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Toxygene

Will Radar be re-designed to work as intended?

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Are there any indications from WG that they at some point will re-design radar to only spot what can be seen by radar? (no x-ray/see through islands etc). I searched for it, but could find anything on this. Question also applies to hydroacoustic search.

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Just now, Toxygene said:

Are there any indications from WG that they at some point will re-design radar to only spot what can be seen by radar? (no x-ray/see through islands etc). I searched for it, but could find anything on this. Question also applies to hydroacoustic search.

It will not be.  They say they tested it in house and it did not work from a gameplay standpoint.

I have repeatedly explained why it won't work without other significant changes in addition to not penetrating islands.

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They would have to do far more than redesign the current incarnations of both radar & hydro as all they do is increase the assured detection range. They would need a completely new way of making them work. The delay for others to use the information did hamstring radar quite a bit giving the ship on the receiving end time to get out of Dodge before the rain of terror from multiple ships comes down.

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35 minutes ago, Toxygene said:

Are there any indications from WG that they at some point will re-design radar to only spot what can be seen by radar? (no x-ray/see through islands etc). I searched for it, but could find anything on this. Question also applies to hydroacoustic search.

As soon as they redesign torpedoes to work as intended. 

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If you sit down to design such a system, it sounds easy... until you realize you'd need to incorporate radar's line of sight. Logically though, it doesn't look like it would be impossible. It would add some overhead - but then again, the overhead would only occur when the radar was activated. If if was excessive, they could explain an initial few seconds' delay as "those old-style radio tubes warming up". 

Reality is they are fine with it as is. 

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This would be a huge nerf to all hydro and radar ships if they made it not work around islands, requiring several lines to be reworked (USN especially).  Not sure they are willing to change the game that drastically even if they could.

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Can we at least get rid of the guaranteed 2 km spotting distance through islands. That is such a dumb mechanic

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Just now, Herr_Reitz said:

If you sit down to design such a system, it sounds easy... until you realize you'd need to incorporate radar's line of sight. Logically though, it doesn't look like it would be impossible. It would add some overhead - but then again, the overhead would only occur when the radar was activated. If if was excessive, they could explain an initial few seconds' delay as "those old-style radio tubes warming up". 

Reality is they are fine with it as is. 

The real question is, is radar in it's current form doing what WG wants it to? I'm going to guess, yes, or they would have changed it.

WG doesn't want DD's to camp behind an island, just to pop out and go "Surprise! You're Dead!" with an unavoidable torpedo salvo to any ship that happens to come around.

It's not just meant to flush DD's out of smoke.

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10 minutes ago, Old_Baldy_One said:

This would be a huge nerf to all hydro and radar ships if they made it not work around islands, requiring several lines to be reworked (USN especially).  Not sure they are willing to change the game that drastically even if they could.

Not really. Us ships are good even without radar, and the only thing that could be balanced is radar itself: increase range or duration to compensate are easy to do.

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5 minutes ago, Y_Nagato said:

Not really. Us ships are good even without radar, and the only thing that could be balanced is radar itself: increase range or duration to compensate are easy to do.

US ships have already been power creeped pretty well.  Their main gimmick of AA has taken a beating with the rework, and their secondary radar gimmick isnt theirs anymore.  A lot of the popularity they still have is because they are old, so lots of people have them, and they are US based so a lot of Americans play them.  Release the same ship lines today and they would be a joke with a possible exception of DM.

Making radar island proof would make the game worse in a few ways.  DD yolo rushes would be fairly common, and people camping behind islands would get even worse.

End of the world?  No.  But it would be a nerf to an already hurting line and a nerf to all hydro users.  DDs and island campers would rejoice thi5ugh of course.

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Radar working as intended? You mean, always on and with way longer range?

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8 minutes ago, Old_Baldy_One said:

US ships have already been power creeped pretty well.  Their main gimmick of AA has taken a beating with the rework, and their secondary radar gimmick isnt theirs anymore.  A lot of the popularity they still have is because they are old, so lots of people have them, and they are US based so a lot of Americans play them.  Release the same ship lines today and they would be a joke with a possible exception of DM.

Making radar island proof would make the game worse in a few ways.  DD yolo rushes would be fairly common, and people camping behind islands would get even worse.

End of the world?  No.  But it would be a nerf to an already hurting line and a nerf to all hydro users.  DDs and island campers would rejoice thi5ugh of course.

The only line that really powercrept them is the USSR lines. Outside of that, if it is true that both Us line have many stinkers, you still have some great ships like Baltimore, Des Moines, Cleveland and Worcester. And such nerf would also hit Russian, since they also use a lot the radar gimmick. It would even be worst for them since it would be harder to get the full range of their radar.

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WG won't fix it. They say it's too much work yet they won't compensate DD players enough to balance it. 

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1 hour ago, Toxygene said:

Are there any indications from WG that they at some point will re-design radar to only spot what can be seen by radar? (no x-ray/see through islands etc). I searched for it, but could find anything on this. Question also applies to hydroacoustic search.

They could but they won't.  Too many Radar hooked players would leave; and, after all of the DD players Radar screwed left, they can't afford another exodus......  Another large group of DD main's left Random and Ranked and play only COOP.

No, they want an arcade FFA style game; and, the era of WW2-esk LOS ship battles is gone for good.  Now, it's just a free-for-all with planes, and Radar and stomps all over the place.....  t

They could..........but, they won't.

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1 hour ago, Learux said:

Can we at least get rid of the guaranteed 2 km spotting distance through islands. That is such a dumb mechanic

That is the exact mechanic (in game called Assured Acquisition) that radar & hydro are just "extensions" of (as explained in the descriptions of them).

1 hour ago, Toxygene said:

Are there any indications from WG that they at some point will re-design radar to only spot what can be seen by radar? (no x-ray/see through islands etc). I searched for it, but could find anything on this. Question also applies to hydroacoustic search.

& Unfortunately it is a core mechanic that has been in the game since day 1.

1 hour ago, Y_Nagato said:

Not really. Us ships are good even without radar, and the only thing that could be balanced is radar itself: increase range or duration to compensate are easy to do.

Yes...range & duration are easy to change...the core mechanic...not so easy.

 

9 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

They could but they won't.

They could..........but, they won't.

Actually they can't w/out designing a whole new game from scratch...it truly is a core mechanic...not just a side addition added later.

Learux is 1 of the few players that actually has voiced a problem w/the 2km range basic Assured Acquisition...everybody else (through the years) seemed to be fine w/it while not even realizing hydro & radar were just extensions of it.

The main problem is not so much the range of hydro & radar but the fact they used those real world terms to describe them.

Complaints about the extended Assured Acquisition would probably have been much less & just attributed to, "oh... it's just a temporary extension of that mechanic until the consumable runs out...I get it" if they had just labeled them "Acquisition Extension" (hydro) "Advanced Acquisition Extension" (radar).

But because they gave them similar (but unfortunately not EXACT) IRL terminology the outrage will unfortunately never end...but also unfortunately the mechanic not only will not but can not go away because WoWS wouldn't be WoWS w/out it.

You can lobby for time cuts & range cuts & more delays (or even a name change) but the mechanic is hear to stay...just like it has been from the beginning.

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2 hours ago, Toxygene said:

Are there any indications from WG that they at some point will re-design radar to only spot what can be seen by radar? (no x-ray/see through islands etc).

No; it's working exactly as intended.  It has nothing to do with real world radar.

2 hours ago, Toxygene said:

Question also applies to hydroacoustic search.

No it doesn't; hydro doesn't require line of sight.  Can you hear someone in another room?

Players need to rethink what consumables are.  They are not analogous to real world technology.  They are magic spells.

Examples:


Damage Control Party - This is a "dispel status" or "cure" spell.  Nullifies DOT status effects.
Repair Party - Literally a heal spell.
Smoke Generator - Limited invisibility spell
Engine Boost - Time limited increase in agility
Main Battery Reload Booster - Time limited attack boost
Torpedo Reload Booster - Bypass attack cool-down
Hydroacoustic Search - short range counter to invisibility (reveal spell)
Defensive AA Fire - Defense boost against specific type of attack
Surveillance Radar - Longer range counter to invisibility (reveal spell)

 

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1 hour ago, Lert said:

Radar working as intended? You mean, always on and with way longer range?

Don't forget the British planes that had radar.

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23 minutes ago, littlejo1983 said:

Don't forget the British planes that had radar.

Even some Japanese planes had radar.  Radar was much more widespread than this game portrays. But yes, the Americans and British in particular had effective radar.

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3 hours ago, Toxygene said:

Are there any indications from WG that they at some point will re-design radar to only spot what can be seen by radar? (no x-ray/see through islands etc). I searched for it, but could find anything on this. Question also applies to hydroacoustic search.

Answer: No

Question: Why would WG change something working as designed?

You're right, radar couldn't see through mountains. But neither could DD's get withing 6km of a BB without being seen. And most warships had radar working 24/7.

 

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4 hours ago, Toxygene said:

Are there any indications from WG that they at some point will re-design radar to only spot what can be seen by radar? (no x-ray/see through islands etc). I searched for it, but could find anything on this. Question also applies to hydroacoustic search.

It is working as intended.

The game's radar was never innately designed and implemented as such.  Instead, it's a hacked proxy spotting mechanic with a user-prompted modifier, aka "radar".  Yes, it's that lazy.

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5 hours ago, Lert said:

You mean, always on and with way longer range?

That would actually be even better. And just because you can see something on a screen doesn't mean that your entire fleet can see the ship in real time with the naked eye. But I suppose that would be a different game.

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7 hours ago, Helstrem said:

They say they tested it in house and it did not work from a gameplay standpoint.

The said they tested it but couldn't get it to work, specifically obeying LOS rules.  Total rubbish.

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7 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

Actually they can't w/out designing a whole new game from scratch...it truly is a core mechanic...not just a side addition added later.ng.

Well, I'll never get access to their source code but I've done some work in that genre a while ago and have friends that are still involved.  Our guess says otherwise......  Coming from SIMs that used actual, rendered terrain and real world physics was complicated; but, Radar wasn't anymore difficult that LOS coincidence ranging or Laser targeting....  Here again, I haven't seen their code. 

You may be right that it would be less expensive to start over in a more advanced game engine.  But, simple changes would make Radar and Sonar less obtrusive and more historically aligned......  i.e. one ship=one acquisition with the Mini map getting a ghost for everyone not in LOS, in weapons range.  Or, give DD's chaff or Jamming..... 

I know that the dissimilar weapons ruin the game for me and that's why I'm in PVE: to not have to interact at all.....

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16 hours ago, Toxygene said:

Are there any indications from WG that they at some point will re-design radar to only spot what can be seen by radar? (no x-ray/see through islands etc). I searched for it, but could find anything on this. Question also applies to hydroacoustic search.

Are you a DD main? Because if you are, I sense an undeclared agenda.

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