Jump to content
You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.
GilHooverII

Hermes, Hosho, or Rhein to Start a CV Grind?

36 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

7
[ALL41]
[ALL41]
Members
17 posts
7,334 battles

I am a co-op potato that has never played CV's before.  In my port, I have the Tier IV Hermes, the Hosho, and the Rhein, all with a Level 10 commander.  I have decided its time to learn how to play low tier CVs...and grind a line.

It appears that the British are the easiest to learn but have lower damage averages, the Japanese are the most difficult to master, but the rewards are greater, and the German's in between.  Not sure that I will ever have the skill to be a meaningful CV player in randoms, so I expect to stick to co-op at first and later scenarios. With that in mind, which of the 3 CV lines would best (most fun) for me?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,712
[RLGN]
Members
13,725 posts
23,946 battles

US can be okay, but the Brit bombers are a bit easier to use. (AoE drop pattern.)

IJN and KM may be too dependent on your being able to master dropping AP correctly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,881
[TARK]
Members
5,611 posts
2,260 battles
41 minutes ago, GilHooverII said:

I am a co-op potato that has never played CV's before.  In my port, I have the Tier IV Hermes, the Hosho, and the Rhein, all with a Level 10 commander.  I have decided its time to learn how to play low tier CVs...and grind a line.

It appears that the British are the easiest to learn but have lower damage averages, the Japanese are the most difficult to master, but the rewards are greater, and the German's in between.  Not sure that I will ever have the skill to be a meaningful CV player in randoms, so I expect to stick to co-op at first and later scenarios. With that in mind, which of the 3 CV lines would best (most fun) for me?

I think the easiest is USN, your planes can all damage any target...and they are robust...so you can deal with AA.

IJN is probably the second easiest, as they have great torpedoes...which are easier to use than dive or level bombers.

RN relies heavily on RNG or on your ability to kill off the light ships.

I would start with USN.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,102
[V_KNG]
Beta Testers
11,623 posts

Ask yourself if you want to drop AP or HE bombs from your dive bombers. If you don't know at this point, generally speaking, AP damage is immediate, HE can be accumulative IF you get a fire started. 

I would suggest you consider the RN (Hermes onward) line, as it was suggested earlier, the carpet bombing is relatively easy to get the hang of using. 

The German line, while very interesting (to me) utilizes style and technique not common with the other carrier lines. The bombers are wild as you are way the heck up in the air and plunge like boulder. I have only the T4 German, but have USN/IJN/RN all the way up to T10. The German T4 is a bit touchy on controls and the window you have to deliver is well... tight., 

I would recommend going Royal Navy then take your pick for USN or IJN. 

Keep in mind, the T4 play will be much easier to a degree because the AA(A) is not as severe as other tiers. You don't have to worry about strategically dropping fighters to protect your team because there aren't any at that tier. 

The fun part is just getting in it, pressing play (after confirming you are in Coop!) and have fun. If you don't mind a bit of bad behavior, I always tell folks I'm new at whatever ship I'm playing, don't expect much then I ignore all their negative comments. 

Hey - I warned them! 

  • Cool 1
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,850
[GWG]
Members
6,757 posts
12,935 battles

It's not a job, kiddo.  It's a game.

If you try it and don't think it's fun -- try something else.

Try a couple battles in all three that you have...   If you really screw up - and even lose..   Hey..  That's co-op.

But since the current directives and missions are going on, I don't think you'll be noticed if you go AFK.  

The good players have dipped into co-op and the games are over in 3 minutes.  You'll be lucky to get two torp drops in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,490
[GWG]
[GWG]
Supertester
25,656 posts
13,997 battles
1 hour ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

US can be okay, but the Brit bombers are a bit easier to use. (AoE drop pattern.)

IJN and KM may be too dependent on your being able to master dropping AP correctly.

Personally I think that starting with US is the way to go because their DB's are useful against DD's where the IJN ones are mostly useless because of over penetration. The RN and KM CV's have differences that need to be learned before they are effective.

Edited by BrushWolf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7
[ALL41]
[ALL41]
Members
17 posts
7,334 battles

Thank you, all!  

I will try all three for a bit...maybe one will click with me better than the others.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
153
[D-H-O]
Alpha Tester
886 posts
5 minutes ago, GilHooverII said:

Thank you, all!  

I will try all three for a bit...maybe one will click with me better than the others.

Have fun!  RN is highly underrated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,712
[RLGN]
Members
13,725 posts
23,946 battles
13 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

Personally I think that starting with US is the way to go because their DB's are useful against DD's where the IJN ones are mostly useless because of over penetration. The RN and KM CV's have differences that need to be learned before they are effective.

Finding the RNs relatively easier to use may have to do with how the bombing UI works.

It’s not like I get motion sickness or anything; but that swing up, then dive down of the US and IJN, and even just the dive straight down of the KM, grates on my nerves (eyes?) for some reason.

The straight forward manner of the RN, ‘cover the spot you want to hit and drop,’ doesn’t make me crazy like the others do...

I really have no idea why.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,490
[GWG]
[GWG]
Supertester
25,656 posts
13,997 battles
1 minute ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Finding the RNs relatively easier to use may have to do with how the bombing UI works.

It’s not like I get motion sickness or anything; but that swing up, then dive down of the US and IJN, and even just the dive straight down of the KM, grates on my nerves (eyes?) for some reason.

The straight forward manner of the RN, ‘cover the spot you want to hit and drop,’ doesn’t make me crazy like the others do...

I really have no idea why.

My reasoning is if you know how the US planes work you know how the IJN planes work where with the RN the level bomber does take some getting used to as you have to lead different than the US or IJN DB's. The KM planes are all completely different than any of the other country's planes.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
4,236 posts
9,256 battles
1 hour ago, GilHooverII said:

I am a co-op potato that has never played CV's before.  In my port, I have the Tier IV Hermes, the Hosho, and the Rhein, all with a Level 10 commander.  I have decided its time to learn how to play low tier CVs...and grind a line.

It appears that the British are the easiest to learn but have lower damage averages, the Japanese are the most difficult to master, but the rewards are greater, and the German's in between.  Not sure that I will ever have the skill to be a meaningful CV player in randoms, so I expect to stick to co-op at first and later scenarios. With that in mind, which of the 3 CV lines would best (most fun) for me?

I have all the ships you mention, plus the Langley.

The Hosho is the easiest to learn, in my opinion.
Hermes and Langley are tied for the next easiest.
Rhein uses a different aiming sequence for the rocket planes.  It can be learned, so it's not a big deal.  Just different and a surprise the first time.

But, aren't they all supposed to be easy?
In a way, yes.
The "easy" or "difficult" can change depending upon which squadron you're piloting.

The AP bomb equipped squadrons demand properly set-up attack runs and precise aiming & timing.  Those are Japanese and German planes.
The HE bomb squadrons are more forgiving, with the British being the most forgiving at Tier-6 and Tier-8.  Just aim ahead of the target sufficiently enough so the bombs will land where the target will be.
Practice until you're comfortable with the timing of the start-release-fall-impact sequence.

The torpedo squadrons ease of use also depends upon the speed of their torpedoes.
Fast torpedoes require less aiming-ahead-of-the-target, and are more user-friendly for most people.
The Japanese torpedoes are the fastest.
The other nations are slower and require aiming further ahead of a target.

For all but the newest German CV's the rocket planes are simple and easy to use.  Just aim at the bow of a DD and you'll hit near amidships or the stern.  The dispersion pattern varies from nation to nation.
The German CV's can be learned.  With practice one can become comfortable with their use.  They aim at the same place.  It is just that the aiming reticle behavior is different than the others.

Admittedly, I like them all.  I'm willing to learn each of their quirks and national flavor.

I suggest trying them all.  But if I had to pick, I'd go with Hosho as a first ship.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
4,236 posts
9,256 battles
1 hour ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Ask yourself if you want to drop AP or HE bombs from your dive bombers. If you don't know at this point, generally speaking, AP damage is immediate, HE can be accumulative IF you get a fire started. 

I would suggest you consider the RN (Hermes onward) line, as it was suggested earlier, the carpet bombing is relatively easy to get the hang of using. 

The German line, while very interesting (to me) utilizes style and technique not common with the other carrier lines. The bombers are wild as you are way the heck up in the air and plunge like boulder. I have only the T4 German, but have USN/IJN/RN all the way up to T10. The German T4 is a bit touchy on controls and the window you have to deliver is well... tight., 

I would recommend going Royal Navy then take your pick for USN or IJN. 

Keep in mind, the T4 play will be much easier to a degree because the AA(A) is not as severe as other tiers. You don't have to worry about strategically dropping fighters to protect your team because there aren't any at that tier. 

The fun part is just getting in it, pressing play (after confirming you are in Coop!) and have fun. If you don't mind a bit of bad behavior, I always tell folks I'm new at whatever ship I'm playing, don't expect much then I ignore all their negative comments. 

Hey - I warned them! 

:cap_like::Smile_veryhappy:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
4,236 posts
9,256 battles
27 minutes ago, GilHooverII said:

Thank you, all!  

I will try all three for a bit...maybe one will click with me better than the others.

:cap_look::cap_like:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
821
[HC]
Beta Testers
2,839 posts
12,488 battles
1 hour ago, GilHooverII said:

I am a co-op potato that has never played CV's before.  In my port, I have the Tier IV Hermes, the Hosho, and the Rhein, all with a Level 10 commander.  I have decided its time to learn how to play low tier CVs...and grind a line.

It appears that the British are the easiest to learn but have lower damage averages, the Japanese are the most difficult to master, but the rewards are greater, and the German's in between.  Not sure that I will ever have the skill to be a meaningful CV player in randoms, so I expect to stick to co-op at first and later scenarios. With that in mind, which of the 3 CV lines would best (most fun) for me?

I'd go with Hosho, because she leads to Ryujo, which is an excellent CV for operations, in addition to being a fairly good CV overall. Also, IJN and USN CV's share all the weapon types, so experience with one will help with proficiency with the other if you ever got with the USN CV line. Neither the IJN or USN have any bad CV"s. (and yes, I know IJN CV's get AP bombs, and USN CV's get HE bombs, but hey both work the same)

HMS Hermes, leads to HMS Furious, which isn't a bad ship, but tier 8 in the HMS Implacable, which leaves a lot to be desired. She's the was the worst tier 8 tech tree carrier until the Germans were released. I'm on the fence if she'll lose that title. You get carpet bombers instead of dive bombers, which are less effective in many situations, and usually just firestarters.

With Rhein, the whole line is based on mixing up aircraft roles. The attack aircraft are anti-cruiser, the torpedo bombers are anti-DD, and the dive bombers are anti-battleship. All the aircraft are poorly suited to their roles, the rocket planes have the lowest hit points, and they're going against the e best AA, The dive bombers are fragile and hover in the AA to get eaten while the torpedo bombers actually aren't that bad, even at hitting DD"s with a lot of practice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,712
[RLGN]
Members
13,725 posts
23,946 battles
7 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Admittedly, I like them all.  I'm willing to learn each of their quirks and national flavor.

That’s just it; other than obvious visual differences, I don’t really ‘see’ any differences or ‘quirks.’

They’ve never been anything more than ‘cardboard boxes flying off dime store balsa gliders’ to me.

2 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

HMS Hermes, leads to HMS Furious, which isn't a bad ship...

...but it is ugly as heck.

I’d rather (and do,) use Ark Royal.

2 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

...but tier 8 in the HMS Implacable, which leaves a lot to be desired. She's the was the worst tier 8 tech tree carrier until the Germans were released.

At least Implacable is better looking than Furious.

Just have Zeppy. No idea what the KM carriers are like yet.

  • Meh 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
4,236 posts
9,256 battles
1 minute ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

That’s just it; other than obvious visual differences, I don’t really ‘see’ any differences or ‘quirks.’

They’ve never been anything more than ‘cardboard boxes flying off dime store balsa gliders’ to me.

:Smile_veryhappy:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
821
[HC]
Beta Testers
2,839 posts
12,488 battles
6 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

That’s just it; other than obvious visual differences, I don’t really ‘see’ any differences or ‘quirks.’

They’ve never been anything more than ‘cardboard boxes flying off dime store balsa gliders’ to me.

...but it is ugly as heck.

I’d rather (and do,) use Ark Royal.

At least Implacable is better looking than Furious.

Just have Zeppy. No idea what the KM carriers are like yet.

I was just sticking to tech tree CV's, Ark Royal is certainly the prettier ship, but with the CV's, you spend more time looking at the aircraft than at the ship.

The only thing that Graf Zeppelin shares with the tech tree German CV's is the artwork and the use of German captains.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,102
[V_KNG]
Beta Testers
11,623 posts
7 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

The only thing that Graf Zeppelin shares with the tech tree German CV's is the artwork and the use of German captains.

I think she's there to absorb all the nerf hammer hits and pent up angst of the devs, so the tech tree ships can at least be playable. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
821
[HC]
Beta Testers
2,839 posts
12,488 battles
1 hour ago, Herr_Reitz said:

I think she's there to absorb all the nerf hammer hits and pent up angst of the devs, so the tech tree ships can at least be playable. 

So far, I'm not impressed with the tech tree German CV's, post nerf, GZ is still a functional CV. The tech tree ones are an interesting collection of concepts, that the details were ignored, and were otherwise executed poorly. Very much in line with GZ's dive bombers, cool idea, but even before the AP bomb nerf, they were more or less worthless except in really odd circumstances. The whole German CV line is like that, without the generally useful torpedoes and rockets of the GZ.

I probably need to take Wesser, and live in operations for a while with her, and see if she can actually match Ranger or Furious in functionality, even if I doubt she's gonna hold a candle to Ark Royal or Ryujo.

Edited by SgtBeltfed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
324
[TBB]
Members
375 posts
3,535 battles
On 7/22/2020 at 8:47 PM, BrushWolf said:

Personally I think that starting with US is the way to go because their DB's are useful against DD's where the IJN ones are mostly useless because of over penetration. The RN and KM CV's have differences that need to be learned before they are effective.

This. 

The US has the advantage of being able to hit DDs with their bombers later in the tech tree. With the potential change to DD detection by air, those bombers will be much more useful down the road. Also, the US line is a jack of all trades, just can't go wrong. 

Over everything though, have fun. Carriers are a much different playstyle; you'll really be looking more around the map, seeing where you can take advantage of a situation; just more strategic I think then the tactics involved with manaeuving a ship.  Also, it's just nice to fly and take in the sights.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
821
[HC]
Beta Testers
2,839 posts
12,488 battles
3 hours ago, Merc_R_Us said:

This. 

The US has the advantage of being able to hit DDs with their bombers later in the tech tree. With the potential change to DD detection by air, those bombers will be much more useful down the road. Also, the US line is a jack of all trades, just can't go wrong. 

Over everything though, have fun. Carriers are a much different playstyle; you'll really be looking more around the map, seeing where you can take advantage of a situation; just more strategic I think then the tactics involved with manaeuving a ship.  Also, it's just nice to fly and take in the sights.

I would have agreed with you, until WG nerfed the dispersion on the HE dive bombers a while back, which seriously hurt their ability to hit DD's and small cruisers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
544
[POP]
Members
925 posts
8,419 battles
On 7/22/2020 at 5:47 PM, BrushWolf said:

Personally I think that starting with US is the way to go because their DB's are useful against DD's where the IJN ones are mostly useless because of over penetration. The RN and KM CV's have differences that need to be learned before they are effective.

This is pretty solid advice.  The ability to kill DD's or help kill DD's is the single most effective way to secure a win for your team.  With that said, the skeptic inside of me is making me think WG is going to continue to nerf CV's ability to hunt DD's and their reasoning is going to be "balance" compared the the German CV that are pretty useless as DD hunters.  I can't say I will be disappointed either as DD hunting, being expected to hunt DD's, spot DD, blamed for not killing the DD that torp'd a friendly BB is getting old.  Farming damge on BB's and forcing movement of cruisers is where the fun lies for me.

For now, the way things are USN CV are really the jack of all trades ships.  I would say the RN CV are the easiest to get the hang of followed by USN then Japanese.  The German CV are completely different, easy to land ordinance but not easy to do effective damage.  Getting good damage from rockets and dive bombers requires proper target selection, shot placement etc.  Things that may be a bit much to worry about when you are just trying to learn the basics.  If you are good at remembering that stuff however you may find German CV easy to play.  Again though the ineffectiveness at killing DD's can really hamper you.  Playing T4 the majority of capital ships and cruisers were filled with bots and the only live payers were CV's and DD's.  That only exacerbated the issue as killing bots is not the priority because they are predictable.  Playing T6 the bots were gone but the same issue was there, if the enemy team has anything not German and they pressure your teams DD's you are going to have a hard time making up for it by farming damage on cruisers and BB's not just because of their larger health pools but the fact that they are typically further away than the DD's so more time is wasted flying. 

In the end, I wold suggest palying some coop with all of the ones you have and see which fits your play style the best.  All can be effective and all are pretty similar to the rest of the tech tree.  If you have the cash and like doing operations, Ark Royal is a great option.  Yes her planes are slow but that can be advantageous because it makes them super maneuverable.  AA is not that bad at T6 either so the speed does not really cost you planes like it would at higher tiers.  She is premium so you get those XP and credit bonuses as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
544
[POP]
Members
925 posts
8,419 battles
1 minute ago, SgtBeltfed said:

I would have agreed with you, until WG nerfed the dispersion on the HE dive bombers a while back, which seriously hurt their ability to hit DD's and small cruisers.

Back when you could sling all your bombs in the upper 1/3 of the reticle USN CV could absolutely wreck smaller targets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,490
[GWG]
[GWG]
Supertester
25,656 posts
13,997 battles
18 minutes ago, HallaSnackbar said:

This is pretty solid advice.  The ability to kill DD's or help kill DD's is the single most effective way to secure a win for your team.  With that said, the skeptic inside of me is making me think WG is going to continue to nerf CV's ability to hunt DD's and their reasoning is going to be "balance" compared the the German CV that are pretty useless as DD hunters.  I can't say I will be disappointed either as DD hunting, being expected to hunt DD's, spot DD, blamed for not killing the DD that torp'd a friendly BB is getting old.  Farming damge on BB's and forcing movement of cruisers is where the fun lies for me.

For now, the way things are USN CV are really the jack of all trades ships.  I would say the RN CV are the easiest to get the hang of followed by USN then Japanese.  The German CV are completely different, easy to land ordinance but not easy to do effective damage.  Getting good damage from rockets and dive bombers requires proper target selection, shot placement etc.  Things that may be a bit much to worry about when you are just trying to learn the basics.  If you are good at remembering that stuff however you may find German CV easy to play.  Again though the ineffectiveness at killing DD's can really hamper you.  Playing T4 the majority of capital ships and cruisers were filled with bots and the only live payers were CV's and DD's.  That only exacerbated the issue as killing bots is not the priority because they are predictable.  Playing T6 the bots were gone but the same issue was there, if the enemy team has anything not German and they pressure your teams DD's you are going to have a hard time making up for it by farming damage on cruisers and BB's not just because of their larger health pools but the fact that they are typically further away than the DD's so more time is wasted flying. 

In the end, I wold suggest palying some coop with all of the ones you have and see which fits your play style the best.  All can be effective and all are pretty similar to the rest of the tech tree.  If you have the cash and like doing operations, Ark Royal is a great option.  Yes her planes are slow but that can be advantageous because it makes them super maneuverable.  AA is not that bad at T6 either so the speed does not really cost you planes like it would at higher tiers.  She is premium so you get those XP and credit bonuses as well.

I don't see the detection changes having much impact except early on in a match because other ships will light them up for the CV's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
544
[POP]
Members
925 posts
8,419 battles
Just now, BrushWolf said:

I don't see the detection changes having much impact except early on in a match because other ships will light them up for the CV's.

I don't think WG is going to stop there.  I believe they will find other ways to make hitting and damaging DD's ineffective.  Although the German CV line will always be unique,  I believe if they find a way to balance them in regards to surface ship interaction they will begin with class wide nerfs or buffs to DD's to bring other CV's in line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×