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Skyfaller

CVs should not be allowed in Ranked

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There is no unit more pivotal than a carrier in a battle. It holds enormous leverage on the outcome of the battle. 

This becomes a problem in ranked battles where all it takes is one dum-dum in a CV to ruin the entire team's chances to win the battle. 

 

For example, today I had a cv-less battle in which a USN cruiser just parked itself next to an island inside a cap that was already taken and went AFK. This happened at the start of the battle. The team's chances to win were diminished because of that AFK'r but we did win in the end. The battle after that, we had a strong team and a CV ... but this CV literally ignored the ONE enemy DD the entire map, even when he was asked repeatedly by the team to go after it (and it was solo on a flank). That CV ignored it and just kept HE bombing a single BB...not even bothering to scout or spot the opposing team en-route...  and losing his planes. By mid-battle we had lost 2 BBs to that DD and our CV ran out of planes. 

CVs should not be allowed in ranked. If you absolutely must include them, then make it a full cv vs cv battle... how fun would it be to ranked a 7cv vs 7cv battle huh? 

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Guess the cruisers and DDs were too busy to spot and shoot that DD which is part of their roles.

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one dd per side means they can be on opposite sides of map you know. 

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Even worse, crap CV players in T8 Ranked.

I played 1 Ranked game this morning and the Lexington on my team had <80 CV games total, 44 in the Lexington with a WR of 38% and an average damage

that had to be measured in units of "hurt feelings". I don't have fantastic stats in CVs, but then again, I'm not PLAYING THEM IN T8 RANKED. 

They had no map awareness, continued suicide runs into masses of enemy reds and I think I saw them drop 2 fighters the whole round, meanwhile the weak

side of 1 CL and 1 BB got rekt by enemy planes. 

 

/end rant

 

Edited by SonicAnatidae
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32 minutes ago, Skyfaller said:

There is no unit more pivotal than a carrier in a battle. It holds enormous leverage on the outcome of the battle. 

No.

remove CV and place one DD per team and the first team to lose its DD lose the game.

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7 minutes ago, Y_Nagato said:

No.

remove CV and place one DD per team and the first team to lose its DD lose the game.

Hardly. If that was the case then youd've seen imbalance issues in ranked and random games for years now when this happened.

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1 hour ago, Skyfaller said:

Hardly. If that was the case then youd've seen imbalance issues in ranked and random games for years now when this happened.

You did see that imbalance.  DDs are just as bad, perhaps worse, as CVs in terms of a unicum destroying match balance in a single ship.

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On 7/23/2020 at 1:07 PM, RedSeaBear said:

[Edited]

Aww, Red, I will miss your joyful countenance in Ranked this season.

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13 minutes ago, Helstrem said:

You did see that imbalance.  DDs are just as bad, perhaps worse, as CVs in terms of a unicum destroying match balance in a single ship.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see this as factual. DDs don't sweep the entire map, spotting every ship like CVs do; DDs can't hover close yet be out of range of your guns like CV planes do while they spot you; and most important, DDs don't heal themselves throughout the match like CV planes do. While a unicum player can influence any match in any ship, no ship in the game wields the influence of a CV, which is why WG has gone to such great lengths to insure neither team loses one during a match, and, ironically, is the biggest indicator that the entire ship type is horribly unbalanced and totally OP.

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1 hour ago, Vector03 said:

Remove CVs, a simple and elegant solution™.

Let's listen to this guy!

He's got over a thousand posts on this forum!

And zero battles.  And least, none he is willing to admit to his doting and brainwashed public.

 

No, I don't think so.  Show up or ship out.

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2 minutes ago, Umikami said:

I'm sorry, but I just don't see this as factual. DDs don't sweep the entire map, spotting every ship like CVs do; DDs can't hover close yet be out of range of your guns like CV planes do while they spot you; and most important, DDs don't heal themselves throughout the match like CV planes do. While a unicum player can influence any match in any ship, no ship in the game wields the influence of a CV, which is why WG has gone to such great lengths to insure neither team loses one during a match, and, ironically, is the biggest indicator that the entire ship type is horribly unbalanced and totally OP.

You know, WG did not invent CVs.  They actually do exist.  And they existed at the time period WoWs is simulating.  So there is reason for them, the CVs, to be there.

Don't want planes in your naval game?  Why, there are a host of pre-airplane games for you to pursue.  Have at it.

Myself, I hate missiles.  The whole modern warfare game bit with missiles flying about from long range and never seeing your opponent just isn't my style.  So I don't play such games.

Lots of individual choices to be made.

CVs are present in the time period of WoWs.  WG has already dumbed them down quite a bit since the RTS days of fighter sweeps.  Are they OP?  Oh heck no.  Can they influence a battle?  Yes, as they should and as they did in WW2.

The good news is that for every CV played in a game there is an opponent CV to counter.  So the teams are even in ship types.

Now, if you start moaning that one CV player is good and the other not so good...your argument won't sway me as that happens with EVERY ship type.  A very good player influences the game no matter what ship type he plays.

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2 hours ago, Skyfaller said:

There is no unit more pivotal than a carrier in a battle. It holds enormous leverage on the outcome of the battle. 

This becomes a problem in ranked battles where all it takes is one dum-dum in a CV to ruin the entire team's chances to win the battle. 

 

For example, today I had a cv-less battle in which a USN cruiser just parked itself next to an island inside a cap that was already taken and went AFK. This happened at the start of the battle. The team's chances to win were diminished because of that AFK'r but we did win in the end. The battle after that, we had a strong team and a CV ... but this CV literally ignored the ONE enemy DD the entire map, even when he was asked repeatedly by the team to go after it (and it was solo on a flank). That CV ignored it and just kept HE bombing a single BB...not even bothering to scout or spot the opposing team en-route...  and losing his planes. By mid-battle we had lost 2 BBs to that DD and our CV ran out of planes. 

CVs should not be allowed in ranked. If you absolutely must include them, then make it a full cv vs cv battle... how fun would it be to ranked a 7cv vs 7cv battle huh? 

That's is a case of a selfish farming player.

Henri players, high DPM cruisers, French BBs. Exhibit A, B, and C.

Get players to stop farming. Good luck.

Don't pigeon hole CV players as farmers.

Next you will want them to have their own neighborhoods, restrooms, wear armbands showing CV, etc.

Sorry, CV players are a typically smart.

You just had a jerk on your team.

Every ship type is full of jerks.

Why there jerky clans too.

Finding a nice CV player is easy. Recruit one and div.

Nothing beats close air support.

Edited by SteelRain_Rifleman
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16 minutes ago, Sabene said:

“Myself, I hate missiles.  The whole modern warfare game bit with missiles flying about from long range and never seeing your opponent just isn't my style.  So I don't play such games.“

Not arguing for or against CV’s in any part of the game but doesn’t some of what you say here sound a bit like the perception of CV’s? A bit ironic that?

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50 minutes ago, Umikami said:

I'm sorry, but I just don't see this as factual. DDs don't sweep the entire map, spotting every ship like CVs do; DDs can't hover close yet be out of range of your guns like CV planes do while they spot you; and most important, DDs don't heal themselves throughout the match like CV planes do. While a unicum player can influence any match in any ship, no ship in the game wields the influence of a CV, which is why WG has gone to such great lengths to insure neither team loses one during a match, and, ironically, is the biggest indicator that the entire ship type is horribly unbalanced and totally OP.

You don't need to sweep the whole map.  Just be where it actually matters and control vision there and single DD can do just that, particularly after they've killed the opposition's DD.  Healing is irrelevant if you don't take damage.  Take out CVs and the DD situation will return.

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3 hours ago, SonicAnatidae said:

Even worse, crap CV players in T8 Ranked.

I played 1 Ranked game this morning and the Lexington on my team had <80 CV games total, 44 in the Lexington with a WR of 38% and an average damage

that had to be measured in units of "hurt feelings". I don't have fantastic stats in CVs, but then again, I'm not PLAYING THEM IN T8 RANKED. 

They had no map awareness, continued suicide runs into masses of enemy reds and I think I saw them drop 2 fighters the whole round, meanwhile the weak

side of 1 CL and 1 BB got rekt by enemy planes. 

 

/end rant

 

That can be said of any ship in ranked, drive something you know.

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5 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

That can be said of any ship in ranked, drive something you know.

This^

You will always have players in competitive that have no idea how to play.

It's a given. Don't expect to win all the time if you play alone.

You can mitigate some of that by forming a division.

A Lone Ranger still had a Tonto and the Power Rangers never lose unless you have Black Ranger getting all Emo and stuff.

Form a team. Practice together. Go in with a plan. The average WG player goes in with a plan. The average clever CV player definitely has a plan. He may not tell you if not in your division though. It's need to know. Secret...shhhh.

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if this would have been a 3 vs 3 T9 ranked battle we wouldn't be having this conversation....

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4 hours ago, Skyfaller said:

There is no unit more pivotal than a carrier in a battle. It holds enormous leverage on the outcome of the battle. 

This becomes a problem in ranked battles where all it takes is one dum-dum in a CV to ruin the entire team's chances to win the battle. 

 

For example, today I had a cv-less battle in which a USN cruiser just parked itself next to an island inside a cap that was already taken and went AFK. This happened at the start of the battle. The team's chances to win were diminished because of that AFK'r but we did win in the end. The battle after that, we had a strong team and a CV ... but this CV literally ignored the ONE enemy DD the entire map, even when he was asked repeatedly by the team to go after it (and it was solo on a flank). That CV ignored it and just kept HE bombing a single BB...not even bothering to scout or spot the opposing team en-route...  and losing his planes. By mid-battle we had lost 2 BBs to that DD and our CV ran out of planes. 

CVs should not be allowed in ranked. If you absolutely must include them, then make it a full cv vs cv battle... how fun would it be to ranked a 7cv vs 7cv battle huh? 

7 CV's versus 7 CV's ???  I'm there!  :-D

Teams can pull a victory from even the mess I left a team in,  earlier today.  
20200723_150923_PJSA518-Kaga_45_Zigzag.wowsreplay

I apologized for my autopilot somehow getting wonked, to everyone on both teams, during the game.  People were pretty good and understanding about it and we treated it as entertainment.
And then I posted about it later, in the Ranked Battles topic.

Point is, there are no guarantees.  You and everyone else shows up and life may be wonderful, or it could be a surprise or it could be bitter experience.  It is a random group of people who chose to be there.
Generally speaking, people try to bring their "A-game" to ranked battles, myself included.  And I still have plenty to learn (which is why I make the effort to learn from the best, so to speak). 

Stuff happens, though.  :-D

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3 hours ago, Sabene said:

You know, WG did not invent CVs.  They actually do exist.  And they existed at the time period WoWs is simulating.  So there is reason for them, the CVs, to be there.

This is a very fallacious string of logic, because if we follow it to the end we should also have a myriad of merchant ships, DEs, Frigates, Corvettes, Etc. And we could have all those things, so long as they were balanced, which, right now, CVs are not. When the game takes extra precautions to insure that one type of ship isn't lost during battle because losing it would put the team that lost it t a severe disadvantage, that ship is OP and not balanced properly within the game.

3 hours ago, Sabene said:

CVs are present in the time period of WoWs.  WG has already dumbed them down quite a bit since the RTS days of fighter sweeps.  Are they OP?  Oh heck no.  Can they influence a battle?  Yes, as they should and as they did in WW2.

See, this is a huge part of the problem; CVs are totally OP, and haven't been nearly "dumbed down" to a point where they are even near to having equal capabilities with other ships in the game. This isn't WW2, this is an arcade game where everyone, playing every ship, is supposed to have an equal chance, and with CVs the way they are now everyone doesn't.

3 hours ago, Sabene said:

Now, if you start moaning that one CV player is good and the other not so good...your argument won't sway me as that happens with EVERY ship type.

Well I won't have to make that argument, because WG already made it for me. You're right when you say that inequalities in the skill levels of Captains happens to every type of ship, and at every tier. What hasn't happened to every ship type is WG, on it's own and without a request on the part of the playing public, decided that one team losing their CV was too imbalanced, so they gave CVs all kings of special mechanics so they could avoid being sunk. Special fire mechanics; special flooding mechanics, their own AA fighters to keep enemy planes away. And since most CV deaths were at the hands of DDs, they introduced rockets so DDs wouldn't be able to reach a CV to sink it. No other ship type gets that level of protection. The ship needing that protection shows it is OP and unbalanced; the ship getting that level of protection makes it OP and unbalanced.

3 hours ago, Helstrem said:

You don't need to sweep the whole map.  Just be where it actually matters and control vision there and single DD can do just that, particularly after they've killed the opposition's DD.  Healing is irrelevant if you don't take damage.  Take out CVs and the DD situation will return.

Not in my opinion, as DDs can control only a small portion of any map, where CVs can, by spotting and using fast attack aircraft, cover the entire map. It's totally a matter of degree.

You can argue all you want, but no one is giving any other ship type special mechanics so they aren't sunk, nor making it harder for any type of surface ship to engage any other type of surface ship; but CVs have to have it, because losing one just cannot be overcome, in the opinion of the game developers. Yeah, OP!

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5 hours ago, Bravo4zero said:

Not arguing for or against CV’s in any part of the game but doesn’t some of what you say here sound a bit like the perception of CV’s? A bit ironic that?

Ironic?

Possibly.

But looking at the historical time period that WoWs is based on ....CVs are valid.  They just are.  Love 'em, or hate 'em,  they were a huge part of the naval history of the time our game is based on.

So if you play the game because you love naval history or because you love the historical time period then CVs should be present.

WoWs is a historical simulation.  At least, that is its origins.  

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48 minutes ago, Sabene said:

But  looking at the historical time period that WoWs is based on ....CVs are valid.  They just are.  Love 'em, or hate 'em,  they were a huge part of the naval history of the time our game is based on.

So if you play the game because you love naval history or because you love the historical time period then CVs should be present.

Can’t argue with you there mate!

At the end of the day we have the choice to play or not to play. Asyou say “love em or hate em” and I’m still clicking that battle button even though I’ll never be waving flags and throwing a ticka-tape parade for them :cap_like:

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3 hours ago, Sabene said:

WoWs is a historical simulation.

This statement is very much not true. Because in real life, that historical thing you're using as the basis for your pro-CV argument ....

DDs did not carry unlimited torps.

CVs did not regenerate their own aircraft eternally.

BBs did not heal themselves while at sea, and especially not while in combat.

Radar and Hydro-acoustic search did not see through islands. 

Ships did not accelerate to top speed in under 30 seconds, nor come to a complete stop in the same amount of time.

Anti-aircraft fire was not guided by sectors, nor did it have a length of time duration.

There was no "Damage Saturation" for any ship.

There are probably a hundred or so more historical inaccuracies anyone with time could list, but the fact is WG only pays attention to historical accuracy when they can make a dollar off of it; if they can't then it goes out the door faster than yesterdays trash. This is NOT a historical simulation; it's an ARCADE GAME, and as such requires that all ships within the framework of the game be balanced or the game just isn't fair and equitable to everyone who plays it. 

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13 hours ago, Sabene said:

You know, WG did not invent CVs.  They actually do exist.  And they existed at the time period WoWs is simulating.  So there is reason for them, the CVs, to be there.

Don't want planes in your naval game?  Why, there are a host of pre-airplane games for you to pursue.  Have at it.

Myself, I hate missiles.  The whole modern warfare game bit with missiles flying about from long range and never seeing your opponent just isn't my style.  So I don't play such games.

Lots of individual choices to be made.

CVs are present in the time period of WoWs.  WG has already dumbed them down quite a bit since the RTS days of fighter sweeps.  Are they OP?  Oh heck no.  Can they influence a battle?  Yes, as they should and as they did in WW2.

The good news is that for every CV played in a game there is an opponent CV to counter.  So the teams are even in ship types.

Now, if you start moaning that one CV player is good and the other not so good...your argument won't sway me as that happens with EVERY ship type.  A very good player influences the game no matter what ship type he plays.

:cap_like:

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@Umikami You be you.  I’ll be me.  We can disagree.  I’m okay with that.  ;-)

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