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MrTurtle49

USN BBs

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I think that the USN BBs should have the improved autobounce angles, like the USN CAs. Unlike all other nations, they don't have a gimmick.

French- spood beast

German- hydro/secondaries

British- godly HE

Japanese- Overmatch, armor and sigma

Russians- Balans (HP pool/tankiness)

Americans- ...?

They do have the super heavy shells, resulting in the slower shell velocity that is in-game, meaning they should have the good ap angles. They lack the overmatch like Kremlin, Republique and Yamato, they lack the powerful HE, so you can angle easily against them, unlike other nations. If they had better angles would make them competitive against angled ships, in ways other nation's ships are already extremely competitive. Now I think the angles should only be added to the 'fast battleship' line, if the BB split happens. They definitely would need the buff, since the split would powercreep the existing battleships quite a bit, putting a Montana equivalent of firepower at t8.

*I also think that if Italian BBs ever make it in game, they should get at least SAP, and hopefully a smoke like Venezia's too

Edited by MrTurtle49
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there isnt anything wrong with murican BB they arent the strongest and they are not the weakest they are just right.

georgia and massa are essentially the top BB for their tiers.

montana had the very good legendary mod and being able to tank a ton of damage but for some reason wargaming decided to nerf it.

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The Americans used to have a gimmick called “God Tier AA”, shared among their cruiser lines. Alas, they have been “balanced” with the CV and AA overhaul, so now they only have their Super Heavy shells to ensure their broadside alpha strike is still worth something. Until Tier VIII, they also have the unique speed disadvantage that if a div took the time to hone their sailing, could bring to light just why the American BB line was known as the “Standards”, with their uniform speeds and steering. Unfortunately due to the passage of time and a need to introduce new, exciting differences between the BBs of the nations, America has become the tired but true workhorse with nothing truly spectacular, but with reliable numbers. While some nations rely on their gimmicks to truly be effective: Russia with their balans gunnery and armor, Germany with their secondaries and armor schemes, Britain with their heals and HE, France with their speed and unique gun caliber and placement, etc. America has enough guns to hurt whomever they face, enough AA to make them fairly unappetizing to CVs, and decent enough handling to dodge what they can’t tank. While the other nations are becoming renowned for their gimmicks, America still stands unaided.

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they have the 2nd best heal in the game besides the super heal of the UK line at T9-T10. The US BBs get improved heal from T5(?) and up. So they do have some advantages over other line, just that in the mid-tiers those don't really offset their god-awful speed and poor armor.

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USN BBs do have an improved repair party compared to other BBs (besides the British, and their citadels are generally far better protected than the British.) They're generally the most balanced, jack-of-all-trades BBs for their tier in the game, even after years of powercreep. There's almost nothing they do better than everyone else, but there's also nothing they generally do worse than everyone else (other than their absurdly low speed at t7 and below.)

When played right, USN BBs are monstrous. 

Edited by poeticmotion

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The big problem with the US BB line, and one that won't really be changed with the new ones, is that the Tier 9 Georgia better than the tech tree ships.

Just save up Coal and get one, and you can spend your time on an entirely different line of ships.

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11 hours ago, MrTurtle49 said:

French- spood beast

German- hydro/secondaries

British- godly HE

Japanese- Overmatch, armor and sigma

Russians- Balans (HP pool/tankiness)

Americans- ...?

Hard to take this list seriously when you fail to mention things or misrepresent things.  French BBs have the worst dispersion of any tech tree BBs.  The British, and even more so the French, are covered in 32mm plating and thus are eaten alive by HE spam.  You credit the Japanese line for overmatch, which is a feature of a single ship (Yamato), armor when their armor is generally poor and sigma when, again, it is a feature of only Yamato.  

While doing that you ignore features of American BBs such as the improved heal, longer range in most cases, longer DC immunity period (20 seconds compared to 15 for most and 10 for Japanese and Russian BBs) and thicker deck plating on higher tier ships to resist HE spam.

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The Americans are very 'jack of all trades, master of none' kind of deal when it comes to guns an armour. However they do have a longer lasting repair party than other BBs (I believe its 20 seconds for US vs 10 seconds for everyone else), a slightly improved heal but not the british super heal.

They're fine BUT I found that I just could not gets to grips with the NorCal, sure she was stock but it felt like those slow shells really threw off my aim and when I did hit, I didn't seem to deal decent damage. Maybe once she was fully upgraded she'd be an ok ship but stock I just could not get to grips with her. That isn't to say she's bad, she's bad FOR ME.

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11 hours ago, ITZ_ACE_BABY said:

there isnt anything wrong with murican BB they arent the strongest and they are not the weakest they are just right.

georgia and massa are essentially the top BB for their tiers.

montana had the very good legendary mod and being able to tank a ton of damage but for some reason wargaming decided to nerf it.

correct me if im wrong, but havent the US BBs had the record for most damaging broadside since the game started? first was Montana, then i think Ohio took the title from her, and soon Vermont will laugh at both with 12 USN 18" guns, i love the USN BBs, and not just because im American, they can do just about every job thats asked of them BB wise and they look beautiful while doing it, i remember Montana being my first goal in this game, and eventually she became my first T10, im planning on getting her perma camo if Pommern ends up being a better Tirpitz

Edited by tcbaker777

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Other than Standard speed and secondaries on the tech tree ships, the USN BBs aren't just "jack of all trades," with nothing below average. There is no aspect of them that is below "pretty good."

 

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11 hours ago, MrTurtle49 said:

French- spood beast

But have worst dispersion among BBs in the game

11 hours ago, MrTurtle49 said:

German- hydro/secondaries

Forgot to mention Mass, Georgia, and Ohio do secondaries better

11 hours ago, MrTurtle49 said:

British- godly HE

With poor Survivability and AP

11 hours ago, MrTurtle49 said:

Japanese- Overmatch, armor and sigma

Only applies to 3 Japanese BBs, and only if angled

11 hours ago, MrTurtle49 said:

Americans- ...?

Decent range, Great alpha strike, improved heal, hard to find citadels, resistant to HE, and good gun consistency from T7-10  

Also, giving improved auto bounce angles to battleship grade weaponry is asking to be insanely OP unless every other aspect of the ship is complete garbage.

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46 minutes ago, Helstrem said:

Hard to take this list seriously when you fail to mention things or misrepresent things.  French BBs have the worst dispersion of any tech tree BBs.  The British, and even more so the French, are covered in 32mm plating and thus are eaten alive by HE spam.  You credit the Japanese line for overmatch, which is a feature of a single ship (Yamato), armor when their armor is generally poor and sigma when, again, it is a feature of only Yamato.  

While doing that you ignore features of American BBs such as the improved heal, longer range in most cases, longer DC immunity period (20 seconds compared to 15 for most and 10 for Japanese and Russian BBs) and thicker deck plating on higher tier ships to resist HE spam.

^This

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1 hour ago, Yandere_Roon said:

The Americans are very 'jack of all trades, master of none' kind of deal when it comes to guns an armour. However they do have a longer lasting repair party than other BBs (I believe its 20 seconds for US vs 10 seconds for everyone else), a slightly improved heal but not the british super heal.

They're fine BUT I found that I just could not gets to grips with the NorCal, sure she was stock but it felt like those slow shells really threw off my aim and when I did hit, I didn't seem to deal decent damage. Maybe once she was fully upgraded she'd be an ok ship but stock I just could not get to grips with her. That isn't to say she's bad, she's bad FOR ME.

NC's enormous range especially with that spotter plane is actually a binary test to see if a player understands USN peak engagement envelops. I too struggled at first with NC's floaty AP shells, but after I stopped trying to engage everything beyond 15km (unless it is a squatting Yammy asking for some early health removal), NC's salvos proved legendary as if her shells have citadel seekers on their tips. I also learned the spotter plane's true ability is to show me shots against island camping cruisers who think themselves safe because of some silly rocks.  I have the Georgia, I think in some games I'd actually take the 3 extra rifles on the NC, than Georgia's big random overpen generators, but if a bunch of cruisers are pushing with a BB against me, my Georgia shines like a oiled up peach on a hot summer day.   

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STOP the power creep.

No more "Buff's", if something is imbalanced, nerf it to bring it into balance. (Reverse the power creep)

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The Monty is very good ship.  I really enjoy having 12 barrels of freedom.  Once you understand how to aim and position she can be beastly.   The thing I like about Monty is she is a classic battleship. She has good AP and good armor.  She is capable of taking map positions.  Love the spotter plane for smokers. Monty really excels in longer games.    Its one of my favorite ships.

Edited by Rothgar_57

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I was never a BB fan until I received the Mass in a Christmas container. I still wasn’t a fan until I noticed how great the secondaries are. Now it’s one of my favorite ships to play. 

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On 7/20/2020 at 11:34 AM, Helstrem said:

Hard to take this list seriously when you fail to mention things or misrepresent things.  French BBs have the worst dispersion of any tech tree BBs.  The British, and even more so the French, are covered in 32mm plating and thus are eaten alive by HE spam.  You credit the Japanese line for overmatch, which is a feature of a single ship (Yamato), armor when their armor is generally poor and sigma when, again, it is a feature of only Yamato.  

While doing that you ignore features of American BBs such as the improved heal, longer range in most cases, longer DC immunity period (20 seconds compared to 15 for most and 10 for Japanese and Russian BBs) and thicker deck plating on higher tier ships to resist HE spam.

This is the truth.  Whoever downvoted your post didn't like facts.

 

You also forgot to mention that tech tree USN BBs got their rudder shifts improved.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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The new slow US battleship line should (should) continue the American 38mm deck armor (or better) scheme at the very least.  HE spam resistance sounds like it would be a mandatory thing for such slow ships in a HE spammer rich environment.

Edited by ithekro

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Just now, ithekro said:

The new slow US battleship line should (should) continue the American 38mm deck armor (or better) scheme at the very least.  HE spam resistance sounds like it would be a mandatory thing for such slow ships in a HE spammer rich environment.

Hopefully that is added once they are in testing.

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On 7/20/2020 at 2:34 PM, Helstrem said:

French BBs have the worst dispersion of any tech tree BBs.

now, is this before or AFTER the buff to German BBs to have USN/RN dispersion?

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Just now, tcbaker777 said:

now, is this before or AFTER the buff to German BBs to have USN/RN dispersion?

Now obviously.  German and French BBs used to have the same dispersion. Italian BBs also have it, but there isn't an Italian BB tech tree yet.

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7 hours ago, Helstrem said:

Now obviously.  German and French BBs used to have the same dispersion. Italian BBs also have it, but there isn't an Italian BB tech tree yet.

Yes.  Richeleiu is a maddening ship sometimes because of that dispersion.  Alsace and Lyon try to make up for it by having a sh**-ton of guns.  Jean Bart has the same trash dispersion but has good reload backed up by reload booster.  Republique has fantastic 430mm shell performance and great reload, but her accuracy is trash.  If she didn't have that fast reload, the ship IMO would have been beyond salvation.

 

Roma of course can't be relied on for sh*t.  She struggles to hit anything, but the funny part is that's historical for these guns.

http://navweaps.com/Weapons/WNIT_15-50_m1934.php

"The Model 1934 was extremely accurate and was able to deliver very consistent and predictable patterns with devastating hitting power - with the ammunition used for trials. Unfortunately, the materials and supply process in Italy works differently than it does in most other countries. In the U.S., for example, if one wished to test a sample of 16" shells, they might pull an example from stock, and inspect it directly. In Italy, the firm producing the equipment would have the advantage of providing the item for test, thereby possibly delivering an example which would be of atypically good quality with respect to serialized units. This was the problem with the Model 1934 - the firms producing the ammunition did not all produce projectiles of proper quality. [Admiral Angelo] Iachino complained about this in post-war books. Some actions showed a run of good projectiles, where others were plagued by terribly bad examples. Possibly the greatest contrast was seen between the shooting of Littorio in the first battle of Sirte Gulf and that of Vittorio Veneto in the 28 March Guado encounter. Despite the fact that Littorio was shooting at targets 32,000 yards away while Veneto was attacking at first Orion and afterwards Gloucester at only 24,000 yards, the Littorio's shot groups were significantly more consistent, despite the greater range, doubtlessly owing to a batch of properly fabricated 381-mm projectiles." - Comments by Maurizio Di Sciullo

 

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9 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

This is the truth.  Whoever downvoted your post didn't like facts.

You also forgot to mention that tech tree USN BBs got their rudder shifts improved.

I've recently finished the Japanese, German, American, and about 30k XP away from finishing the Russian BB line, of which the last three (KMS, USN, and RedPaperNavy) were for Research Bureau so they were the second time total I've played the line.  Of those four, I still think the American BB line is the weakest.  I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the USN BB's don't really have anything that players can regularly rely on to win games.  For instance,

  • If you're a good marksman, you'll be terrifying playing IJN BB's.  I know I was!
  • Red Paper Navy BB's really reward players who take up good positioning and angling. 
  • I do think German BB's are pretty awful (the premium ship "model" they follow is much more balanced imho), but if I can get close to you in one, it's a whole different story.

The Americans?  Yes, their heal is better and the ships are generally more responsive, but you don't have the IJN's artillery performance, you don't have the Russian armor or firing angles, and your ships certainly don't turn into the incredible hulk when engaging in close quarter combat (assuming there aren't four other enemy ships around to rob you of your glory moment).  And their superior AA performance, while nice, is largely meaningless to me because the most effective counter-strategy to CV's is frustrating their time management, not their resource management.

Like the Germans, the American "premium model" that you find in the Massachusetts and Georgia is a much more fun, engaging, and reliable model to make plays in.

I do love the Montana though.  Best ship of the line, by far.

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Power creep has hit New Mexico, Colorado, Iowa, and Montana pretty hard. USN BB premiums with the exception of California are way better.

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