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VonSchoenvorts

Fire alarm

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Okay this is probably beating a dead horse but something needs to be done about fires. I may not have a degree in naval history but I do not believe any combat ship ever had its decks soaked in gasoline and stacked with kindling. There is no reason a light cruiser or destroyer should be able to inflict so much damage on a BB with just its guns. I think WG really needs to buff the fire chance and reduce the amount of time they burn. At the very least I think that the repair party should also extinguish fires, that would go a long way in making the game a lot better. That's my two cents on the fire situation.

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29 minutes ago, VonSchoenvorts said:

There is no reason a light cruiser or destroyer should be able to inflict so much damage on a BB with just its guns.

This is an arcade game, not a real-life combat simulator. This is how WG chose to balance BBs against cruisers.

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8 minutes ago, Umikami said:

This is an arcade game

Next thing you know, someone might notice that in WWII there weren't forcefields that would prevent ships from leaving a small area, instantly stopping a giant battleship in its tracks without causing any damage.

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If you are on fire a lot it might have more to do with your positioning. 

Fire is more psychological than it is damaging. As a BB main, let one burn if you are under fire. Only DC when you have two or more.

I find getting caught in a bad position to be the leading reason i die to fire in this game.

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42 minutes ago, VonSchoenvorts said:

Okay this is probably beating a dead horse but something needs to be done about fires. I may not have a degree in naval history but I do not believe any combat ship ever had its decks soaked in gasoline and stacked with kindling. There is no reason a light cruiser or destroyer should be able to inflict so much damage on a BB with just its guns. I think WG really needs to buff the fire chance and reduce the amount of time they burn. At the very least I think that the repair party should also extinguish fires, that would go a long way in making the game a lot better. That's my two cents on the fire situation.

Unfortunately you're wrong on the history part. Many examples of light ships torching the upperworks of a heavy ship, sometimes rendering them combat ineffective. Best example is Leyte Gulf, IJN force of CAs and BBs jumped a group of CVEs escorted by DDs and DEs. Several of the CAs suffered heavy damage from the constant pelting of whatever the hell the 5in gunners on the US ships could load. At least one CA was recorded as being ablaze from stem to stern, and being unable to maintain fire as a result. Chances are they won't sink, but there's not going to be a whole lot left topside. In the night fighting around Guadacanal the USN CLs showed that at point-blank range even BBs don't want to be on the receiving end of 6in rapid fire (the USN CLs proved to be absolutely vicious in any engagement TBH). Finally it's thought a 5in shell, possibly from a CVE, was what started a fire on a IJN CA that ended up setting off the ships own torpedos (turns out LOX is flammable!), resulting in an explosion that crippled the ship. Also, ships carry plenty of flammable material, they're covered with AA guns which all have ammo, DDs have depth charges laying around, aircraft hangers are just bombs waiting to go off, and boats other loose gear topside tends to burn quite well. And then there's any torpedoes you might have laying around. Not to mention the literal tons of high explosive in the magazines (just ask the Royal Navy's Battle Cruisers, oh wait...). And the ships run on fuel oil... So fires are going to do plenty of damage, and there's plenty of explosives around so that if you don't get it put out sharpish there's likely going to be some rather impressive consequences. All in all, fire damage is quite realistic.

And even if it wasn't small caliber guns need some ability to do damage. As long as you manage your DC and repair properly fires shouldn't be a problem for a BB anyway, unless you've put yourself in a position you can't get out of. In which case fire damage isn't your first problem.

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Thought this post was about the actual Fire Alarm...

...an unnecessary emersive element I LOATHE with an intensity not known since that of the citadel sound back in 2016.

We're talking tourettes inducing hatered here. :Smile_izmena:

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2 hours ago, VonSchoenvorts said:

I may not have a degree in naval history but I do not believe any combat ship ever had its decks soaked in gasoline and stacked with kindling.

Perhaps not soaked in gasoline but there are a lot of unprotected things on a warship that burn just fine. There is cabling on your ship, there is furniture, there is a wooden deck, ready use ammunition close to auxiliary weaponry, floatplanes and usually some aviation fuel close by or if applicable torpedoes.

Or to put it in the words of the Handbook for Damage Control from 1945:

 

Quote

It has been demonstrated repeatedly that steel ships can become floating furnaces, fed by fuel consisting of combustible materials carried aboard them. Some of our ships have become blazing infernos which had to be abandoned or (later) sunk by our own forces because fires got out of control and prevented the effective application of damage-control measures.

 

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3 hours ago, VonSchoenvorts said:

Okay this is probably beating a dead horse but something needs to be done about fires. I may not have a degree in naval history but I do not believe any combat ship ever had its decks soaked in gasoline and stacked with kindling. There is no reason a light cruiser or destroyer should be able to inflict so much damage on a BB with just its guns. I think WG really needs to buff the fire chance and reduce the amount of time they burn. At the very least I think that the repair party should also extinguish fires, that would go a long way in making the game a lot better. That's my two cents on the fire situation.

Oh, you are absolutely correct. But being a balanced video game and to give little botes a sporting chance, fires are the go to for the wee botes.

Otherwise, a Yammy fart sinks a DD.

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2 hours ago, VonSchoenvorts said:

Umikamicruisers shouldn't be balanced with battleships.

Well, that is certainly an opinion; thank you for sharing!

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I thought this was going to be about the Ovechkin US Captain and the "Fire Alarm" voiceover. It's the only voicover in the game I just can't handle. I actually put him in reserve for awhile just because of that one voiceover. Ended up bringing him back when I got Saipan since CVs don't usually catch fire. 

Edited by mrieder79

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7 hours ago, VonSchoenvorts said:

 There is no reason a light cruiser or destroyer should be able to inflict so much damage on a BB with just its guns. 

yeah, IJN Hiei would like to disagree with you in regards to cruisers and destroyers damaging BBs.

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9 hours ago, AJTP89 said:

Also, ships carry plenty of flammable material, they're covered with AA guns which all have ammo, DDs have depth charges laying around, aircraft hangers are just bombs waiting to go off, and boats other loose gear topside tends to burn quite well. And then there's any torpedoes you might have laying around. Not to mention the literal tons of high explosive in the magazines (just ask the Royal Navy's Battle Cruisers, oh wait...). And the ships run on fuel oil... So fires are going to do plenty of damage, and there's plenty of explosives around so that if you don't get it put out sharpish there's likely going to be some rather impressive consequences. All in all, fire damage is quite realistic.

Not only that, but the steel itself was coated in layers of flammable paint.

Ropes, lifeboats, wiring insulation, also contribute fuel.

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7 hours ago, Umikami said:

Well, that is certainly an opinion; thank you for sharing!

Are you mellowing?

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24 minutes ago, HamAndCheez said:

I'm surprised no one brought up the USS Bonhomme Richard fire that just happened:

21 injured in fire aboard ship at Naval Base San Diego | KSTP.com

30941788-8538367-image-a-14_1595165223114.jpg

nzrdgvbdwfc4henmkrfr7deevq.jpg

 

Kind of sad to see how bad the Navy's gotten. WWII we had CVs take massive hits, huge fires, and yet have things under control and sometimes resuming operations a couple hours later. Now a fire in port burns for days, possibly totaling the ship:Smile_facepalm:

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I spam HE in my CAs vs BBs, and I also play BBs.   IMHO, the balance seems pretty good at the moment.  Fire management is a critical aspect of BB play.  It takes a LOT of EXPERIENCE to learn how to manage it.  Manage it by captain skills, by modules, by expendables, by positioning, by tactical situation, by map, and by match making.  All of those factor into the equation.

I'm sure most know this, but it's worth noting every so often.  ALL FIRE DAMAGE CAN BE REPAIRED. 

HE spammers know this.  That's why I also note the corollary about HE focus fire.  If you are on fire and DCP, and are in range of a team with good comms that can focus you...then they will focus you.   They know you can't put it out for a while and know that if they put multiple fires on you and overload your RT, they can burn you out while you still have multiple RT remaining.  Every RT that is used doesn't just make it so you can shoot more, it also makes the enemy waste that many more shots to sink you.  The fire play and counter play are integral to this game and requires a lot of fine tuning.

The trick is knowing how to play based on all the factors in the first paragraph to avoid being the victim in the last paragraph.

 

Edited by Soshi_Sone

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11 hours ago, VonSchoenvorts said:

Okay this is probably beating a dead horse but something needs to be done about fires. I may not have a degree in naval history but I do not believe any combat ship ever had its decks soaked in gasoline and stacked with kindling. There is no reason a light cruiser or destroyer should be able to inflict so much damage on a BB with just its guns. I think WG really needs to buff the fire chance and reduce the amount of time they burn. At the very least I think that the repair party should also extinguish fires, that would go a long way in making the game a lot better. That's my two cents on the fire situation.

Tell that to the lost souls on the HMS Hood...one shell hit from the Prinz Eugen was all it took to start a fire. The second or maybe third shell to land was from the Bismarck that detonated her and she sank within 3 minutes with over 1400 sailors. Only 3 survivors were pulled from the water despite the significant RN screening force present. In real life, there is no such thing as "tanking" or surviving torpedo hits, so don't come begging for more when you've already had plenty of forgiveness.  

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Roken1look bozo, the Hood took a direct hit from a BATTLESHIP to it's magazine resulting in huge explosion. I doubt very much the Prinz Eugen would have been able to have the same effect. And yes a battleship can survive from torpedo hits, read up on history. I'm not "begging", I'm stating my opinion and that's what a forum is for.

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25 minutes ago, VonSchoenvorts said:

Roken1look bozo, the Hood took a direct hit from a BATTLESHIP to it's magazine resulting in huge explosion. I doubt very much the Prinz Eugen would have been able to have the same effect. And yes a battleship can survive from torpedo hits, read up on history. I'm not "begging", I'm stating my opinion and that's what a forum is for.

One torpedo hit put the HMS Prince of Wales out of action, causing uncontrolled flooding and a heavy list. 3 subsequent torps sank her, but she was a goner after the first one,  

Bottom line is it's a game, and without any ship having a chance against any other ship, the game wouldn't work. 

Edited by Wombatmetal
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On 7/24/2020 at 2:06 AM, AJTP89 said:

Kind of sad to see how bad the Navy's gotten

It's going to a shock to see just how badly when the next conflict happens I'm afraid.

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On 7/22/2020 at 11:18 PM, VonSchoenvorts said:

Umikamicruisers shouldn't be balanced with battleships.

Then that wouldn't be fair for the cruiser players, wouldn't it?

Let's say, for a simple & quick example, a match was down to a last cruiser vs a last BB. And let's say it was a torpedo-less USN cruiser. And let's also say that you were on the cruiser player's team.

If the cruiser couldn't do something to the BB, all the while the BB can just delete the cruiser from existence through a possible citadel strike... or maybe even an over match through the cruiser's armor... then how is this a fair showdown? It would mean your team's loss is guaranteed.

Yes, I know, this hypothetical scenario leaves too many variables unknown... but still, I hope you get my point.

As already mentioned, this game is NOT a historical simulator. It's an arcade-y PEWPEWPEW shooter, with historical 3D models of ships. That's it... so yes, cruisers can be balanced with battleships.

My two flaming, fiery, burning, incinerating, blazing, igniting, lighting, flaring, and immolating cruiser HE shells.

Edited by Blorgh2017

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Just now, Blorgh2017 said:

If the cruiser couldn't do something to the BB, all the while the BB can just delete the cruiser from existence through a possible citadel strike... or maybe even an over match through the cruiser's armor... then how is this a fair showdown?

Who said it should be?  Impossible? No, but a BB should be able to smash that cruiser from existence. 

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3 minutes ago, Snarky_Wombat said:

Who said it should be?  Impossible? No, but a BB should be able to smash that cruiser from existence. 

But BB's can already do that. Throw some bones to cruisers, would ya? LOL.

And I consider myself a BB main, while saying this... lel.

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They have enough, more than enough considering their role imo.  I think people fall into the trap that everything needs to be equal, but the subject is fire.  Fire is a potent weapon, too potent I think.  The sheer amount of damage a fire does to a BB is too high, just need to tone down the percentage per second or reduce the burn time at it would be fine.

Edited by Snarky_Wombat
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