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T6 Premium IJN CV

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If WG were to make a T6 Premium IJN CV, which CV would it be?

 

The first gal to come to mind was Akagi, but Hiryu/Soryu are options as well since Hiryu was a T7 during the RTS days, and probably easier to tweak than Akagi.  Unryu is probably the highest candidate since she carried roughly the same amount of aircraft as Ryujo, but is faster and likely more heavily armored.  Here are some idea's I came up with.  I know they are crude, with plenty of things I've missed and/or messed up.  But figured I get it out there. :Smile_great:

 

Unryu:

She would use the same Attack Planes and Torpedo Bombers as Ryujo, but would use Kaga's D3A2's as highly accurate HE Dive Bombers.  She would be more focused on her DB's, meaning Ryujo will be able to sortie TB's more often than Unryu.  She would field a squadron of 9 DB's that attack in 3, 3 plane waves.

 

How is she different than Ryujo?  She's faster, more heavily armored with slightly better AA, her DB's are highly accurate (RTS Kaga Manual Drop accurate) that attack with a 9 plane squadron in 3 plane waves, and she does not hold as many TB's.  A proper setup and execution of attacks with her Dive Bombers will be required to make use of this accuracy.  Deviations while in the dive will result in a considerable loss of accuracy for her DB's.

 

Why are her DB's so accurate?  D3A2's are slower than D4Y2's, but also to make her different vs Ryujo and the other Nation CV's, both Tech Tree and Premium.

 

What does this accuracy of her DB's mean for DD's?  Well you're screwed, if you just sit there at a dead stop and let them come.  However any maneuvering done by the DB's in their dive will vastly decrease their accuracy, like how Ryujo's TB's doing any maneuvering during their run makes their spread wide with little input.  They could also take time, much like Ryujo's TB's, to get that tight reticule.  With this in mind I'm thinking they will fly high, like KM DB's, and dive like KM DB's, which would have her stand out vs Ryujo and other IJN CV's in general.  Otherwise, standard attack pattern.

 

 

Now, Akagi and Hiryu/Soryu.  Obviously the main issue with these gals VS Ryujo is the number of aircraft they can hold.  Then again Ranger was "readjusted" for T6 and holds less aircraft than in her RTS days I believe.  :cap_hmm:  However if they use the same exact (upgraded) planes that Ryujo has, they will be flat out better.  But going the Ark Royal route and giving lower tier planes to them, well, let's just say they would make Indomitable look Pre-Rework GZ good, since IJN aircraft are hella squishy.  A6M2's as Attack Planes is fine, but B5N1's and D3A1's would have to be what is chosen for their bombers, a little weaker and slower.

 

Akagi:

A few options are available here:

Option One:  Use what was listed for Unryu, with the change from B5N2 and D3A2 to B5N1 and D3A1, and that she would field the same number of TB's as Ryujo.  Her bomber's damage value for their ordinance would probably need to be tweaked since she carries more aircraft than Ryujo.  The downgrade of her aircraft vs Ryujo may not be enough, but for other reasons you cannot make them too weak since IJN planes are weak as is.

 

Option Two:  Swap her D3A1 dive bombers with B5N1 torpedo bombers, and use them as high altitude (KM DB height) level bombers.  Either a 8 plane or 9 plane squadron, with  their respective 4, 2 plane waves, or 3, 3 plane waves.  Each plane will drop 3x250kg HE bombs with better accuracy than RN level bombers.  The counter to this is the fact that they are flying quite high, and as such will need to drop sooner than RN level bombers in order to hit their mark.  The further "balance" them, it takes a while for the reticule to tighten, much like Ryujo's TB's, and they will have a low fire chance.  They will also be very sluggish while on their bomb run, meaning you will not be able to track nimble targets like Destroyers.

 

Option Three: No changes to plane types used, A6M2, B5N1, D3A1.  In this version, she will use be geared more towards TB's, with a 9 plane TB squadron, with their respective 3 3 plane waves, much like Ark Royal.  A change to a wedge drop pattern for her torpedoes and a decrease in the amount of damage and/or flood chance to "balance" them.  She will use Ryujo's AP bombs in this version with standard attack pattern and same squadron/wave strength as Ryujo (8 plane squadron with 4, 2 plane waves).

 

How is she different than Ryujo?  She's slightly faster and more heavily armored, and carries more aircraft.  Her aircraft are weaker and slower, with exception to her Attack Planes which are the same as Ryujo's upgraded Attack Planes.

Version One: She utilizes highly accurate HE DB's in a 9 squadron, 3, 3 plane attack wave.  Proper setup and execution of an attack is required as any deviation in the dive will result in a considerable loss of accuracy.

Version Two: She utilizes accurate, high altitude level bombers in X squadron, X, X plane attack wave.  While accurate and can inflict good damage, they have a low fire chance and are not as accurate as Ryujo's Dive Bombers.  They are also have very sluggish maneuverability during bomb run.

Version Three: She utilizes more Torpedo Bombers, in a 9 plane squadron with a 3, 3 plane attack wave.  Further more, her TB's drop her torpedoes in a wedge shape and have a lower alpha and/or flood chance.

 

Hiryu/Soryu:

Hiryu/Soryu could be tweaked like Ranger was when she was moved to T6, a decrease to the amount of aircraft she can field.

 

Option One:  Option Two listed for Akagi would fit Hiryu/Soryu best, seeing as (if I recall correctly) she fielded most of her B5N1's in the level bomber role during Pearl Harbor.  That is my reasoning for this option as Hiryu/Soryu's difference from Ryujo.  There are no changes to the aircraft type used in relation to Akagi (A6M2, B5N1).  The change here is her LB's use 1x800kg AP bombs instead of 3x250kg HE bombs and attack at standard DB high level with enhanced RN LB accuracy, with a 9 plane squadron in the respective 3, 3 plane wave.  Very sluggish maneuvering when on bomb run.

 

Option Two: The only change here is the use of 1x800kg AP bombs to 3x250kg HE bombs and the subsequent altitude increase to that of KM DB height.  Very sluggish maneuvering when on bomb run.

 

 

How is she different than Ryujo?  She's faster with better AA, and slightly better armor.  Her aircraft are weaker and slower, with exception to her Attack Planes which are the same as Ryujo's upgraded Attack Planes.

Version One: Hiryu utilizes accurate level bombers with a large AP bomb.  Proper setup and execution is needed as it takes a while for the target reticule to reach it most accurate state.  Her LB's are very sluggish during their bomb run.

Version Two: Hiryu utilizes accurate, high altitude level bombers that will inflict good damage but have a low fire chance.  Proper setup and execution is needed as it takes a while for their target reticule to reach it's most accurate state.  Her LB's are very sluggish during their bomb run.

 

 

Welp, there ye have it.  I'm sure there are other candidates that could be listed as a T6 Premium IJN CV.  If so, please post them with possible variants of loadout.  @Hapa_Fodder  You have any ideas or input?

 

aluminized-fire-proximity-suits-500x500-

 

 

I'm ready!

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Unryuu would probably be better as a tier 8 CV over tier 6 imo.

How about for a tier 6 premium do a light carrier like the hiyou class or zuiho class?

Edited by Koogus
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Been hoping for US and IJN tier 6 cvs in their Midway hull config and air wings..  Hornet and Soryu maybe. Tweak the flight size and regen comparable to Ranger and Ryujo

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Hiryu will end up as either a tier 6 (hopefully) or tier 8 ship in the alternate tech tree line eventually.

Akagi is tier 8 material, with both Kaga and Amagi matching her. Akagi is also kinda big for tier 6.

It would be nice if Akagi is the alternate line tier 8, and Hiryu ends up at tier 6.

 

Ryūhō would be an interesting option, with several ways she could be loaded out, You could use Shokaku's aIrcraft, in smaller numbers and make her a tier 6 Saipan style CV. She did hang around till the end of the war to get scrapped in 46'.

It might also be interesting making her a double dive bomber CV, either giving her D3Y's with small very accurate HE or SAP bombs for anti-DD work,  D4Y's with normal IJN AP bombs, and B5N's with Torps,

OR using A6M's with normal IJN rockets, dive bomber of choice with normal HE bombs, and use the B5N Kates to deliver monster AP bombs as level bombers instead of torpedoes.

 

Hiyo or Junyo are also ok options, but even slower (and if they're using the historical instead of design speed, even slower yet)

a Zuiho class or Chitose-class would also work. But that would also be recycling the old odd number tech tree CV's, and bumping them a tier higher than they used to be.

 

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1 hour ago, Volron said:

Unryu:

Tier 7 ship - Soryu generally is tier 6 (roughly analogues to Ranger) - Unryu was developed off Hiryu, which itself was an alteration from Soryu (why they are on occasion referred to as separate classes). Unryu was really more a lateral change to Hiryu.

1 hour ago, Volron said:

Akagi

Tier 8 ship - your talking about a 32 knot CV basically with at least 152 mm belt armour, 6 20 cm guns, 6 twin 12 cm guns, more than 90 aircraft and over 40,000 tons. She's basically IJN's Lexington - right down to being a converted battlecruiser. Only thing that kept Kaga at 7 was she used to have a historical Pearl Harbor setup, she weighs a bit less, and is slower. And aside from more belonging in the tech tree - 'use lower tier planes' to shove ships in tiers is getting old and irritating, especially while AA is unbalanced the way it is.

1 hour ago, Volron said:

Hiryu/Soryu:

49cnlb.jpg

Plenty of other IJN projects that could fit tier 6 - most just have less name recognition. 

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Taiho:Smile_glasses:   Give me an IJN CV with an armored deck, over 33knot speed, and a 74 plane hangar :cap_win:

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@WanderingGhost

So you would say that Soryu would make for a better T6 premium CV vs Hiryu?  I noticed Wiki did list her weight being lighter than her sister, by 1,400 long tons (standard).  Both are listed as 34kts, with Soryu having just a 1,000 shp less than Hiryu.

This would translate to slightly less hp, acceleration, and possibly maneuverability vs Hiryu, if I were to guess.  I mean, if an alternate CV line were to come, it is a solid point that Hiryu should be moved to the primary line with Shokaku, which is why I listed it as Hiryu/Soryu.  That and I overlooked the possibility of an alternative CV line.  :Smile_hiding:  Course if Soryu is added as a Prem 6, some folks are gonna riot for Zuikaku as a Prem 8 even though we have Kaga, not that it would be a bad thing mind you. :Smile_Default:

 

However @SgtBeltfed did bring Ryuho up as an alternative Prem 6.  We could run with the idea of giving her up-tier'd aircraft somewhat similar to how they handled Saipan.

 

Soryu Prem 6:

Soryu with Unryu's load out or Akagi's Option Two load out.  Her bombers would still need to be "toned down" currently, using the B5N1 and D3A1.  She can still field more aircraft than Ryujo, even if you gave her "recharge" the same values as Ryujo', or less.  This isn't a major de-tier-ing of planes, like Ark Royal.  They would still be high enough in tier to be feasible, while being able to retain the number of aircraft she can field over Ryujo.

Ryuho Prem 6:

Ryuho with Unryu's load out or Akagi's Option Two load out.  She could field B6N1's and D4Y2's for the Unryu load out, or just B6N1's for the Akagi's Option Two load out (Ryujo's 48 to Ryuho's 36).  In both instances she could use B6N's in a 6 plane squadron with a 3, 2 plane wave with her TB role, with her high altitude level bombers using a 2, 3 plane wave.   These are early T8 bombers after all.  However, I would argue that her Attack Planes remain A6M2's, like Ryujo's.  Ryuho is slower and heavier than Ryujo according to wiki.  Trade speed, acceleration and maneuverability for HP is what I would guess here.

 

 

 

Though side tracking a little, I wonder how an alternative line for IJN CV's would look. :cap_hmm:  Where would the split take place?  Right away between Hosho and "???"?  Or would it come after Hosho and be between Ryujo and I would suspect Hiryu?  Let's say it's Hiryu that takes Ryujo's place in the main line.

Primary line of CVs would be Hiryu and Shokaku for sure.  If I were to guess, Hakuryu would stay in the current line since she's listed as heavier and slower, even though she apparently carries almost 20 less aircraft than Taiho.  Taiho, being half the weight of Hakuryu and faster, could fit the alternative line better.

 

So Primary line is Hiryu, Shokaku, Hakuryu.  Alternative line would be Ryujo, ???, Taiho.  I wonder what the 8 would be.  Possibly Akagi?  But I would think she would fall under the Primary line in that case.  Ooof...my brain melted.:Smile_ohmy:

 

One thing I think they should do is bring back odd tier CV's.  While they stated that (not word for word) "they wouldn't bring enough change in game play", they ultimately forgot one critical fact, MATCH MAKING.  Yes, in the RTS days every now and again I would see 8's as a T6, but no where near as often as I do now.  As an 8, I did see 10's but again, no where near as often as now.  The MM "issue" feels like it really went bonkers when the Rework Dropped.

 

Back on topic:  It would appear that Soyru and Ryujo would make decent candidates for a Prem 6 CV for the IJN.

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4 minutes ago, Volron said:

@WanderingGhost

So you would say that Soryu would make for a better T6 premium CV vs Hiryu?  I noticed Wiki did list her weight being lighter than her sister, by 1,400 long tons (standard).  Both are listed as 34kts, with Soryu having just a 1,000 shp less than Hiryu.

This would translate to slightly less hp, acceleration, and possibly maneuverability vs Hiryu, if I were to guess.  I mean, if an alternate CV line were to come, it is a solid point that Hiryu should be moved to the primary line with Shokaku, which is why I listed it as Hiryu/Soryu.  That and I overlooked the possibility of an alternative CV line.  :Smile_hiding:  Course if Soryu is added as a Prem 6, some folks are gonna riot for Zuikaku as a Prem 8 even though we have Kaga, not that it would be a bad thing mind you. :Smile_Default:

 

However @SgtBeltfed did bring Ryuho up as an alternative Prem 6.  We could run with the idea of giving her up-tier'd aircraft somewhat similar to how they handled Saipan.

 

Soryu Prem 6:

Soryu with Unryu's load out or Akagi's Option Two load out.  Her bombers would still need to be "toned down" currently, using the B5N1 and D3A1.  She can still field more aircraft than Ryujo, even if you gave her "recharge" the same values as Ryujo', or less.  This isn't a major de-tier-ing of planes, like Ark Royal.  They would still be high enough in tier to be feasible, while being able to retain the number of aircraft she can field over Ryujo.

Ryuho Prem 6:

Ryuho with Unryu's load out or Akagi's Option Two load out.  She could field B6N1's and D4Y2's for the Unryu load out, or just B6N1's for the Akagi's Option Two load out (Ryujo's 48 to Ryuho's 36).  In both instances she could use B6N's in a 6 plane squadron with a 3, 2 plane wave with her TB role, with her high altitude level bombers using a 2, 3 plane wave.   These are early T8 bombers after all.  However, I would argue that her Attack Planes remain A6M2's, like Ryujo's.  Ryuho is slower and heavier than Ryujo according to wiki.  Trade speed, acceleration and maneuverability for HP is what I would guess here.

 

 

 

Though side tracking a little, I wonder how an alternative line for IJN CV's would look. :cap_hmm:  Where would the split take place?  Right away between Hosho and "???"?  Or would it come after Hosho and be between Ryujo and I would suspect Hiryu?  Let's say it's Hiryu that takes Ryujo's place in the main line.

Primary line of CVs would be Hiryu and Shokaku for sure.  If I were to guess, Hakuryu would stay in the current line since she's listed as heavier and slower, even though she apparently carries almost 20 less aircraft than Taiho.  Taiho, being half the weight of Hakuryu and faster, could fit the alternative line better.

 

So Primary line is Hiryu, Shokaku, Hakuryu.  Alternative line would be Ryujo, ???, Taiho.  I wonder what the 8 would be.  Possibly Akagi?  But I would think she would fall under the Primary line in that case.  Ooof...my brain melted.:Smile_ohmy:

 

One thing I think they should do is bring back odd tier CV's.  While they stated that (not word for word) "they wouldn't bring enough change in game play", they ultimately forgot one critical fact, MATCH MAKING.  Yes, in the RTS days every now and again I would see 8's as a T6, but no where near as often as I do now.  As an 8, I did see 10's but again, no where near as often as now.  The MM "issue" feels like it really went bonkers when the Rework Dropped.

 

Back on topic:  It would appear that Soyru and Ryujo would make decent candidates for a Prem 6 CV for the IJN.

Under the RTS CV's, Hakuryu carried 150 aircraft if I remember correctly, and certainly carried more than Taiho. She's literally an upscaled Taiho.

If you were to swap any CV's between two IJN lines, it would be easier to put Shokaku in the alternate line and say, Akagi in the main line as a tier 8. That would make the alternate line a line of fast CV's, with the actual evolution of the IJN carriers, and leave the main line as a hodge-podge of CV's, which is also very representative of IJN CV construction.

Of course, it doesn't really matter what CV ends up in each line, as they are largely going to be defined by their aircraft. One neat thing about the Kido Butai is, despite only having 28 carriers in at least name, they had 14 different classes of CV with a fair amount of duplication in capability, so there's room for a third line of CV's if needed, provided that something different can be done with the air wings.

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3 hours ago, Volron said:

So you would say that Soryu would make for a better T6 premium CV vs Hiryu?  I noticed Wiki did list her weight being lighter than her sister, by 1,400 long tons (standard).  Both are listed as 34kts, with Soryu having just a 1,000 shp less than Hiryu.

This would translate to slightly less hp, acceleration, and possibly maneuverability vs Hiryu, if I were to guess.  I mean, if an alternate CV line were to come, it is a solid point that Hiryu should be moved to the primary line with Shokaku, which is why I listed it as Hiryu/Soryu.  That and I overlooked the possibility of an alternative CV line.  :Smile_hiding:  Course if Soryu is added as a Prem 6, some folks are gonna riot for Zuikaku as a Prem 8 even though we have Kaga, not that it would be a bad thing mind you. :Smile_Default:

 

However @SgtBeltfed did bring Ryuho up as an alternative Prem 6.  We could run with the idea of giving her up-tier'd aircraft somewhat similar to how they handled Saipan.

Wikipedia doesn't paint the full picture -

Hiryu is slightly bigger overall than Soryu, is heavier which would mean more HP, could carry a few more planes, and has slight better armour protection as far as things that fact or in this game (fuel storage and freeboard height not being one). Making Hiryu sort of an inbetween of Soryu and Shokaku (that had some of the same improvements over Soryu).

One of the many reasons I've been fighting to get odd tiers back - the absolutely poor representation of development existing in these current lines. That and some tips shouldn't be where the are by comparison. Historical Kaga fits at tier 7 due to her A6M2's, B5N's and D3A's, not having the most advanced guns, etc - the mockery they put at tier 8 to shoehorn it in has no place and should just run standard tier aircraft at that point. But premiums should be historical when they aren't paper - and Wargaming has broken that rule exclusively for CV's and it burns me up. Kaga should return to tier 7 with changes to be historically accurate (arguably the only IJN ship currently in game that should have AP bombs - that should be dropped from level flight because at most 1 IJN plane could safely carry and use the 800 kg AP bomb in a dive, and even then that's unconfirmed the B7A could the actual use of the 80 kg P bombs were TB's acting as level bombers - one of the things Michael Bay actually got right. And then yeah - Zuikaku should be tier 8. 

Also not sure you need to increase plane counts on Ryuho when according to Wargaming a Fleet Carrier (Ranger) capable of carrying 70+ planes is equal to a CVL (Ryujo) that generally only had about 40 planes. Another option is Shinyo - Weser's IJN cousin/sister based off the same class of passenger liner. Or any other number of ships. 

Have a workup of 2 full lines and an admittedly incomplete 3rd CVE/L line for IJN - with many of the CVE/L tiered up because they are a somewhat different concept or would make up for potentially smaller numbers (most CV's have maybe half their actual counts) have faster plane regen times. Though to be consistent with USN were it to go with the ASW concept I proposed sometime back and that others have talked about wanting could remove several that become premiums at lower tiers. 

3 hours ago, SgtBeltfed said:

Under the RTS CV's, Hakuryu carried 150 aircraft if I remember correctly, and certainly carried more than Taiho. She's literally an upscaled Taiho.

If you were to swap any CV's between two IJN lines, it would be easier to put Shokaku in the alternate line and say, Akagi in the main line as a tier 8. That would make the alternate line a line of fast CV's, with the actual evolution of the IJN carriers, and leave the main line as a hodge-podge of CV's, which is also very representative of IJN CV construction.

Of course, it doesn't really matter what CV ends up in each line, as they are largely going to be defined by their aircraft. One neat thing about the Kido Butai is, despite only having 28 carriers in at least name, they had 14 different classes of CV with a fair amount of duplication in capability, so there's room for a third line of CV's if needed, provided that something different can be done with the air wings.

No, Hakuryu carried about 100 aircraft, Midway was closer to 150 which gave it a higher number of squadron reloads and a further edge over Hakuryu, which then Wargaming made the boneheaded call as Hak was running out of planes too fast to nerf Midways hanger instead of buff Hak's to 120/121 (which would have achieved the same reload ratio as Midway effectively - and is what the eventual Midway nerf did without solving the issue albeit they added 3 planes to my number for even out purposes). Called them out the day they said they would nerf Midway to I think it was 90 planes or some other absolutely stupid number that anyone with a calculator should have figured out was too much, let alone a clue of CV gameplay. Also yes, it is an upscale Taiho, effectively project G-15 (improved Taiho class), much like Unryu aside from the Ikoma spin off (somewhat similar to Soryu vs Hiryu) had G-18. 

The hodge podge doesn't really make sense, not in that line anyway - if we get odd tiers back Ryujo should be down tiered to 5 (albeit still part of the line) but if they really insist on his evens only cap sorry to say if Ranger is tier 6 than Ryujo should be removed for Soryu or Hiryu - which have a direct line in construction and development to Shokaku and Taiho/Hak, much the same as Yorktown should supplant Lexington in a similar scenario - though both IJN and USN between built and considered designs can both field second full tech lines of ships converted to CV's -  including Independence  and Lexington (6 and 8) and Zuiho and Akagi (5 and 8). 

Also depends on what you look at. IJN primarily had 3 types of ordnance -HE bombs, SAP bombs, and torpedoes. AP bombs weren't really used other than occasional armoured land targets and Pearl. They did have some rocket development - mostly AA/incendiary with 1 actual standard rocket and 1 IJA spin off similar to Tiny Tim. 

A truly historical line (having the larger number of CV's that were at Midway and Pearl, would argue the Soryu-Hak line) omit the attack planes possibly (or arm them with bombs) for a group of HE bombers, a group of TB's, and SAP bombs (maybe akin to Italian SAP shells but  small fire chance and possibly a little more pen) with an option to have level AP bombers to swap out for the TB's and/or DB's, level AP bombers that would be excellent for use vs heavily armoured ships (BB's, maybe some CV's and battlecruisers) but between lower overall accuracy and overpen less effective vs others. Keeping in mind that unlike AP DB's the level bombers AP would be consistent on what it pens/overpens when hitting the same spot. Basically more a BB hunting line.

The other line having Akagi and Shinano having ships particularly on the top end with some actual protection and secondaries (would personally give Shinano the 100 mm guns it was supposed to get like on Aki-Harugumo) gear more for anti-cruiser work. Add rockets as an option on attack planes, depending on chosen ones maybe less bang more fire starting. Slight change to number of TB's, slightly larger groups similar to old USN (5-6 per strike) but less damage per torpedo. SAP DB's slot 3 (likely citadel's some cruisers, at least CL)

Line 3 - mostly CVE/CVL likely, so lean more on DD/sub hunting - Rockets, HE bombs, SAP bombs, possibly somewhat higher accuracy, depth charges maybe on one group as an option.

Those just being rough ideas for making the 3 lines different off the top of my head. Unfortunately unless we wanna get really crazy with making up planes for them or taking land based planes, not many option on alternate planes. Unlike USN which has (as far as I know) way more options that were proposed/tested for full CV use if not implemented like the F5F, F7F, and F5U (as twin engine attack planes), The Grumman XTB2F and XTSF as well as the North American PBJ-H (successfully tested off and back on to an Essex class CV) for twin engine TB/Bomber/DB/etc. 

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We won't be getting the odd tiers back as odd tiers, and keeping historical airwings with IJN carriers will produce a line of Kaga's. The Japanese didn't produce any aircraft in number beyond tier 7, and that's what they fought the war with. Doesn't sound exciting or something I'd spend money on after having Kaga.

Ryujo is not tier 5 material, she was, and still is, the basic tier 6 CV that all others are judged against. No other country built a ship that fit that hole in game so well, and probably with good reason.

You're also never going to see an anti-DD line of CV's, the DD players would go nuts and burn WG down. 

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Late comment but a really dumb and random idea came to my mind for a tier 6 CV........ Akitsu Maru. Before you say anything yes I know she is actaully a amphibious assault ship (one of the first ones ever I believe) but since wows isnt a realistic and historical accurate game why not classify her as a "CV".

One of the biggest reasons why I think it would be a interesting idea to make her a tier 6 premium CV is the aircraft that she uses.

The ki-76

Kokusai_Ki-76.jpg.2def918f7c1e4d336546f90dbf7be5ce.jpg

ka-1 (autogyro)

kayaba_ka-1_1.jpg.61c5e5d5b6b00816f8e6a5964d09f90c.jpg

Historically these aircraft only used anti sub bombs and were mostly meant for spotting but for wows why not give the ki-76 rockets and the ka-1 regular bombs (maybe give reverses for both ap and he dive bombers)?

Possible Pros:

-Stealthy ship and aircraft

-maneruable aircraft (especially the ka-1)

-ships got decent speed to get around for her tier and class

-regained downed aircraft at a good speed

 

Possible cons:

-slow planes (especially the ka-1)

- aircraft are more on the fragile side 

-small plane reserves 

-ship has a low health pool

-no torpedo aircraft

 

It's been quite a while since I made a post like this so sorry for any spelling and formatting (might make this idea it's own post too)

Edited by Koogus

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9 hours ago, SgtBeltfed said:

We won't be getting the odd tiers back as odd tiers, and keeping historical airwings with IJN carriers will produce a line of Kaga's. The Japanese didn't produce any aircraft in number beyond tier 7, and that's what they fought the war with. Doesn't sound exciting or something I'd spend money on after having Kaga.

Ryujo is not tier 5 material, she was, and still is, the basic tier 6 CV that all others are judged against. No other country built a ship that fit that hole in game so well, and probably with good reason.

You're also never going to see an anti-DD line of CV's, the DD players would go nuts and burn WG down. 

Wargaming's stance on return of odd tiers, much like Submarines and direct control of planes, has softened so not ruling it out.

I will also clarify that when I said historical - I was not referring fully to air wings in regards to aircraft but in terms of ordnance and usage of - I'm aware that IJN has a certain lack in planes, just as I'm aware there are some in Germany, potentially France, seems like Italy, etc. I'm not the lunatic going 'it must be a historically accurate sim'. Tech tree ships there is play room, always been fine with that. Why you never see me complain about Shokaku having N1K's, or Hak existing (albeit if odd tiers were gone forever I'd insist Taiho replace it as Taiho was built, Hak wasn't) - I only go after premiums on the aircraft front and the like, like Kaga, because those ones are supposed to have historical armaments, modules, etc. Wargaming wants 'national flavours' - fine, then lets look at what the nations had and used. Japan used level bombers, not UK, UK like USN used dive bombing albeit more of their planes were designed around torpedoes and could carry bombs or carried more of smaller bombs. Where as UK put focus on Rockets and TB's USN put it in Rockets and DB's. Germany had relatively limited production and use on aerial torpedoes, focusing more on bombing and developing dive bombers and ground attack aircraft with high accuracy. 

Okay - lets look at Ryujo for a second: Full displacement just over 10k tons, speed 29 knots, ~38 aircraft, getting up to 1200 tons of solid balast and bulges in 1936 raised that max over 13k, CVL designation.

Bogue is in the same weight class as her 1936 refit, a handful fewer planes, and yeah, slower.

Independence - former tier 6, 1000 tons more, similar compliment, slightly faster

Ranger - current tier 6, 3-4000 tons heavier, similar speed, carried more than 70 aircraft, fleet CV, actual armour protection, and nearly 30% larger to boot. 

Furious - Roughly double the displacement of Ryujo, 1 knot faster, similar air compliment, fleet CV, actual armour, 30% longer. 

Ark Royal - Again double he tonnage, 2 knots faster, 54 aircraft, actual armour protection, 30% longer, 20-25% wider

Weser - Standard displacement is 4000 tons heavier than Ryujo's full. Aircraft compliment is unknown beyond what the Luftwaffe would have given them - hanger storage space dependent on which planes, what numbers, and how stored, but can get in to the same range of aircraft. 3 knots faster, Actual armour and yet again a physically larger ship. 

All  3 tech tree and sole T6 premium are generally considered fleet carriers, Weser is the only iffy one. All are larger ships, they match or surpass it's speed, armour protection, and air compliment. They are all in a different weight class as well. Meanwhile - Ryujo is closer to Bogue - the former tier 5, and Independence - replaced at tier 6 by Ranger. Hiryu as far as existing ships would be closer to what every other nation has at tier 6 so far, Soryu though would be the more precise fit being that little bit lighter and all. Maybe under RTS what you say was true - though I would still debate that CVE/L should have been tier 4 and 5, not 6 due to seeing tier 8 ships and what not. To say nothing of ships like Yorktown omitted for them and being a relic of the original plane tree's where they used biplanes through tier 7 of which that was accurate to Ryujo but not Independence, and with the change to more modern planes, has shifted more now that Ryujo is the less accurate one. Even Zuiho - the former tier 5 IJN, has more displacement, is larger, with only sightly smaller air group and being a knot slower holding it back. It has more in common with old tier 5's and supplanted 6's that would likely now be 5's, than it does the current tier 6 CV's.

Well - were still here after Atlanta, Radar, DWT's, IFHE, RPF, MIC, KEY, MOUSE. Most newer DD lines have good AA, generally the older ones need better AA, they still are no longer spotted in smoke, CV's are sitting ducks, spotting ranges have been reduced and may be reduced further if the change in testing goes through, Rocket damage on RP-3's and HVAR needs to be nerfed sure but they've already had attack plane mobility and bomb accuracy nerfed, they may change the cover area of rockets in a way that benefits them, all of which is a long way of saying as someone who does play DD's, that they can go cry me a river. Especially because as much as I suggest it - I'd be the minority who even plays it. Because other than when a new DD line comes out, swarming MM with some crazy DD numbers - people will hate them and whine they are too weak. Why - because they don't have torpedoes and would have to use DoT from fires to inflict mass damage on BB's and cruisers. Just like with USN under RTS, just like with GZ, Just like with Indomitable (which admittedly isn't good,but that's not because of lack of torps), etc. Even Friesland met that kind of resistance cause it doesn't have instant big number damage ability.

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