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KnifeInUrNeck

German CVs are a waste

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I’m not a CV guy, I’m a WoWS guy. Less so now than I was before. It’s probably more from burn out than any specific issue of the game. I felt this info relevant going forward with my takedown of the German CVs. I’m approaching this from a productivity and contribution angle and not the fun factor as the fun factor is far more subjective. I actually think they look and sound cool. I understand these were an attempt to relieve pressure on the DDs by focusing on cruisers but these ships don’t even do that well.

I feel that most objective players can see by their very nature, CVs are in an awkward place in a naval game. In reality their power eclipsed that of some of the mightiest battleships on earth. So finding a place that was reasonable for them was always going to be a tough ask. Here is WGs newest attempt at trying to find a sweet spot. I admire the effort but it doesn’t work.

The biggest issue I have is why would I take the only ship line of it’s type that can’t effectively counter DDs? Every other CV in this game gets rockets that nuke DDs. We are given fast torpedoes to go kill DDs. It can be done but it’s far more inefficient. It took 5 torpedo hits to kill a T8 Z-35 using the Parseval. How many would a T10 RU DD take or a French if you could even hit them?

I’m pretty sure even the early adopters singing praises of these things after getting a few cits on a rocket run now realize it just doesn’t add up. The few large strikes on a cruiser doesn’t replace the ability to neutralize a DD, which behind CV is the potentially most powerful ship in any given match. So then these rockets are just for farming? They’re good at moving island campers and finishing off cruisers that are vulnerable to the rockets. But many cruisers eat a couple normal pens and they’re health barely moves. If I’m trading DDs for cruisers I better be effective. The thing is AP is notoriously fickle. It has bounce angles and interacts differently with different armor thicknesses and schemes. So why would I want AP over HE when I get assured damage and DoT potential. This comes on top of being able to use HE rockets on any ship type vs wasting AP on DDs with over pens and BBs with breaks or bounces.

The bombs are fine honestly. I wish the bombs actually landed in the crosshairs consistently but they perform pretty reasonably. Cruisers can dodge them very easily if not stopped and damage is decent. But again, this armament is essentially limited to one ship type whereas other CVs can even dive bomb DDs. 
 

I get what WG was trying to do but make these things worth while vs other CVs they’d have to be more effective vs cruisers imo. Why? If you’re not countering DDs and the other team is, you’re DDs would need to step in. This can be facilitated by helping them with cruisers. I’ll admit this would suck for cruisers and probably isn’t feasible. 
 

I really wanted to like the German CVs but I don’t. I’ll still get the T10 because I like parking ships and looking at them in port but after a few games I’d probably never touch it. I don’t play CV a ton anyway so once this event is over I’ll go back to my Marceau or Petro. If you’re struggling to get a German Cv from a free container I say don’t worry about it. You’re not missing much.

Edited by KnifeInUrNeck
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2 minutes ago, KnifeInUrNeck said:

The biggest issue I have is why would I take the only ship line of it’s type that can’t effectively counter DDs? Every other CV in this game gets rockets that nuke DDs. We are given fast torpedoes to go kill DDs. It can be done but it’s far more inefficient. It took 5 torpedo hits to kill a T8 Z-35 using the Parseval. How many would a T10 RU DD take or a French if you could even hit them?

Because with the state of the game, DD have bags of counter and you barely see more than 2 or 3 DD per match, while Cruiser comes in dozen. Also, even rocket planes tends to not be that great against proper DD commander: the spotting do far more damage to the DD.

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13 minutes ago, Y_Nagato said:

Because with the state of the game, DD have bags of counter and you barely see more than 2 or 3 DD per match, while Cruiser comes in dozen. Also, even rocket planes tends to not be that great against proper DD commander: the spotting do far more damage to the DD.

I’d still rather take any other CV over German. It doesn’t really address any of that. I understand it was done to pull pressure off the DDs but it doesn’t really work when you have 3 other lines that do everything better. HE rockets are just better.

Edited by KnifeInUrNeck
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4 minutes ago, Y_Nagato said:

Because with the state of the game, DD have bags of counter and you barely see more than 2 or 3 DD per match, while Cruiser comes in dozen. Also, even rocket planes tends to not be that great against proper DD commander: the spotting do far more damage to the DD.

I'm actually fine with CVs damage against DDs if they couldn't spot for their team with attack aircraft under AA fire.

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I've been rather unlucky getting missions for them, and I'm not spending any money on this...so I have not had a chance to play around with them really at all...I only have the T4 one and I have no interest at all in playing that.   

But yeah, I'm less than interested in them frankly, they seem rather bad.   Giving up all fire chance to get some citadels on cruisers that still don't even do that much damage...yawn.

Edited by Zenn3k

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Even among people who all drink tea, they don't all prefer the same flavor of tea.

I play all available ship types.

I've played enough CV's to enjoy some variety.  As far as I am concerned, the new German CV's are a welcome addition to the available pool of ships to play.

I've got the Rhein.  For Tier-4 she's something different and entertaining.  I can do okay with her.  I'm looking forward to playing the higher-tiered German CV's, too, in addition to my Graf Zeppelin.

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They'll be in full release in a couple of weeks, and that means they will be available for anyone to try out in PTS 0.9.8. 

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By the act of spotting you can counter most DDs with mediocre to bad AA. Besides, overspecialization of classes and ships isn't something new. PanAsian DDs are a fine example of such a case.

If the spotting changes go through things might change, I grant you that but as is, you can give eyes to your team.

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6 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

By the act of spotting you can counter most DDs with mediocre to bad AA. Besides, overspecialization of classes and ships isn't something new. PanAsian DDs are a fine example of such a case.

If the spotting changes go through things might change, I grant you that but as is, you can give eyes to your team.

This is true with all CVs but the others have the option to attack consistently as well. Then they can take that same armament and go hit a cruiser or BB.

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Parseval can have its secondaries reach out to 10.6km and can have its max concealment be at 10.6km I believe so which ever DD tries to hunt you is gonna be in a world of hurt.

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13 minutes ago, Vader_Sama said:

Parseval can have its secondaries reach out to 10.6km and can have its max concealment be at 10.6km I believe so which ever DD tries to hunt you is gonna be in a world of hurt.

That’s swell and all but incredibly impractical. It still doesn’t address what you do when you need to hunt them beyond hoping they potato into your torps.

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Yeah, I agree they are incredibly underwhelming. Even against cruisers and BBs I would prefer to have normal rockets. Fires, module damage, and being more versatile on their angle of approach more than make up for the lower damage ceiling that you will never reach against anything but potatoes anyway. Nailing DDs with torps is easier than I expected at least. I don't think they are for me, I hate how limited in versatility their planes are. Also if they were going to make a line with planes more fragile than the Japanese ones they really should have made them noticeably faster to compensate, there is no reason the T10's bombers and torps should be both slower and more fragile than GZ's.

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Also remember that with no HE you aren't stripping ships of any aa like you can with other cvs

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3 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

They'll be in full release in a couple of weeks, and that means they will be available for anyone to try out in PTS 0.9.8. 

Well, except permacamos, which are doubly valuable on CVs )))

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3 minutes ago, dimzzy said:

Well, except permacamos, which are doubly valuable on CVs )))

You get so many resources in the Public Test Server that you could no-camo derp in a Tier 10 CV and feed all your planes to a triple Halland div for battle after battle, and it wouldn't matter.

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2 hours ago, Vader_Sama said:

Parseval can have its secondaries reach out to 10.6km and can have its max concealment be at 10.6km I believe so which ever DD tries to hunt you is gonna be in a world of hurt.

I was just in a game in my Z-46 dueling with Parseval. I think he didn't spec for secondaries specifically but they were VERY weak. Horrible dispersion and did almost no damage to me. I think GZ is still the only viable option for secondary CV build.

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Just now, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

You get so many resources in the Public Test Server that you could no-camo derp in a Tier 10 CV and feed all your planes to a triple Halland div for battle after battle, and it wouldn't matter.

I'm not concerned with PTS; I'm a bit salty that after opening almost all possible containers I didn't get a single mission to unlock permacamo for German CV.

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2 minutes ago, dimzzy said:

I'm not concerned with PTS; I'm a bit salty that after opening almost all possible containers I didn't get a single mission to unlock permacamo for German CV.

Oh, that. Yeah, I feel bad for you. 

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11 minutes ago, dimzzy said:

I'm not concerned with PTS; I'm a bit salty that after opening almost all possible containers I didn't get a single mission to unlock permacamo for German CV.

I don't think there are any missions in containers to unlock permacamos.  The container missions are for the ships themselves.  You need to complete the various German Carrier missions to earn enough tokens.  Unless you buy the 7.5k Doubloon mission packs.

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12 minutes ago, dimzzy said:

I was just in a game in my Z-46 dueling with Parseval. I think he didn't spec for secondaries specifically but they were VERY weak. Horrible dispersion and did almost no damage to me. I think GZ is still the only viable option for secondary CV build.

That's not surprising. They may have Mass dispersion but they are only still only the low damage german 105mm guns and since ManSecs is largely incompatible with CVs the improved based dispersion doesn't end up meaning much.

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6 hours ago, Jitta77 said:

I'm actually fine with CVs damage against DDs if they couldn't spot for their team with attack aircraft under AA fire.

Fine?

I’ll wait for other ships to spot destroyers normally, then attack them anyway.

This may actually make Killer Whale easier to play. Forget spotting the destroyers and just attack everything else...

...for a class that’s supposed to ‘spot for the team,’ WG sure is trying really hard to make the ‘spotters,’ dependent on spotting by everyone else.

5 hours ago, Zenn3k said:

I've been rather unlucky getting missions for them, and I'm not spending any money on this...so I have not had a chance to play around with them really at all...I only have the T4 one and I have no interest at all in playing that.

Collected 25 of the Directive containers so far, and no joy. Guess I’ll just wait for the normal release.

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16 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Fine?

I’ll wait for other ships to spot destroyers normally, then attack them anyway.

This may actually make Killer Whale easier to play. Forget spotting the destroyers and just attack everything else...

...for a class that’s supposed to ‘spot for the team,’ WG sure is trying really hard to make the ‘spotters,’ dependent on spotting by everyone else.

 

The problem is CVs completely change the spotting game, especially in competitive play.  DDs use to have the spotting role but CVs do it so much better for less risk.  I'm also fine with CVs having a spotting consumable like dropping fighters does today.  However, the CV does significantly less DPS today.  It takes them 10 mins to sink a BB so much so that a BB can rush a CV position and still be alive to kill the CV.

I honestly think CVs could be given MORE bomber/torp damage if the massive spotting (often a side effect of normal play) was toned down and made into a consumable choice that CVs deploy.

If CVs want to attack a spotted DD, go for it.  That means the DD screwed up in his own way.

 

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6 hours ago, KnifeInUrNeck said:

The biggest issue I have is why would I take the only ship line of it’s type that can’t effectively counter DDs?

I'd flip this around and ask, why are the other CVs so good at it? IMO the German CVs are relatively balanced, and the other three lines are too good against destroyers.

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1 minute ago, Edgecase said:

I'd flip this around and ask, why are the other CVs so good at it? IMO the German CVs are relatively balanced, and the other three lines are too good against destroyers.

That’s fine and all but until the other lines are balanced this is a dead line. Why take these over their better equipped brethren?

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