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VaygrEmpire

CV ai in co-op cheating???

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Every time I play co op I have to wonder, how do both my team ai CV and enemy team ai CV KNOWS the location of nearest ship (usually DDs) right after match starts? They always fly straight toward nearest DD, be it player or bot DD. 

shot-20_07.22_02_52.04-0168.thumb.jpg.5c677fdc54b259a067dd0c5a302d387f.jpg

both team's bot CVs flying straight to somewhere, exact same behavior. 

shot-20_07.22_02_52.21-0825.thumb.jpg.499e6c4890278f167823aabf22c9a1cb.jpg

and they detect (mysteriously) nearest DD.

 

another co op game:

shot-20_07.22_03_04.34-0105.thumb.jpg.b616ae2c671f7b1249c0d8c6311e1c0f.jpg

I just started the game, not detected, my AA is off. 

shot-20_07.22_03_04.46-0817.thumb.jpg.ca15b6e8407d7c08bc11f32a3bfffb4a.jpg

There's enemy CV approaching. 

shot-20_07.22_03_04.52-0048.thumb.jpg.7a26ad0a6256778facf435851ce90567.jpg

he just dropped fighters and still flying straight TO ME. I'd expect Moskva or Zao to get spotted first by now...

shot-20_07.22_03_05.00-0623.thumb.jpg.637c8073826a0ee4ba1ce77c783b272e.jpg

but nope,  he's still flying straight to me. 

How's bot CV's script written? How does it know, every time, the nearest location of DD? Is this known issue? Will this be addressed?

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200w.gif

 

Edited by Cruxdei

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Stop being so predictable, next time run to the back and see if you're spotted first. :Smile_playing:

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There's a lot to digest here. Bots in co-op essentially have cheats enabled in order to give them even a miniscule chance of winning and since the average win-rate for a bot is probably hovering around 2-5%, I'd argue they aren't even effective. Moreover, the only thing more pathetic than co-op bots win rate is the aim of bot CVs and their inability to dodge flak. I'm pretty sure bot CVs couldn't successfully rocket strike an island, and I'd bet money you took no damage from that flight or any flight thereafter. No lie, I've never had a DD struck by rockets in co-op, ever. The bots always miss, and badly. I'd also wager you shot down most, if not all of that flight. Why would Wargaming need to address this? Finally...

Bruh. 

It's co-op. I play some games there myself on occasion and the last thing they need to do is make bots even easier to farm. 

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Bots have additional cheats available to them

 

 

 

 

 

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Bots doing what bots do...full speed ahead, straight ahead.  Planes, too.  In every one of your screen shots, you are rushing ahead in the middle of the map.  Bot CV's can't hit a DD unless you go dead in the water, anyway.

You can take off your tin foil hat. 

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13 minutes ago, Brohk said:

There's a lot to digest here. Bots in co-op essentially have cheats enabled in order to give them even a miniscule chance of winning and since the average win-rate for a bot is probably hovering around 2-5%, I'd argue they aren't even effective. Moreover, the only thing more pathetic than co-op bots win rate is the aim of bot CVs and their inability to dodge flak. I'm pretty sure bot CVs couldn't successfully rocket strike an island, and I'd bet money you took no damage from that flight or any flight thereafter. No lie, I've never had a DD struck by rockets in co-op, ever. The bots always miss, and badly. I'd also wager you shot down most, if not all of that flight. Why would Wargaming need to address this? Finally...

Bruh. 

It's co-op. I play some games there myself on occasion and the last thing they need to do is make bots even easier to farm. 

I don't think the OP is talking about the bot planes hitting them. The planes spot you and then every ship that can shoots at you, once hit they all concentrate on you until you are dead or can manage to break contact.  You can learn to use this to your advantage. Some times when there are no CVs in a Co op battle, I shoot my guns before spotting any ships so they fire and can be seen. After that I can pop smoke and have targets to shoot at still, as long as my smoke doesn't obscure the other ships spotting. The bots first salvos are generally off but don't count on that a second time.

OP, if you know the planes are coming adjust your tactics. Make sure you can duck behind an Island till the planes are gone or make sure you are still back far enough that ships can't shoot you.

Edited by Sovereigndawg

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The bots know where every ship is.

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It's because the bot is coded very poorly efficiently, so that they exert the absolute minimum of computational stress on WG servers.

Smarter bot behavior requires a lot more work to code, as you have to code algorithms for the bot's decision making tree. Not to mention adding in "dumb" decisions that the bot may randomly make, so that they don't decimate the player with perfect aim, positioning and focus firing.

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24 minutes ago, desmo_2 said:

Bots doing what bots do...full speed ahead, straight ahead.  Planes, too.  In every one of your screen shots, you are rushing ahead in the middle of the map.  Bot CV's can't hit a DD unless you go dead in the water, anyway.

You can take off your tin foil hat. 

The bot CV planes know where you are even when undetected.  I've played enough co-op recently in DDs to know the bot planes will change course to match your course changes to intercept you.

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Yup, and I've seen the last cruiser unspotted, yet the two remaining bots keep perfectly aimed at him trying to chase him down. Same for torps, they see them as soon as you launch. 

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41 minutes ago, Brohk said:

No lie, I've never had a DD struck by rockets in co-op, ever

 

 They can, and will eventually get lucky.  For the longest of times I had never been hit by a bot's attack planes, and I almost started to think they never will.  I actually started to come to a complete stop and stopped maneuvering if I saw them heading for me.  For a bit, nothing.  Then, while running down a bot CV in one match, a chunk of my HP went bye-bye.  "wth?  The-...wait, everything else has been sunk for the past 2m."  *notices attack planes making another pass*  !?!?!  "Well!  They can actually hit me!  Good!".  While I still more or less ignore them, I have noted that if you are running from them, they tend to connect more often.  So I now do take some evasive action in those situations.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

The bot CV planes know where you are even when undetected.  I've played enough co-op recently in DDs to know the bot planes will change course to match your course changes to intercept you.

Yep.  When you are the only DD: The only time this isn't an issue is when you are on opposites of the map (IE: You spawn SE and bot cv spawns NW).  They will go after the nearest cruiser on their side, until they "spot" you.  Then they tend to change to target you.

 

3 minutes ago, Premeditated_Marder said:

Yup, and I've seen the last cruiser unspotted, yet the two remaining bots keep perfectly aimed at him trying to chase him down. Same for torps, they see them as soon as you launch. 

Then there is the infamous: Ring around the Rosie.  See, it's times like that I'm mad at myself.  I wasn't careful enough, and I cannot blame them.  I'd be pissed too if I caught them sleeping with my sister as well.:Smile_hiding:

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12 minutes ago, Volron said:

Then there is the infamous: Ring around the Rosie.  See, it's times like that I'm mad at myself.  I wasn't careful enough, and I cannot blame them.  I'd be pissed too if I caught them sleeping with my sister as well.

lol

So many times I use that to decimate a bot, and occasionally 2-3 bots, who keep trying to chase me around a rock.

Easiest with destroyers, but I’ve done so with everything else, including carriers. (In RTS, and now.)

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44 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

The bots know where every ship is.

They always have. This is nothing new.

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shot-20_07.25_14_01.49-0782.thumb.jpg.0e0f30546af1b73f5eba236f551b7f8b.jpg

well here we are. the bot IGNORED cruiser in front of DD and going straight for DD... Now is this still DD's fault for sailing straight?

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So let me see if I got this straight you guys are complaining Co-Op it's too hard, Co-Op is where I go after finishing off the half a bottle of screwball whiskey and my higher brain functions have shut off and I still have a hard time losing.  I guess the DD mafia even complains in Co-Op about CV'S.

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11 minutes ago, _Browncoat_ said:

So let me see if I got this straight you guys are complaining Co-Op it's too hard, Co-Op is where I go after finishing off the half a bottle of screwball whiskey and my higher brain functions have shut off and I still have a hard time losing.  I guess the DD mafia even complains in Co-Op about CV'S.

Please don't derail the post. Where in this post do I complain that game being too hard? All I questioned was, how the hell does the bot CV know the location of nearest DD exactly without going around?

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...from what im seeing in your screenshots...the bots are flying straight...probably from the starting locations of their cvs.... your looking for a cheat where there is a straight line...

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2 hours ago, VaygrEmpire said:

 

How's bot CV's script written? How does it know, every time, the nearest location of DD? Is this known issue? Will this be addressed?

The bots "know" where all of the ships are.  They simply cannot target / engage them until spotted.  Co-op bots tend to sail towards their preferred opponent (usually the lowest-health ship on the enemy team / whatever opponent they're currently engaging).  You can use this to your advantage when it comes to planning where to drop torpedoes / how to make them navigate wonkily around islands.  You can also use this to properly time your AA consumables knowing the planes will keep coming for you with specific plane types appropriate to the ship you're sailing (ie:  they won't switch to rockets for a capital ship unless they are LITERALLY all out of torpedo and dive bombers). 

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It's not just the bot CV's, but all bot ships know where every ship is at all times. WG just programmed them that way, to give them a fighting chance to... entertain us hoomanz, lol. :Smile_trollface:

It's one of many "artificial advantages" that WG has given to the bots in the Coop mode. Another example is their crazy torpedo beating ability. 

So next time you're playing a DD in Coop, if you happen to be the ship with lowest health in your team, then chances are that the bots will initially gravitate towards you. You can use that to your advantage, if you know what you're doing.

Aaaaaand I got ninja'd by Miss Maus as I was typing this... lel. :Smile_trollface:

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i wouldnt worry about the bot CVs, the worse they do is spot you, they cant hit jack even if youre sitting still, trust me, i know, ive been at a near stand still in a ship and the bots rockets STILL overshot me

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3 hours ago, VaygrEmpire said:

Every time I play co op I have to wonder, how do both my team ai CV and enemy team ai CV KNOWS the location of nearest ship (usually DDs) right after match starts? They always fly straight toward nearest DD, be it player or bot DD.

Bot CVs and their aircraft is the least concerning thing about co-ops.  They are almost a total non-issue in every respect.

Who cares where or how they spot you?

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Bot CVs in Co-Ops are ridiculously hilarious. They literally cannot hit you, at least from what I've seen as a destroyer captain.

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wth it's not about difficulty or being hit. Who cares about it. It's about how the bot cv interacts with dd compared how the bot ships interacts with any ships. If it's ship vs ship, if you go flank, go straight, or even go backward, bot ships won't come directly for you. They'll always target someone else in your team. 

That's not the case for bot CV. Bot CV will Always, Always come for DD. No matter where you are, they'll come for you. Out of 10 teammates, they'll only come for you. (at least first few waves). I don't care about bot interaction when it's ship vs ship. But I think it's unfair when it's Bot CV vs DD. Instead of least hp pool, for CV case, it should be whoever is detected first. So do something like:

1. draw line (or sphere around planes) to certain point for plane detection range
2. if something is hit in between, grab the state of ship that was hit
3. if the ship(s) that was hit has "spotted by aircraft," target that ship
3-1. if more than one ship was hit, add numbers of the ships affected to array, roll the dice from 0 to number of ships, then target the result

Just because I have least amount of hp doesn't mean I should be "spotted" no matter where I am. Sure it's a bot game, but CV specifically knowing the location of DD, I don't think it's very intuitive. 

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