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Edgecase

Rocket ellipses in 0.9.7

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In 0.9.7, WG is rotating all "long" rocket attack ellipses to be "wide" instead. A few videos have been released on this topic already, but I didn't see any side-by-side comparison images go by. So I spent some time to make one. Enjoy.

XmmgjUN.jpg

Some important details:

  • All of the reticles above are fully converged, i.e. the tightest they can possibly get.
  • The shape of a converged reticle is NOT necessarily the shape of the white outline. As they dial in, many dispersion patterns "squish" into fairly different shapes from what they started as.
  • Vertical dispersion hurts rockets far less than horizontal. Because ships have some height to them, they catch rockets that would normally have dispersed "above" the footprint of the ship. There is no analogous effect left-to-right. Consequently, wide ellipses are inherently more dodgeable than tall ones.

 

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Nice info cheers Edgecase +1.

Yes easier to dodge spreads is likely what they were going for.

Edited by Sumseaman

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Thank you very much.

I assume we are looking in the direction the aircraft does the attack run?

Edited by Learux

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Not a regular CV player.  Occasionally play them at lower tiers for directives.  Does this mean that in order to get 'full' benefit from a rocket attack you will have to come in on a targets broadside?  

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2 minutes ago, Captain_Rawhide said:

Not a regular CV player.  Occasionally play them at lower tiers for directives.  Does this mean that in order to get 'full' benefit from a rocket attack you will have to come in on a targets broadside?  

Correct, all CVs will now prefer rocket attacks into broadside targets. That means that all ships facing a rocket attack should attempt to countermaneuver to be as bow- or stern-on as possible.

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20 minutes ago, Sumseaman said:

Nice info cheers Edgecase +1.

Yes easier to dodge spreads is likely what they were going for.

Can I laugh if it takes not even a week ( or less,) for the complainers to start kvetching that they’re being hit even more than before?

Many folks, it seems, don’t even TRY to mitigate a carrier attack; what makes you think they’re suddenly going to start doing so, just because the reticle changed?

Edited by Estimated_Prophet
typo
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1 minute ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Can I laugh if it takes not even a week ( or less,) for the complainers to start kvetching that they’re being even more than before?

Many folks, it seems, don’t even TRY to mitigate a carrier attack; what makes you think they’re suddenly going to start doing so, just because the reticle changed?

You turn into one attack they just going to go to your weak side that isn't reinforce and hit you broadside with the rockets anyways. It's not like it's going to really change anything unless you have Sims level ruddershift time and turning circle.

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This reduces the variety (AP rockets or not, broadside it) of using different carriers, but helps DDs ultimately, and the playerbase, so it's fine. 

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19 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

Correct, all CVs will now prefer rocket attacks into broadside targets. That means that all ships facing a rocket attack should attempt to countermaneuver to be as bow- or stern-on as possible.

Thank you!

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Nice. Hopefully this makes using rocket planes not feel like your shooting fish in a barrel.

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23 minutes ago, Koogus said:

Nice. Hopefully this makes using rocket planes not feel like your shooting fish in a barrel.

Right, now it would feel like shooting fish in a tub

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10 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Right, now it would feel like shooting fish in a tub

Depends what kind of fish we talking here..... goldfish or tuna?

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48 minutes ago, Koogus said:

Depends what kind of fish we talking here..... goldfish or tuna?

is salmon on the menu?

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2 hours ago, Edgecase said:
  • The shape of a converged reticle is NOT necessarily the shape of the white outline. As they dial in, many dispersion patterns "squish" into fairly different shapes from what they started as.

I really appreciate that you put time into making this picture! Thanks for this service!

May I ask exactly what the quoted bullet point means? Isn't the white outline the fully converged reticle? Or is there a discrepancy because of the viewing angle? Thanks!

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35 minutes ago, henrychenhenry said:

I really appreciate that you put time into making this picture! Thanks for this service!

May I ask exactly what the quoted bullet point means? Isn't the white outline the fully converged reticle? Or is there a discrepancy because of the viewing angle? Thanks!

The white outline is actually the starting point from which the reticle shrinks or grows depending on whether you hold your aim still. It's neither the smallest nor the largest the reticle can get.

Here are two superimposed images taken from the map view (hence the tiny resolution, sorry).

juNoMv0.png

The white reticle is the projection shown when flying around. The green reticle is the fully converged ellipse. You can see that it is both much smaller, but also has changed from a "wide" blob to one that is actually taller than it is wide. It didn't simply shrink. (I believe these particular images are Midway HVAR from the current patch 0.9.6.)

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4 hours ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Can I laugh if it takes not even a week ( or less,) for the complainers to start kvetching that they’re being hit even more than before?

Many folks, it seems, don’t even TRY to mitigate a carrier attack; what makes you think they’re suddenly going to start doing so, just because the reticle changed?

Nobody thinks those that don't dodge already will begin to dodge.

Straight liners will still straight line & will take even more damage than before...but those that do dodge will take less hits now than before.

4 hours ago, Vekta408 said:

You turn into one attack they just going to go to your weak side that isn't reinforce and hit you broadside with the rockets anyways. It's not like it's going to really change anything unless you have Sims level ruddershift time and turning circle.

This has nothing to do w/what side is reinforced (or if no side is reinforced).

Turn bow or stern into a plane attack & take less damage...stay broadside & take more.

Any DD in the game can easily line up either their bow or stern against rocket planes by the time they pass & come back around...even the ones that aren't smart enough to turn off their AA & go undetected.

Is Sims' (1 of the 1st 3 ships in the game) rudder shift still that impressive compared to all the other DDs in the game after all of these years? If so...so much for all the claims of power creep.

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16 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

Nobody thinks those that don't dodge already will begin to dodge.

Straight liners will still straight line & will take even more damage than before...but those that do dodge will take less hits now than before.

This has nothing to do w/what side is reinforced (or if no side is reinforced).

Turn bow or stern into a plane attack & take less damage...stay broadside & take more.

Any DD in the game can easily line up either their bow or stern against rocket planes by the time they pass & come back around...even the ones that aren't smart enough to turn off their AA & go undetected.

Is Sims' (1 of the 1st 3 ships in the game) rudder shift still that impressive compared to all the other DDs in the game after all of these years? If so...so much for all the claims of power creep.

The game has more than DD in it. Nice attempt to try justifying the powercreep everywhere else in the game though.

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4 hours ago, Vekta408 said:

You turn into one attack they just going to go to your weak side that isn't reinforce and hit you broadside with the rockets anyways. It's not like it's going to really change anything unless you have Sims level ruddershift time and turning circle.

I can see that even before the release of the changes were already using the same excuse.  If you were talking about a BB or a cruiser with poor turning radius, then I'd agree.

20 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

This has nothing to do w/what side is reinforced (or if no side is reinforced).

Turn bow or stern into a plane attack & take less damage...stay broadside & take more.

Any DD in the game can easily line up either their bow or stern against rocket planes by the time they pass & come back around...even the ones that aren't smart enough to turn off their AA & go undetected.

He explains it perfectly.  It isn't hard or rocket science.  The only time you will not be able to do this if for some reason you decide to stop your turn or stop altogether.

 

Edited by HeadSplit120

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7 minutes ago, HeadSplit120 said:

I can see that even before the release of the changes were already using the same excuse.  If you were talking about a BB or a cruiser with poor turning radius, then I'd be agree.

He explains it perfectly.  It isn't hard or rocket science.  The only time you will not be able to do this if for some reason you decide to stop your turn or stop altogether.

How is a reticle change going to magically change the fact that ships that don't have tight turning circles and quick rudder shift  will get crossed over to be hit on the weak side like they already are? On top of that there are also DD that are pretty big for a DD and slow with a sluggish turning circle. Will planes suddenly become slower and lose the ability to boost?

Edited by Vekta408

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4 hours ago, Vekta408 said:

How is a reticle change going to magically change the fact that ships that don't have tight turning circles and quick rudder shift  will get crossed over to be hit on the weak side like they already are? On top of that there are also DD that are pretty big for a DD and slow with a sluggish turning circle. Will planes suddenly become slower and lose the ability to boost?

Stop making excuses for stubborn ignorance.

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You change one thing, another problem creeps up. 

Remember there is also DD spotting by aircraft that is changing as well. Yes, they will be harder to hit...

Yet they will feel safe and tool into caps and get slaughtered. 

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4 hours ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

Stop making excuses for stubborn ignorance.

How is any of that ignorance if what I said actually happens in games seen live streamed, replays posted and in examples explaining why every "just dodge" and "huddle together for AA and "team work" isn't actually a "counter" to cv on the forums? Could be there is something to it since it's still being used to show repeatedly that CV apologizes are delusional.

Edited by Vekta408

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12 hours ago, Edgecase said:

The white outline is actually the starting point from which the reticle shrinks or grows depending on whether you hold your aim still. It's neither the smallest nor the largest the reticle can get.

Here are two superimposed images taken from the map view (hence the tiny resolution, sorry).

juNoMv0.png

The white reticle is the projection shown when flying around. The green reticle is the fully converged ellipse. You can see that it is both much smaller, but also has changed from a "wide" blob to one that is actually taller than it is wide. It didn't simply shrink. (I believe these particular images are Midway HVAR from the current patch 0.9.6.)

Ok, I see, thanks! So you mean the white outline is the initial reticle. Your first bullet point is "All of the reticles above are fully converged, i.e. the tightest they can possibly get." So basically you made drive-bys over a Shimakaze without clicking to start the attack process? Do you think it will be helpful to see the smallest green reticle too?

Thanks for the screenshot example! That makes more sense.

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27 minutes ago, henrychenhenry said:

Ok, I see, thanks! So you mean the white outline is the initial reticle. Your first bullet point is "All of the reticles above are fully converged, i.e. the tightest they can possibly get." So basically you made drive-bys over a Shimakaze without clicking to start the attack process? Do you think it will be helpful to see the smallest green reticle too?

Thanks for the screenshot example! That makes more sense.

All the green reticles in the screenshots are the tightest possible ones you can get. I pointed at a stationary Shimakaze in training room, clicked attack, and flew perfectly straight until the ellipse stopped shrinking, then took the screenshot as the reticle passed over the ship (that's why there are only a few seconds left before the attack times out in most of the pictures).

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