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Admiral_Thrawn_1

Shikishima Is Awesome!

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Just got the Shikishima today and played a few battles in it and found it to be an awesome ship. Making me wonder if the CCs were either wrong about the ship initially, downplayed the ship to get it past WG nerf hammers, or else WG buffed it just before release because it’s been excellent so far.

And the player reactions have been hilarious ranging from awe to terror. My teams have been far not supportive towards me in Shikishima, and enemy players scatter in terror. Might have something to do with how the gun sounds authoritatively travel across the map. The main gun shells don’t over pen as much as is commonly thought, with instead scoring a lot of full pen hits, and being accurate even at very long ranges. ( Have spotter plane on the ship so I can shoot across the map to the other flank if enemy targets are unavailable currently on my flank.)

Secondary guns are a lot of fun and have stripped down a few ships already with those, and AA guns are really nice nearly scoring AA expert today before the enemy CV finally got the hint and kept their planes and extremely respectful distance from my ship and so any nearby allies were also safe. I ran the math between Shikishima and Kurfurst and the Shikishima secondary guns outclass the the GK in potential DPM, shell damage, shell velocity, and fire chances. Hello to the new secondary king of tier X lol.

Oh and scoring triple digit damage scores feels far more effortless than any of my other ships thanks to how hard those main guns hit. Lol have gotten a lot of fun messages in battles from enemy players that heard my guns from across the map and then get hit with sizable HP losses if they survive.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, TheGreatKiller26 said:

Shikishima is a very good ship, getting good PR thought is actually hard bcause most player having it are decent.

Well for 24,000 Steel with resource ship coupon applied means a player will have to have some good experience in playing the game to get their hands on it.

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Glad to see someone has fun with battleships... :Smile_unsure:

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1 hour ago, TheGreatKiller26 said:

Shikishima is a very good ship, getting good PR thought is actually hard bcause most player having it are decent.

I have the same problem in my Ohio and my Flint.  Post good stats but not good enough for a great player rating due to the type of people that have and play those ships.

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Just remember, she still sports a Yamato hull, so goes with how easy she can be to citadel if not careful.:Smile_Default:  While I only do Co-Op, I already have 128 battles in mine and I'm loving her!  As you have witnessed in Random, I've witnessed in Co-Op any time MM Mirrors mine.  More than a few times I'll see 2 or 3 on the other side of the map cut and run behind an island (BB's included), or make their way to the other side of the map when they see the Bot Shiki on their side.:Smile_veryhappy:

 

Thing is, her dispersion reminds me of Mushashi's, only with 3 less guns.  I've had times where I'll fire a salvo, and they will go out grouped better than any cruiser, only to land like it was Mikasa that fired.  I've also seen some splits that would make a FR BB blush.  I'm still too excited using her to get her "sweet spot" range down, but that can come later. :Smile_playing:

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Beautiful Ship, now we wait until the next update where they nerf it, take gun and it's range away (like they did Conq.), Weaken the armor, Strap on a toilet paper roll and you'll be the shi&*

Edited by Sirzin_6

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Your positive experience with the A-150 might have something to do with the recent undocumented buff:

Quote

Tier X Japanese battleship Shikishima:

  • Unlike what was announced in the devblog, the Shikishima received a different horizontal dispersion (6.2*R+84) from the standard IJN battleships horizontal dispersion (7.2*R+84). This dispersion formula presents a lower A value and by such, gives the Shikishima a better dispersion at range than the other IJN battleships.
  • The AP normalization was brought down to 6° instead of 15°.
  • AP fuse normalized to 1/6 (85mm) instead of the previous 170 mm. This means that she will be less of an overpenetration queen.

(Source: The Daily Bounce)

The AP normalization angle reduction made the 20" shells more reliable once they enter the target hull. The AP fuse normalization (armor thickness required for it to arm) is a massive buff, making her shells deadly against all cruisers, even the Smolensk. The horizontal dispersion formula is another massive buff. The new multiplier of 6.2 gave the A-150 absurd long-range damage projection; combined with 2.1 sigma, that's even better than Georgia's. Currently only Slava (and Champagne) has better long-range damage projection:

new.png.7d506a0ffef65612e03131c13a3336ee.png

To put A-150's post-buff horizontal dispersion multiplier (x 6.2) in perspective:

3.png.c0b7ff06358688d9a03d6ff8b7242a19.png

(Source: Wargaming Wiki)

 

Edited by _Marines

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11 hours ago, Sirzin_6 said:

Beautiful Ship, now we wait until the next update where they nerf it, take gun and it's range away (like they did Conq.), Weaken the armor, Strap on a toilet paper roll and you'll be the shi&*

OMG, no, Wargaming. Please no. When they are asked to nerf something, the Dev team likes to mess with the ship itself, instead of taking away the gimmicks. Unbearably painful changes like sigma nerf (happened to Pommern and Alsace), AP fuse timer nerf (happened to Odin), and reload nerf (happened to Pommern, Alsace, and Odin) took away the fun of playing the ship. I'd rather have an unnerfed Pommern at Tier 10 than this current 1.5 sigma, slow-reload one at Tier 9.

Thank the RNGesus that there has not been any rumors about plans to nerf the A-150. However, I'm afraid that the upcoming 4x2 18-inch gun H-class battleship (Premium Tier 10) may receive the classical German treatment (like Pommern and Odin).

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12 hours ago, Sirzin_6 said:

Beautiful Ship, now we wait until the next update where they nerf it, take gun and it's range away (like they did Conq.), Weaken the armor, Strap on a toilet paper roll and you'll be the shi&*

It’s got premium status I think, so WG can’t do that to Shikishima.

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On 8/18/2020 at 1:28 AM, _Marines said:

OMG, no, Wargaming. Please no. When they are asked to nerf something, the Dev team likes to mess with the ship itself, instead of taking away the gimmicks. Unbearably painful changes like sigma nerf (happened to Pommern and Alsace), AP fuse timer nerf (happened to Odin), and reload nerf (happened to Pommern, Alsace, and Odin) took away the fun of playing the ship. I'd rather have an unnerfed Pommern at Tier 10 than this current 1.5 sigma, slow-reload one at Tier 9.

Thank the RNGesus that there has not been any rumors about plans to nerf the A-150. However, I'm afraid that the upcoming 4x2 18-inch gun H-class battleship (Premium Tier 10) may receive the classical German treatment (like Pommern and Odin).

WG won't nerf her. They're just remove her from purchase. 

As for the ship, I found it comical how CC's trashed it saying it wasn't any better than the Yamato. Turns out it's a great ship, and the player base seems to disagree with the CC's! 

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On 8/18/2020 at 2:06 AM, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

It’s got premium status I think, so WG can’t do that to Shikishima.

Actually WG can do anything it wants regardless of Premo stats. Every new ship that has ever come out has suffered the Nerf Axe and this will too.

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1 hour ago, Sirzin_6 said:

Actually WG can do anything it wants regardless of Premo stats. Every new ship that has ever come out has suffered the Nerf Axe and this will too.

Yeah well at least premiums don’t get directly nerfed. They have to be indirectly nerfed by sweeping changes that in essence nerf the premiums if they do not get corresponding buffs to compensate.

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10 hours ago, Ranari said:

As for the ship, I found it comical how CC's trashed it saying it wasn't any better than the Yamato. Turns out it's a great ship, and the player base seems to disagree with the CC's! 

That's likely because most of the videos were released on April, when buffs were still coming, including the improved dispersion. The ship also still had a 6km base secondary range. Two common complaints among CCs were that the ship's lack of access to Yamato's legendary module was holding it back and that it had nothing in particular for an alternative playstyle. The secondary buff to 7.7km base range was likely due to that second complaint.

 

On 8/18/2020 at 2:16 AM, _Marines said:

The new multiplier of 6.2 gave the A-150 absurd long-range damage projection; combined with 2.1 sigma, that's even better than Georgia's. Currently only Slava (and Champagne) has better long-range damage projection:

With sigma taken into consideration, Shikishima's guns have the best horizontal spread at 12km range and above among Tier X BBs. Even more than Thunderer and Slava. Also beats Champagne at 15km and above. You can find it by multiplying the dispersion formula of the ships with the corresponding values of following table (from https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/206336-quantifying-the-impact-of-sigma-–-help-me-doublecheck-my-analysis/?do=findComment&comment=4815763):

On 12/8/2019 at 9:00 PM, Lege_ranger said:

Accuracy ratio for each sigma on the maximum horizontal dispersion (no orthogonal projection of the vertical dispersion):


                     1       1.4       1.5       1.6       1.7       1.8       1.9         2      2.05       2.1      2.15       2.2      2.65
25% quantile 0.2255336 0.1977144 0.1902006 0.1827137 0.1753511 0.1681901 0.1612886 0.1546862 0.1515053 0.1484073 0.1453933 0.1424637 0.1197617
50% quantile 0.4595685 0.4097722 0.3956490 0.3813162 0.3669852 0.3528401 0.3390316 0.3256767 0.3191968 0.3128593 0.3066701 0.3006336 0.2533151
75% quantile 0.7125764 0.6587514 0.6417373 0.6236565 0.6047643 0.5853374 0.5656570 0.5459891 0.5362354 0.5265707 0.5170184 0.5075992 0.4309302

 

, plus any other multiplier you may want, like camo and modules. This is the horizontal radius of the ellipsis at the 75% quantile:

                        5        6        7        8        9       10       11       12       13       14       15       16       17       18       19       20       21       22       23       24       25        26
noLegYamato 75%  32.08585 34.01100 35.93615 37.86130 39.78645 41.71160 43.63675 45.56190 47.48706 49.41221 51.33736 53.26251 55.18766 57.11281 59.03796 60.96311 62.88826 64.81341 66.73856 68.66372 70.58887  72.51402
Yamato 75%       29.83984 31.63023 33.42062 35.21101 37.00140 38.79179 40.58218 42.37257 44.16296 45.95335 47.74374 49.53413 51.32452 53.11491 54.90530 56.69569 58.48608 60.27648 62.06687 63.85726 65.64765  67.43804
Shikishima 75%   30.74894 32.40671 34.06448 35.72224 37.38001 39.03778 40.69555 42.35332 44.01109 45.66886 47.32663 48.98440 50.64216 52.29993 53.95770 55.61547 57.27324 58.93101 60.58878 62.24655 63.90432  65.56208
Thunderer 75%    25.85064 28.26336 30.67609 33.08882 35.50154 37.91427 40.32699 42.73972 45.15245 47.56517 49.97790 52.39063 54.80335 57.21608 59.62880 62.04153 64.45426 66.86698 69.27971 71.69244 74.10516  76.51789
Conqueror/GK 75% 32.69449 35.66672 38.63894 41.61117 44.58340 47.55562 50.52785 53.50008 56.47230 59.44453 62.41676 65.38898 68.36121 71.33344 74.30566 77.27789 80.25011 83.22234 86.19457 89.16679 92.13902  95.11125
Montana 75%      30.23629 32.98504 35.73380 38.48255 41.23130 43.98006 46.72881 49.47756 52.22632 54.97507 57.72383 60.47258 63.22133 65.97009 68.71884 71.46759 74.21635 76.96510 79.71385 82.46261 85.21136  87.96011
Ohio 75%         29.18497 31.83815 34.49133 37.14451 39.79769 42.45087 45.10405 47.75723 50.41041 53.06359 55.71677 58.36995 61.02313 63.67631 66.32949 68.98267 71.63585 74.28903 76.94221 79.59538 82.24856  84.90174
Bourgogne 75%    34.18060 37.09339 40.00617 42.91895 45.83173 48.74451 51.65730 54.57008 57.48286 60.39564 63.30842 66.22121 69.13399 72.04677 74.95955 77.87233 80.78512 83.69790 86.61068 89.52346 92.43624  95.34903
Republique 75%   31.88287 34.59985 37.31682 40.03380 42.75077 45.46775 48.18472 50.90170 53.61867 56.33565 59.05262 61.76960 64.48657 67.20355 69.92052 72.63750 75.35447 78.07145 80.78842 83.50540 86.22237  88.93935
Kremlin 75%      27.93893 31.44616 34.95338 38.46061 41.96784 45.47507 48.98229 52.48952 55.99675 59.50397 63.01120 66.51843 70.02566 73.53288 77.04011 80.54734 84.05456 87.56179 91.06902 94.57625 98.08347 101.59070
Slava 75%        37.33981 38.77596 40.21210 41.64825 43.08440 44.52054 45.95669 47.39284 48.82898 50.26513 51.70128 53.13742 54.57357 56.00972 57.44586 58.88201 60.31815 61.75430 63.19045 64.62659 66.06274  67.49889
Champagne 75%    24.95181 27.28065 29.60948 31.93832 34.26715 36.59599 38.92483 41.25366 43.58250 45.91133 48.24017 50.56900 52.89784 55.22668 57.55551 59.88435 62.21318 64.54202 66.87086 69.19969 71.52853  73.85736

 

Edited by Lege_ranger

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Shikishima main gun battery is inferior to Yamato there is no doubt about it. A full salvo hit from Yamato does far more damage than Shikishima does and this is assuming just raw 100% unmitigated damage. The 20 inch does negligible to compensate for the mitigation factor and the less-overpen modifications were really because early Shiki testing had thet hing overpenning everything or bouncing off everything. I remember an early test seeing one in random and he shot and shot and shot at ships but did less than 50k damage the whole battle. Everything was overpen. Even the red team was commenting on how horrible it was to see that.

Accuracy wise, its still as bad as Yamato because despite ALL THOSE AMAZING numbers you show.. its still horizontal thats good and the vertical which trashes the accuracy. I mean, just look at Slava accuracy at long ranges right there.. its not much better or worse than Shiki nor Yamato. But you know for a fact Slava WILL land multiple citadels consistently on a broadside target while Yamato/Shiki will splash and miss most shells while the rest hit non-citadel areas..and a citadel is just going to be RNG's gift to you. Just one. Once in a blue moon.

Shikishima just has darn good secondaries and AA as its perk over Yamato..and it really is amazing in that regard.

 

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I consider Shikishima's main batteries to be better than Yamato's. Their DPM is within 3% of Yamato's due to the -10% reload time on the 510mm, with the advantage of not needing the legendary module on slot 6 for the improved dispersion. That frees Shikishima to use the reload module instead, ending with both better dispersion and DPM, instead of only one of either.

Accuracy wise, horizontal dispersion is a major parameter that is notable against angled or bowtanking targets, the situation you expect the opponent to be most of the time. Also, vertical dispersion is a ratio of the horizontal dispersion.; the lower your horizontal dispersion is, the lower the vertical also is, and may approach or beat the vertical dispersion of another ship that has better vertical ratio, but worse horizontal dispersion than you.

For instance, say that the IJN BB vertical ratio is 0.285 and the USN BB vertical ratio is 0.225; these values are estimated from my previous analysis. If we compare Shikishima with Montana, the latter which is in the middle of the tier X BBs in horizontal accuracy, we have that their vertical dispersion at 15 km range for a 75% quantile is:

Shikishima - 47.32663 * 0.285 = 13.48809m radius

Montana - 57.72383 * 0.225 = 12.98786m radius

13.48809/12.98786 = 1.03851, or about 3.85% bigger effective vertical dispersion on Shikishima.

A ~3.85% increase in vertical dispersion shouldn't have such a big impact on how frequently the shells hit a citadel; Shikishima and Yamato should perform comparably to the average vertical dispersion among tier X BBs at mid ranges. At longer ranges, they should actually perform better than that. As such, Shikishima and Yamato should have average vertical dispersion at midrange, but the best horizontal dispersion among their peers.

That said, this is for these 2.1 sigma IJN ships with improved dispersion. For the rest of the IJN BBs, this increased vertical ratio is more noticeable, and I don't see a reason for ships like Fuso or Nagato to suffer from that. Wargaming also stated recently that they consider Thunderer to be balanced, a ship with battlecruiser horizontal dispersion with comparable horizontal accuracy to Yamato and Shikishima, but without the increased vertical ratio; she likely has the same verical ratio to the USN tech tree BBs. Add Slava as well, and I don't see a reason to add this increased ratio to the IJN BB line , who is advertised with "High firing accuracy of the main battery" as a core national flavor. 

Personally, there are good indications of increased vertical ratio for the IJN BBs, and I think that ratio should be removed.

Edited by Lege_ranger

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