6346e61ebd3.png

My (pre-0.9.11) build. Like Shadow_Storm419 has pointed out, the 100mm's do minimal damage. Alsace's secondary damage primarily comes from the fire-setting 152mm's.

  • Use either SI or BFA. SI is better if you use a lot of heals in every match; BFA is better if you don't.
  • BoS is not as useful as it sounds on the paper, because, in combat situations, most turret breakages, floods, and fires are repaired, rather than allowed to stay in their full duration.
  • I prefer MBM3 for slot 6, because there are many standoff matches that force me to stay out of secondary range well past the midgame.
  • FP is an overrated skill. Enemy HE spammers can be avoided. They don't need to be "tanked."
  • I prefer EM+AR over CE. The more skilled you are, the more frequently you will reposition to go for the enemy team's weakness (thus EM); and the more predictively you will disengage early enough to survive in low health (thus AR). Unless you are driving a really vulnerable BB like the Thunderer, incoming damage, thru good positioning, can be managed such that you can always keep shooting and occasionally use islands to go dark. That said, if you are newish and stop shooting to go dark from time to time, pick CE (e.g. PT AR SI AFT MFCSA CE).

Own stats to prove I know what I'm talking about:

6.thumb.png.755b7abaf2c965945121bfc7d3fc9152.png


 

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Post-IFHE / Armor update, I would no longer run an Alsace Secondary Build.

Default HE Pen for those 100mm guns is a pitiful 17mm, you can't even HE Pen High Tier DD hulls nor BB superstructure with Pen that bad.

She desperately needed IFHE to have 21mm HE Pen in the previous system, while the hit to fire chances was minor.

 

Taking IFHE today would gut both her secondary and main battery fire chances severely.  If I could freely retrain and change upgrades on Alsace, I'd go with a cookie cutter Stealth - Survival - Main Battery Build.  The IFHE changes gutted French Secondary Builds that rely on the low pen 100mm guns.  Meanwhile IJN 100mm and German 105mm get stupid extra HE Pen bonus.  You may excuse the German BBs because they're brawl specialists, but the HE Pen Buff for IJN 100mm was stupid.  Meanwhile FR 100mm just suffers.

 

Even without IFHE and doing Secondary Builds with the FR 100mm gun, you are left with 17mm HE Pen and that is a pathetic low value.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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I just finished the grind to the Republique and due to the fact I wanted a secondary build for the Republic, ran my Alsace that way as well.  All I can say is that it was very, very underwhelming.  If you plan on keeping your captain in the Alsace or are OK with potentially respec'ing when you get the Republique I would recommend against running a secondary build on the Alsace.

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Why have secondarys on battlships if they just sit around doing nothing? It drives me crazy. Just having secondaries that are useful makes BB's that less boring.

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changed my mind and will not be putting secondaries on my Alsace. The 100mm guns will not penetrate dd hulls therefore are not useful but for fires. Really disappointing. The republique is the only realistic secondary ship.

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On 10/11/2020 at 1:51 AM, Drifter_X said:

changed my mind and will not be putting secondaries on my Alsace. The 100mm guns will not penetrate dd hulls therefore are not useful but for fires. Really disappointing. The republique is the only realistic secondary ship.

The Alsace always required IFHE to be effective.  That hasn't changed.

Republique secondary builds, like all other French BB's, was also seriously hurt by the IFHE rework.  Not as much as the Alsace, but still quite considerable.  Your best bet is to go German or American for brawling and don't look back.

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On 9/3/2020 at 6:00 AM, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Post-IFHE / Armor update, I would no longer run an Alsace Secondary Build.

Default HE Pen for those 100mm guns is a pitiful 17mm, you can't even HE Pen High Tier DD hulls nor BB superstructure with Pen that bad.

She desperately needed IFHE to have 21mm HE Pen in the previous system, while the hit to fire chances was minor.

Taking IFHE today would gut both her secondary and main battery fire chances severely.  If I could freely retrain and change upgrades on Alsace, I'd go with a cookie cutter Stealth - Survival - Main Battery Build.  The IFHE changes gutted French Secondary Builds that rely on the low pen 100mm guns.  Meanwhile IJN 100mm and German 105mm get stupid extra HE Pen bonus.  You may excuse the German BBs because they're brawl specialists, but the HE Pen Buff for IJN 100mm was stupid.  Meanwhile FR 100mm just suffers.

Even without IFHE and doing Secondary Builds with the FR 100mm gun, you are left with 17mm HE Pen and that is a pathetic low value.

No, it's not the 100mm guns that were impacted.  It was the 152's.  Since the IFHE rework, they no longer penetrate 32mm of armor.  Anti-battleship performance is really key for secondary builds, as it's your primary target.  French anti-DD/CL/CA secondary performance hasn't changed with the IFHE rework, but it's really the anti-BB performance that matters most.

  • Alsace's 152mm turret just behind her superstructure has a wonky accuracy modifier.  It's insanely accurate, so the penetration nerf REALLY impacted her secondary output.
  • Republique/Bourgogne's upgraded 152mm guns account for 40% of their secondary DPM, which is a big jump from lower tier French BB's.  A reduction from 32mm to 30mm on these guns has a significant impact.
  • Gascogne's secondary performance tanked hard.  She used to keep up with the Massachusetts, but not anymore.  Even Scharnhorst outperforms her, and T7 battleships aren't as accurate as T8+ BB's are so that's saying a lot.
  • Jean Bart was never viable even though, at least on paper, her secondary performance is a smidgen under the Alsace.  Not that you really want to play this ship in a secondary build anyways.  Jean Bart doesn't have the bugged accuracy that the Alsace does, so it's about equal to that of the Gascogne all things considered, and Gascogne is trash now.

And all that, as you know full well Haze, is working with the France's reputation for having very poor mount survivability.  Not only do they underperform, but they die off too quickly.  There's no reason to run secondary builds on these ships anymore.

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I know this is an older thread, but the proposed captain skill rework will finish off what was left of French secondary builds. It really is as shame. All those skills, and they're useless on anything outside three premiums (and MAYBE the German BB line with the new accuracy buff). Everybody else gets to be cookie-cutter guns'n'survivability.

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On 1/14/2021 at 11:05 PM, AdmiralPiett said:

I know this is an older thread, but the proposed captain skill rework will finish off what was left of French secondary builds. It really is as shame. All those skills, and they're useless on anything outside three premiums (and MAYBE the German BB line with the new accuracy buff). Everybody else gets to be cookie-cutter guns'n'survivability.

Some signal boosting is in order. Maybe someone can spread the word on General Discussions too

 

Otherwise, why do battleships even have these point defence guns that do nothing?

Edited by Ex_Asian_Noone

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here you go...... Alsace a not bad ship, I would rate, better than Republique. Just keep an eye on how many enemies is aiming you, with HE.

alsace build.jpg

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I wish the firing-range-extender skills still available....... it would helps alot 

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