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bubbleboy264

WG please buff the Odin...

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I recently completed all of the free directives for the Odin and figured I should just buy it, since I would be getting a unique premium for a low price. I was well aware of the nerfs but still wanted it for the novelty  (I am not a whale/ship collector so this was unusual for me). I have been playing it for a bit and have done quite well, but I am very sad about how good this ship could have been. The HP nerf was absurd, even with your armor 52k health at tier 8 is just not enough. You simply do not have the survivability to truly brawl/push. You can still carry a flank and make big plays, but if you make even one mistake your health will melt instantly, and even if you do everything right you can still die easily due to simple bad luck. 

The guns are another case of what could have been. WG nerfed the reload and fuse time but gave slightly better secondaries in return, although that trade is not worth it at all as the secondaries are bad anyway (the pen/range simply can't make up for the crap accuracy). And you have to go full tank build because of the low health so the sec buffs don't matter anyway. The guns can still do well, especially against cruisers, and they also work well for me specifically as I enjoy the Scharnhorst-style low caliber cruiser killer guns at tier 8, but I can't help thinking about how much better these guns used to be.

The Odin can do very well if played correctly, but it still needs buffs. The original version with 62k health, 20 sec reload main guns and a low fuse time was perfectly fine and well-balanced. But the Odin isn't Russian, so it just had to be nerfed into mediocrity. This should be fixed. I would either return the ship to the original WIP version or I would buff it like this: 

- give the ship a superheal and warspite damage control, along with buffing the reload to 20 seconds. This keeps the unique low hp pool and play style but also gives it a lot more survivability such that the Odin can push in and brawl like it was meant to. The fuse time should also be lowered in this version but that might be too much. 

Whatever happens, the Odin has the potential to be a great ship, and it deserves buffs. I am enjoying playing it and love the idea of a tier 8 Scharnhorst, I just wish this ship could be allowed to shine by WG. It doesn't need to be OP or even great, just decent. That doesn't seem like too much to ask.

 

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Are we sailing the same ship?

Yeah, I agree with the "buffed Scharnhorst" description.  

Personally, I think the Odin is in a good place and just needs to be played well.  :-)

But, apparently I am a minority in this regard?

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6 minutes ago, bubbleboy264 said:

I recently completed all of the free directives for the Odin and figured I should just buy it, since I would be getting a unique premium for a low price. I was well aware of the nerfs but still wanted it for the novelty  (I am not a whale/ship collector so this was unusual for me). I have been playing it for a bit and have done quite well, but I am very sad about how good this ship could have been. The HP nerf was absurd, even with your armor 52k health at tier 8 is just not enough. You simply do not have the survivability to truly brawl/push. You can still carry a flank and make big plays, but if you make even one mistake your health will melt instantly, and even if you do everything right you can still die easily due to simple bad luck. 

The guns are another case of what could have been. WG nerfed the reload and fuse time but gave slightly better secondaries in return, although that trade is not worth it at all as the secondaries are bad anyway (the pen/range simply can't make up for the crap accuracy). And you have to go full tank build because of the low health so the sec buffs don't matter anyway. The guns can still do well, especially against cruisers, and they also work well for me specifically as I enjoy the Scharnhorst-style low caliber cruiser killer guns at tier 8, but I can't help thinking about how much better these guns used to be.

The Odin can do very well if played correctly, but it still needs buffs. The original version with 62k health, 20 sec reload main guns and a low fuse time was perfectly fine and well-balanced. But the Odin isn't Russian, so it just had to be nerfed into mediocrity. This should be fixed. I would either return the ship to the original WIP version or I would buff it like this: 

- give the ship a superheal and warspite damage control, along with buffing the reload to 20 seconds. This keeps the unique low hp pool and play style but also gives it a lot more survivability such that the Odin can push in and brawl like it was meant to. The fuse time should also be lowered in this version but that might be too much. 

Whatever happens, the Odin has the potential to be a great ship, and it deserves buffs. I am enjoying playing it and love the idea of a tier 8 Scharnhorst, I just wish this ship could be allowed to shine by WG. It doesn't need to be OP or even great, just decent. That doesn't seem like too much to ask.

 

play her like a heavycruiser

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Odin is currently 4th in WR and damage on NA server. Hard to make a case for a buff.

 Looks like the developers got the balancing right. Aside from Russian ships, they usually do.

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45 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Are we sailing the same ship?

Yeah, I agree with the "buffed Scharnhorst" description.  

Personally, I think the Odin is in a good place and just needs to be played well.  :-)

But, apparently I am a minority in this regard?

Who knows. I’ve never been any good with Scharnhorst.

Have Odin, but still haven’t seen fit to play it in Randoms.

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44 minutes ago, lordholland4293 said:

play her like a heavycruiser

Why if you want you a heavy cruiser than get a heavy cruiser . Why get a BB and be forced to play it like a heavy cruiser ?

 

34 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

Odin is currently 4th in WR and damage on NA server. Hard to make a case for a buff.

 Looks like the developers got the balancing right. Aside from Russian ships, they usually do.

Please barley anyone has the ship you cant pull out those stats this early .

Edited by clammboy
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Odin is.. a special beast. She has the capability to pull off amazing plays, the downside is that poor positioning hurts her hard. With your low calibre guns and low HP, if you don't position well you die quickly and deal little damage. Really, calling her a battleship is misleading. She's a superheavy cruiser and she needs to be played as one. I wouldn't call her bad by any means but I think she's kinda meh overall moreso down to the higher tier ships she faces. I still enjoy her though, for those rare times you can pull of something crazy. 

There was once I rushed down 2 DDs's seperate DDs, blindfiring them unsuccessfully but launching torpedoes from both sides 5km out, they focused hard on me and both ate my torps. 

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43 minutes ago, clammboy said:

Why if you want you a heavy cruiser than get a heavy cruiser . Why get a BB and be forced to play it like a heavy cruiser ?

 

Please barley anyone has the ship you cant pull out those stats this early .

Even if they fall somewhat it will just fall to the middle of the pack.

 

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1 hour ago, Taichunger said:

Odin is currently 4th in WR and damage on NA server. Hard to make a case for a buff.

 Looks like the developers got the balancing right. Aside from Russian ships, they usually do.

4th in WR and damage on the NA server period?  Or for it's tier?  Or for it's class?  I think that needs to be expanded upon.

Looking at WoW NA numbers, probably at tier 8 among battleships, which sounds less amazing than just saying 4th:

Win rate (4th of 24):

image.thumb.png.d79ef935405ffe26c83a323712737d38.png

Damage (4th of 24): 

image.thumb.png.d9baf6e22f3aa74e4b0561060ea79970.png

A couple other things to consider here:

  1. Alabama ST is a promotional premium and it places above the Odin in both categories.  Given that the Alabama ST is at the bottom of the active 21 tier 8 battleships in battles played at only 4% of the battles the Odin is in, you can probably throw it out of consideration and say the Odin is the 3rd best tier 8 battleship in win rate and damage.  So that certainly puts the Odin in an even better light.  However,
  2. Odin is 17th most played tier 8 battleship.  It's not even played half as much as the 16th most played tier 8 BB, the Vanguard.  It's played a little more than 10% of the 10th most played tier 8 BB, the Massachusetts B.  It's played less than 1% as much as the #1 most played ship, the North Carolina.

What's my point?  4th best isn't all it's cracked to be when you take into account tier, ship class, and sample size.  Given who has the Odin at this point (big spenders, try hard to maybe moderately try hard players), I think citing the Odin's position is irrelevant.  Way too early, far too small a sample size to really determine it's measure (under-performing, over-powered, or Goldilocks-just right) vs other ships.

 

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41 minutes ago, Altwar said:

4th in WR and damage on the NA server period?  Or for it's tier?  Or for it's class?  I think that needs to be expanded upon.

Looking at WoW NA numbers, probably at tier 8 among battleships, which sounds less amazing than just saying 4th:

Win rate (4th of 24):

image.thumb.png.d79ef935405ffe26c83a323712737d38.png

Damage (4th of 24): 

image.thumb.png.d9baf6e22f3aa74e4b0561060ea79970.png

A couple other things to consider here:

  1. Alabama ST is a promotional premium and it places above the Odin in both categories.  Given that the Alabama ST is at the bottom of the active 21 tier 8 battleships in battles played, you can probably throw it out of consideration and say the Odin is the 3rd best tier 8 battleship in win rate and damage.  So that certainly puts the Odin in an even better light.  However,
  2. Odin is 17th most tier 8 battleship.  It's not even played half as much as the 16th most played tier 8 BB, the Vanguard.  It's played a little more than 10% of the 10th most played tier 8 BB, the Massachusetts B.  It's played less than 1% as much as the #1 most played ship, the North Carolina.

What's my point?  4th best isn't all it's cracked to be when you take into account tier, ship class, and sample size.  Given who has the Odin at this point (big spenders, try hard to maybe moderately try hard players), I think citing the Odin's position is irrelevant.  Way too early, far too small a sample size to really determine it's measure (under-performing, over-powered, or Goldilocks-just right) vs other ships.

 

Sure. Like I said, if you want to make a case for a buff, it won't be easy.

Edited by Taichunger
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I mean yeah the health pool is low, but overall I haven't had any particular problem playing it, I just tend to play it more conservative than other BBs.

 

 

Edited by Taco_De_Moist

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Her ultra low health pool makes more sense when you look at it this way:

  • Bismarck = Defense/Utility
  • Tirpitz = Offense/Defense
  • Odin = Offense/Utility

The Odin can wrack up some damage numbers real quick.  Yeah, she's a bit more squishy, but she'll take everyone down with her.

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The word battlecruiser needs to be used.

Not because it is historically accurate in terms of the "BB-calibre guns for tier with cruiser-level armour" sense, but because it occupies that intermediate space between the genuine 8-inch-gunned heavy cruisers and the battleships.

Yes, Henri, Drake, Goliath and Cheshire have crept that heavy cruiser calibre boundary up, but they are exceptional. 12 inches (and 11 inches at Tier 7) is where "major calibre" really starts.

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu

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The OP buffs would be sweet. Unfortunately it might also result in the funnest BB in the game (horrible I know). In one on one matches I've felt just fine against Tirp and Bis. Its when other ships get involved things go south. I don't have a lot of games in her yet, but I do feel like you need to treat her a bit like a german heavy cruiser. Mid to long range early and move in late game or when you have single targets available. You just can not tank damage like you can in a tier viii-x german bb. 

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I dunno, it feels like it needs something. It's early yet, so maybe I just need more reps with her, but the Agir is sooo much better.

Right now the Odin just feels like a Tirpitz that can't pen much in addition to not being able to hit things reliably...

Edited by Telastyn

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Odin needs a BUFF? NO.. NO... HECK NO... NO..NO! That ship is OP as it is.  It took me a while to burn her and AP the Heck out of her with my MASS and MASS B. Even with the help of my Team mates.

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I wonder if the Odin would have worked better if they had just made her a tier 8 large cruiser than a tier 8 BB.

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5 hours ago, clammboy said:

Why if you want you a heavy cruiser than get a heavy cruiser . Why get a BB and be forced to play it like a heavy cruiser ?

Different ships are different.  Some require a different playstyle to take advantage of their strengths while negating their weaknesses.

Just as an example... would you want to try and brawl in a Conqueror?  You can but I wouldn't advise it.

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The guns are garbage and the secondaries are forgettable...that’s not “in a good place.”

It’s way to squishy and overall weak.

Guns: Poor

HE: Trash

AP: Poor

Torpedo angles: Poor

HP: Poor

Secondaries: Fair

Handling: Fair

Speed: Fair

AA: Fair

Armor: Good

Soooooo you’re just a piñata with low HP a terrible torpedo belt and minimal redeeming qualities.

Edited by LastSamurai714
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7 hours ago, Ranari said:

Her ultra low health pool makes more sense when you look at it this way:

  • Bismarck = Defense/Utility
  • Tirpitz = Offense/Defense
  • Odin = Offense/Utility

The Odin can wrack up some damage numbers real quick.  Yeah, she's a bit more squishy, but she'll take everyone down with her.

By take everyone down with her you mean 1-3k damage volleys on full broadside battleships sun 10km right?

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11 hours ago, bubbleboy264 said:

I recently completed all of the free directives for the Odin and figured I should just buy it, since I would be getting a unique premium for a low price... the Odin has the potential to be a great ship, and it deserves buffs. 

FWIW, I too wish the Odin got some buffs. Try as I might, I have decided I don't like her. And I think her problems are going to get worse as more players realize how easy it is to burn her down and how fragile she is to torps. With that said, I think that the biggest problem with the Odin is she isn't anywhere like the ship I had hoped she would be. She (as others have mentioned,) needs to be played like a cruiser. She's fragile. Get a fire or two on her and forget it. She can NOT bully push nose in like most BBs can... at least not until very late in the game. The armor is great in only one situation, well angled and up close. Otherwise forget it. 

So, I find I have to play her extremely carefully, downright scared. The main guns suuuuuuuck. The secondaries are weird - so inaccurate that they're all about RNG (yes I have the Manual secondaries on her, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to drop it.) The torps are good, the AA is respectable (esp with torp plane,) but even the hydro is disappointingly short in duration. 

With all that said, in the right situation she's a monster. Late game when you're not at risk of getting wasted from some long range side shot or burned up instantly by some dakka-dakka, Odin can be stellar. But waiting most of a match and hoping to get some lucky damage in while hiding from so many other ships that can just wreck you... it means the Odin just ain't a lot of fun. And as more learn the great vulnerability she has, and burn her and torp her into the ground, it will only get worse. I had hoped for a German style Mass. I figured getting the torps & hydro meant other sacrifices - but the sacrifices are simply far too great to make it worthwhile. Maybe it is ultimate a "you get what you pay for" kind of thing. *shrug*

Anyway, that's my whine/rant.

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while it has its good points like concealment and good turning it does feel weak, low health and soft belt armor are a horrible combo on a ship that requires to show some side to make use of its secondary guns and torpedos, the guns use to be good sporting decent accuracy, reload and a short fuse but then they got  the reload and fuse time nerfed and they become mediocre at best.

at least bring back the short fuse time.

 

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14 hours ago, bubbleboy264 said:

The Odin can do very well if played correctly, but it still needs buffs. The original version with 62k health, 20 sec reload main guns and a low fuse time was perfectly fine and well-balanced.

Original test version was very OP

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Only buff it actually would “need” is matching the pen values to Agir.  This would make Odin more playable by the masses but... 

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12 hours ago, Taco_De_Moist said:

I mean yeah the health pool is low, but overall I haven't had any particular problem playing it, I just tend to play it more conservative than other BBs.

 

 

I can see why the HP was nerfed on the thing, although they went too far. Its armor scheme is far tougher than Scharnhorst and it's a smaller target than the Bismarck class.

It could do with other aspects being buffed to make it more comforable. Main guns are the obvious choice, and would also raise the skill floor of the ship.

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