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soupflakes

USN BB question

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Hey all. Not trying to start a fight or complain. Just want to see if I'm maybe missing something or if there is anyone else experiencing this. 

I'm by all means a casual player. That being said I would say I'm decent at the game, but I understand the mechanics somewhat. I love the american BBs. Bama and Massey are my favorite. However, I keep getting wildly inconsistent results with their AP. 

Heres my issue. At high tiers USN has some of the slowest muzzle velocity and smaller shells for BBs. But yet, at medium to close ranges, where I would think that combo would be absolutely lethal, I'm overpenning the crap out of broad siding targets. Now I understand, but dont agree with, overpenning light broadside cruisers, but when I'm up against a stalingrad, or a musical, or alaska, puerto Rico's, etc, even happens a lot with Baltimore's and such, its overpen city.  Even BBs, way too many overpens. 9 shells, 7 hit, and 7 overpens, right through the citadel area.

The other day was just playing, caught a broadside hipper 4k away with his pants so far down he tripped over them right into an island. 4km. Broadside.  9 shells shot, 9 hit, 1 citadel, 8 overpens.   Guy should have been deleted. 

My main issue is it makes me wonder what's the use of getting more powerful guns? If you're just going to overpen em?

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Too much power with normal fuses means the fuse doesn't have the time to go off inside the target ship at close range. These guns work best between 6 and 12 km.

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Hmm

It seems that there appears to be a lack of knowledge pertaining to AP Shell Penetration and fuse timers. Yes, the USN Battleships have super slow shells, but unlike the British Battleships, which have shortened fuses that allow them to smash open cruisers at close to medium ranges, the USN Battleships have a standard 0.033 second delay on their fuse timers. This means that there is a longer delay between the shell actually fusing upon hitting the armor and actually arming and blowing the crap out of enemy ships.

As for the Targets

Stalingrad - The citadel is quite literally the size of the HMS Minotaur, and has enough armor to arm USN Battleship AP. You are probably aiming too high here, so shift your aim lower. Also, try and aim under the turrets.

Musical? - I'm going to assume you mean Musashi. Aim at the waterline underneath the funnel or, if the Musashi / Yamato is angled against you, aim underneath the A and B turrets, right at the "cheek" area. ( Oh my, how Lewd )

Alaska - Aim underneath the turrets or the funnel here as well, but do it at longer ranges. Alaska is a big target, but it is quite slim.

Puerto Rico - This is not your fault. PR has a troll armor scheme which layers a 4.7" (114mm) armor deck over the citadel, which cosplays as the the citadel deck, but is actually a part of the casemate armor. Try and aim at the waterline and go for the super juicy penetrations instead. 

Baltimore - Balti is relatively thinly armored and is super narrow. Go for the citadels at ranges between 10-12 kilometres for the best results.

"Other Battleships" - If you are getting overpens here, it's probably the French. French Battleships from Tier VIII and above have this weird void armor that causes battleship caliber shells to overpen and cruiser caliber shells to disappear entirely. Aim at the super-squishy turrets or smash them with HE shells.

Admiral Hipper - Hipper has a turtleback armor scheme, but it's the kind where it just causes overpenetrations instead of mitigating citadels for mere penetrations. If you got a citadel, then it's because a shell hit the internal barbette armor and exploded there.

 

-Shrayes

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Thanks. I know it's an arcade game. But I guess in my mind even if it doesnt arm an ap blowing an 18 plus inch whole through the citadel should cause more damage than hitting a bathroom in the superstructure. Maybe if there was a "citadel overpen" that does more damage than an overpen, but less than a citadel?  

Just a thought. 

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14 minutes ago, soupflakes said:

if it doesnt arm an ap blowing an 18 plus inch whole through the citadel

Oh it arms. The fuse just takes too long to burn through and the shell's out the other end before it goes *pop*.

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Quote

Just want to see if I'm maybe missing something or if there is anyone else experiencing this.

I played a lot of operations in a 7 man division. We have some ops down so well our more moves are almost choreographed.  At the beginning of Narai there are 3 ships that appear from behind an island at the start.

Using the same ship, firing from the same location, at the same range, at the same ship the results vary from one extreme of doing no or little damage to deleting the enemy ship.

This is as close to a controlled test as we can get in this game.

While learning how the mechanic work and how to use them to your advantage is important but do expect some weirdness.

I think the weirdness more or less evens out as I have received a citadel for having a single shell hit the radar mast. No other hits were recorded.

 

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At long range, I usually shoot at enemy BBs which are usually too slow to dodge my slow shells.

If an enemy CL/CA is distracted and maintains a steady course, I take advantage of their ignorance and prioritize them over BBs.

If a DD pops smoke, it's almost certainly decelerating, unless it's a Haida. I blap them quickly before they disappear. It doesn't matter if I have HE or AP loaded. Any damage to a DD is worth it.  

At short range, I shoot at the most broadside target near the waterline to get citadels. This seems to work for most ships except Russian BBs which have OP armor layout.

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30 minutes ago, Whitebuster said:

 

This seems to work for most ships except Russian BBs which have OP armor layout.

The Soviets have pretty big citadels when they show you broadside. Try to force them into showing you that broadside through team work.

If that fails, open Surface Vessel Fire Starting Procedure (OPNAVINST 1940.1HE) and begin at step Alpha-One: Load HE Shells. 

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While citadel overpens do exist, particularly against the lightly armored CLs that's more or less the only time you'll be seeing them.

A while back I spent a few hours in a training room with Roma to find out how common citadel overpens were and it turns out that even a perfectly broadside DM eats citadel pens at 2.5km.  While it's possible that the slower USN shells retain more velocity after the initial impact I think it's unlikely that you'll be getting citadel overpens at range.  What's most likely happening is you're either hitting ships with sunken citadels or simply aiming too high and hitting ship plating instead.

On the other hand, I did find that Roma would overpen the citadel of a broadside Myoko up to ~8km (and possibly more) so when you're fighting lower tier ships, or any ship with only ~120mm belt armor, you should either aim slightly below the water line or wait until they're angled slightly before firing.

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20 minutes ago, Roken1 said:

The Soviets have pretty big citadels when they show you broadside. Try to force them into showing you that broadside through team work.

If that fails, open Surface Vessel Fire Starting Procedure (OPNAVINST 1940.1HE) and begin at step Alpha-One: Load HE Shells. 

I once hit a Kremlin almost perpendicularly on its broadside near the waterline with my Alaska's 305mm AP shells at point-blank range. All shells bounced.

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1 hour ago, Whitebuster said:

At short range, I shoot at the most broadside target near the waterline to get citadels. This seems to work for most ships except Russian BBs which have OP armor layout.

It's not OP, except in the case of Sinop, where she is too well protected for her tier when it comes to BB fire. This is Kremlin:

shot-20_07.23_13_55.25-0465.thumb.jpg.31870f584092985b75ab362f313f8ec4.jpg

I left the torpedo protection plating on. A lot of people aim too low, pierce the torp protection plating below the top of the T citadel, and then get crappy pens or shatters/bounces. The overall thickness of the actual citadel belt part is similar to Yamato's, with just 20mm more around the turrets. With some angling Yamato usually bounces shots at long/mid-ranges, unless they get lucky enough to hit the cheek areas. Kreml doesn't have that weakness but can't play as far back as Yamato can anyway. The other VMF BBs besides Sinop really aren't a problem - none of them are even as well protected as Kremlin.

Edited by MnemonScarlet
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25 minutes ago, Whitebuster said:

I once hit a Kremlin almost perpendicularly on its broadside near the waterline with my Alaska's 305mm AP shells at point-blank range. All shells bounced.

Scarlet has a good demonstration of why this happened. (Look above)

 

Also anything against Kremlin should probably just burn it down with nonstop HE. More than one Kremlin captain was executed by the NKVD solely because they've managed to lose too much health to a few shipboard fires. Comrade Joe won't ever accept that as a weakness in design, but a weakness in the character of the crew for not fighting hard enough while on fire. 

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1 minute ago, Roken1 said:

Scarlet has a good demonstration of why this happened.

 

Also anything against Kremlin should probably just burn it down with nonstop HE. More than one Kremlin captain was executed by the NKVD solely because they've managed to lose too much health to a few shipboard fires. Comrade Joe won't ever accept that as a weakness in design, but a weakness in the character of the crew for not fighting hard enough while on fire. 

Good point. I'll keep that in mind and aim higher.

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41 minutes ago, Whitebuster said:

Good point. I'll keep that in mind and aim higher.

My advice for the AP is take your Alaska into a training room filled with inactive Kremlin bots. You can test the ranges and angles that you can get cit hits on her that way.

Should note that even Stalingrad and Kronshtadt with their BB levels of pen have issues citting Kremlin until they get close ish as well, her armor scheme is pretty good. It's a bit better than Yamato's, discounting the cheek weakness, but since Kremlin is expected to fight closer in more she needs that kind of setup.

And yeah, if nothing else works, just burn VMF BBs. If they position too boldly early match and use most of their DCPs up, they will not enjoy the later stages of the match.

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