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vikingno2

Match making suggestion

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Match Making is making the game experience worse, you guys have to balance this just a little. I would like to recommend that you make sure that the bottom 30% win rate percentage are split evenly across teams.  It happens too often now that all the one shall we say "still learning" are predominately on one side; twice this AM complete an utter blowouts.  One we only killed one ship, these where tier ten matches mind you, I killed a Daring.

Spread out the bottom evenly, at least attempt something to improve it.  You guy are starting to frustrate a pretty sizable chunk of your long time players who actually spend money on the game. I'm a fairly experienced player and I have observed what's been happening. I am not stating one offs or cherry picking a few games , there is a real issue that needs to be looked at.  Less time on German CVs , NO MORE Russian Cruisers please and a little more time on some of the general game function the better off the game would be.   

I can tell you right now, you better pray that a decent alternative to World of Warships doesn't get started.

 

P.S.A. my suggestion is not a all encompassing solution. Please try to be constructive if you have comment.  

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Blowouts are likely more of a function of the game having no respawns or comeback mechanics so once a snowball starts rolling it becomes progressively harder to stop.

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I understand the frustration and request for skill based matchmaking. One of my last games we had a carrier who just refused to spot destroyers and kept farming low tier battleships on one flank. The other carrier kept spotting our destroyers who were getting focus fired. After the loss I looked up both captains. Their CV had a 53% win rate while ours had a 32% win rate. It would have been nice if it was closer but I would think the problem would be longer queue times, at least that's always been one of the reasons commonly given. Also I'm sure there's some kind of issue trying to match teams up based solely on PR or WR. 

Personally, instead of skill based I was always a proponent of +1/-1 matchmaking so nobody had to fight two tiers higher or lower then themselves. Also, with divisions present they would only get into battles with other equal divisions on the opposing side. However, I am doubtful any of these changes will be taken seriously as it doesn't make them money. 

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I just want  the bottom third that all the rest can be left alone. I admit with CV it would be difficult due to the nature of the ship, and the much greater impact of a CV than any other ship in WoWs  

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25 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

Blowouts are likely more of a function of the game having no respawns or comeback mechanics so once a snowball starts rolling it becomes progressively harder to stop.

I think this notion has merit.

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23 minutes ago, Jolly_Rodgered said:

Also, with divisions present they would only get into battles with other equal divisions on the opposing side. 

I am all in for this ^^^ 

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10 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

I think this notion has merit.

 

35 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

Blowouts are likely more of a function of the game having no respawns or comeback mechanics so once a snowball starts rolling it becomes progressively harder to stop.

Yes some to a extent, but more and more I am seeing players that just don't have a clue about how to play their ship, what their consumables even are(using 10 K radar when nothing is even with in 20km of it) or just charge into 4 ship and play the next game.

  I played six games yesterday were we didn't even kill 3 ships I mean come on. I am talking repeatedly knowing about 2 minutes into a game its over and it just because of the "team" are blessed with.  I am attributing that to lack of experience and I don't give a crap attitude.  Which both, the majority of the time, link back to a win rate; again just want to balance out the ones that are still learning. This would also benefit the ones still learning by playing always with more experienced players and/or players that have discovered what works for them.

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Lots of us didn't have a clue when we first started.

Some of us learned.

Some people do devote themselves to getting better.  Some people feel that their fun is not derived from getting better, but from other criteria.

I don't have control over other people.
Do you?

Some situations turn out better than others.

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52 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

Blowouts are likely more of a function of the game having no respawns or comeback mechanics so once a snowball starts rolling it becomes progressively harder to stop.

Blowouts are guaranteed when there is no balance in the matchmaking process.  This idea is self evidently true.

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4 minutes ago, _HoJo_ said:

Blowouts are guaranteed when there is no balance in the matchmaking process.  This idea is self evidently true.

no they aren't since once a snowball starts rolling it becomes progressively harder to stop even if the players all had 100% win rates!

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48 minutes ago, vikingno2 said:

Match Making is making the game experience worse, you guys have to balance this just a little. I would like to recommend that you make sure that the bottom 30% win rate percentage are split evenly across teams.  It happens too often now that all the one shall we say "still learning" are predominately on one side; twice this AM complete an utter blowouts.  One we only killed one ship, these where tier ten matches mind you, I killed a Daring.

Spread out the bottom evenly, at least attempt something to improve it.  You guy are starting to frustrate a pretty sizable chunk of your long time players who actually spend money on the game. I'm a fairly experienced player and I have observed what's been happening. I am not stating one offs or cherry picking a few games , there is a real issue that needs to be looked at.  Less time on German CVs , NO MORE Russian Cruisers please and a little more time on some of the general game function the better off the game would be.   

I can tell you right now, you better pray that a decent alternative to World of Warships doesn't get started.

P.S.A. my suggestion is not a all encompassing solution. Please try to be constructive if you have comment.  

A great many of us know the game has a problem.  0ur host knows they have issues with their MM.  But, they can not fix it......  Why?  Because this is a simple arcade shooter.  Yes, a cooperative shooter at that but, it's not a competitive shooter by any means.   It isn't designed to be competitive at all.  Yes, there are people that really believe this is a skill based game because they've "figured out" the exploits that produce "value"......and yet, the game itself isn't skill based at all !  You literally can buy your way in at tier 10.  Or, just premium ships.  I know a few that have and ONLY play premium ships.  

The game MM is a simple 1D matching class algorithm.  It depends on a "random distribution of skill" to balance the ship selections.  The 68.2% in the middle and the 27.4% on both side of it make the game work and stomps that do occur are more of an issue of "cascading errors...."   Once the average players stop playing, leave the game or change their tier levels of play DOWNWARD, usually to avoid a disruption in the status quo (gimmick sales, meta changes, or quality changes) the game MM starts to implode because you end up with veterans playing newer players.......   As the "skill disparities" increase, the stomps increase and that drives even more players to leave....or, move down, which drives off even more new players......   This is a normal behavior in simple arcade shooting games and even some more complex games that are skill based.....

Solution:  none.  Costs are too great to convert an already messed up population skill densities.   So, many games go full arcade shooter and sell everything as the original content with high expectations of quality slowly because a parody of the original goals of the game.....

55 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

Blowouts are likely more of a function of the game having no respawns or comeback mechanics so once a snowball starts rolling it becomes progressively harder to stop.

No.  Blow outs are a function of large skill disparities.  A good example was in a ranked battle a little while ago where on team had advanced players and the other team had grade school children whom were asking in chat what keys did what....  Those kids were playing on their parents/grand parents accounts....  I was on their team and recognized a game name whom is quite skilled stuck on an Island and I asked him what in the heck happened.....?  He lives down the street from me.  The answer was that "Pop pop is letting me use his ships"..........  My Grand son was in that game as well cause his/this "posse" of kids were playing and he/they were bored with "Blitz"......  They are no longer playing:  all eight of them.

No.  Snowballs, stomps and massacres are functions of large skill holes in the population.   Nothing can fix that.  Only time can heal it somewhat as low skill players get better.............and, even that fails because the Vet's simply move down tier to farm where the "value is easiest to recover"...... 

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39 minutes ago, Mudd_H_F__XX said:

@vikingno2 Good luck with getting WG to make the game exactly to suit you! By the way MM does not look at any player stats and hopefully never will.

If the NFL, NBA and other professional team sports had this attitude, there would be no reason to play or watch professional sports.  If the local junior college football squad played Notre Dame it wouldn't be worth watching except for the ludicrous hilarity of the mismatch.  That's what you're suggesting is a better option?  Giv me a break.

Parity is an essential ingredient in competitive sports and gaming.

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43 minutes ago, Mudd_H_F__XX said:

no they aren't since once a snowball starts rolling it becomes progressively harder to stop even if the players all had 100% win rates!

You should take note that I didn't disagree with what you were saying.  I simply added another statement that is unquestionably true.  The reality of the "snowball effect" is greatly exacerbated by the complete lack of balance in matchmaking.  Disagree if you hate logic.

Edited by _HoJo_

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51 minutes ago, _HoJo_ said:

Blowouts are guaranteed when there is no balance in the matchmaking process.  This idea is self evidently true.

No.

Quote

If the NFL, NBA and other professional team sports had this attitude, there would be no reason to play or watch professional sports.

Money rules pro sports. This includes who has teams, who gets the top players, coaches, etc. While WG loves for you to spend, it has nothing to do with which team you are on. In fact the closes thing to a team vs team event in this game is CB. The point is you can't compare the two.

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1 hour ago, Jolly_Rodgered said:

I understand the frustration and request for skill based matchmaking. One of my last games we had a carrier who just refused to spot destroyers and kept farming low tier battleships on one flank. The other carrier kept spotting our destroyers who were getting focus fired. After the loss I looked up both captains. Their CV had a 53% win rate while ours had a 32% win rate. It would have been nice if it was closer but I would think the problem would be longer queue times, at least that's always been one of the reasons commonly given. Also I'm sure there's some kind of issue trying to match teams up based solely on PR or WR. 

Personally, instead of skill based I was always a proponent of +1/-1 matchmaking so nobody had to fight two tiers higher or lower then themselves. Also, with divisions present they would only get into battles with other equal divisions on the opposing side. However, I am doubtful any of these changes will be taken seriously as it doesn't make them money. 

I wish the notion that large skill gap checks would increase queue times would be thoroughly debunked.  It is 100% possible to do it in way that has no increase in wait times.

While A change to + -1 match making would help with the power gap between tiers, it would do nothing to help the large skill disparities that occur in around one third of games.  

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Even amongst teams of similar skills. blowouts are still common due to the snowball. Would they be lessened by trying to balance skill levels between teams? Probably some, but not enough to be worth the queue troubles with trying to match up even more variables beyond what MM already has to chew on due in part to the population of the game.

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2 hours ago, _HoJo_ said:

Disagree if you hate logic.

Yes I disagree! Now round up 18 to 24 of your so called highest skilled player friends. Go to a training room and fight 100 battles. See how many are snowball effect blowouts and how few are 1 for 1 kills until the end! 

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6 hours ago, Mudd_H_F__XX said:

@vikingno2 Good luck with getting WG to make the game exactly to suit you! By the way MM does not look at any player stats and hopefully never will.

So you personally attack me, I stated what I observed stated what I though would help. Then stated that what I suggested wouldn't solve everything and was hoping for constructive feed back. You come back that I am asking for WG just to make the game suit me.   I know that MM doesn't look at stats that's why I suggested it should! 

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Guys,

It came to our attention that this post going down hill if forum guideline are not followed. Please keep it civil in the replies. Players are entitled to their own opinion and able to express here, so that game developers can gather feedback, but it become tedious if the replies are just personal attack/respond. 

Please do not make a hotly debate topic get lock away.

 

regards,

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Another MM thread, say it ain't so....

The same logic process should also apply, if you lose, you should complain about MM till our eyes bleed. If you win you should Compliment MM till our eyes bleed.

Yet, People just dont complain/compliment  about MM when they're winning... Go figure...

As the statisticians how pointed out on numerous threads about complaints to MM.  Power creep is the root cause of MM problems, its not MM that is the problem, its the "fall guy."

No matter what WG does to MM..

  • +2 MM for Randoms
  • Some tier MM for CB and Ranked
  • Mirror MM for the Kindergarten mod of Co-op.

No one will be happy with MM... Now, today's MM is way better then when the game was in beta or Alpha test stages.

Implementing SBMM is the worse idea for the game and luckily, WG knows it..

Edited by Navalpride33

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I was asking to improve MM, I think spreading out either low win percentage or number so battle players would help. Instead of having them mostly on one side.

You state that MM is just a fall guy and nothing can be done about it then in the same very post say it way better now than it used to be. So I guess that someone did something to make it better?  But how can that be if you can do anything to make it better?

"Implementing SBMM is the worse idea for the game and luckily, WG knows it.."  Really how? Tell me how it makes it worse! Please don't go to the mythical que time increase.  Many keep saying it will mess up MMing,  but know one has stated why it would be worse. 

 

I am not just complain I have been on the winning side of these blow outs often and they are now fun either. Its not about happy its about improvement.

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8 minutes ago, vikingno2 said:

Please don't go to the mythical que time increase.  Many keep saying it will mess up MMing,  but know one has stated why it would be worse. 

This ^^^is one...Queue times will increase especially at off peak times... That is why we have bots at tier 5 and below now.

  • SBMM will not filter out the "human element" in battles
    • By this I mean, human errors in a match.
    • It will not change how people will play (lemming train, Conga line to one side)
    • It will not change ships disappearing in the first 8 mins of the match
    • It will not stop people from DMG farming for the loss
    • It will not change the mentality of "win harder"
  • SBMM will only change our current MM to upto %5 in certain clients... Its not worth it.
  • SBMM will not fix the "snowball affect"
  • SBMM will not fix the "Blowouts"
  • SBMM based on more parameters (other then just ship tier), will be like a guy saying I am "saving" myself for the right girl.. The "right girl" is a myth, all girls are right for you. Your Parameters are just to complicated in order for a girl to match. Its the same concept.
16 minutes ago, vikingno2 said:

You state that MM is just a fall guy and nothing can be done about it then in the same very post say it way better now than it used to be. So I guess that someone did something to make it better?  But how can that be if you can do anything to make it better?

When I stated MM is better now then when it was in alpha or beta... I was referring to a time in where tier 4 ships use to see tier 10BBs

OR you had one side with a CV and the other side had none.

OR when both sides had unequal number of ships.

So yes they did improve it that way... But, the

  • +2 MM for Randoms
  • Some tier MM for CB and Ranked
  • Mirror MM for the Kindergarten mod of Co-op.

Had nothing to do with skill, it had everything to do with the power creep of ships within these tiers in these game mods.

 

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7 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

This ^^^is one...Queue times will increase especially at off peak times... That is why we have bots at tier 5 and below now.

  • SBMM will not filter out the "human element" in battles
    • By this I mean, human errors in a match.
    • It will not change how people will play (lemming train, Conga line to one side)
    • It will not change ships disappearing in the first 8 mins of the match
    • It will not stop people from DMG farming for the loss
    • It will not change the mentality of "win harder"
  • SBMM will only change our current MM to upto %5 in certain clients... Its not worth it.
  • SBMM will not fix the "snowball affect"
  • SBMM will not fix the "Blowouts"
  • SBMM based on more parameters (other then just ship tier), will be like a guy saying I am "saving" myself for the right girl.. The "right girl" is a myth, all girls are right for you. Your Parameters are just to complicated in order for a girl to match. Its the same concept.

When I stated MM is better now then when it was in alpha or beta... I was referring to a time in where tier 4 ships use to see tier 10BBs

OR you had one side with a CV and the other side had none.

OR when both sides had unequal number of ships.

So yes they did improve it that way... But, the

  • +2 MM for Randoms
  • Some tier MM for CB and Ranked
  • Mirror MM for the Kindergarten mod of Co-op.

Had nothing to do with skill, it had everything to do with the power creep of ships within these tiers in these game mods.

 

SBMM will not filter out the "human element" in battles------------don't want to , never said that it was the intent. Enjoyment is a human element as well

  • By this I mean, human errors in a match.
  • It will not change how people will play (lemming train, Conga line to one side)  _______    (But will even out those players to have them both sides, since many who do that have a low winning percentage.)
  • It will not change ships disappearing in the first 8 mins of the match___________ See above
  • It will not stop people from DMG farming for the loss __________See above
  • It will not change the mentality of "win harder" ________________See above
  • SBMM will only change our current MM to upto %5 in certain clients... Its not worth it. ----------------In your opinion, with no fact to back that up;  the low tier bots is to make up for the lack of player base at those tiers.  
  • SBMM will not fix the "snowball affect"---------------------------- Never said fix, wanted to improvement
  • SBMM will not fix the "Blowouts"------------------------Never said fix want reduce some
  • SBMM based on more parameters (other then just ship tier), will be like a guy saying I am "saving" myself for the right girl.. The "right girl" is a myth, all girls are right for you. Your Parameters are just to complicated in order for a girl to match. Its the same concept. -------------------------- It sure the hell is not, just spread out the bottom third of the group. Your analogy doesn't work with 12 vs 12

 

So yes they did improve it that way... But, the

  • +2 MM for Randoms
  • Some tier MM for CB and Ranked
  • Mirror MM for the Kindergarten mod of Co-op.

Had nothing to do with skill, it had everything to do with the power creep of ships within these tiers in these game mods.  ----------------So great they did something and it helped, your only real objection is because some skill base is suggested in match making it that it is not perfect it shouldn't be even tired due to its lack of perfection.  Why not put it on a test server and try?  

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3 minutes ago, vikingno2 said:

your only real objection is because some skill base is suggested in match making it that it is not perfect it shouldn't be even tired due to its lack of perfection.  Why not put it on a test server and try?   

My objection to SBMM, it has been the death of any game in which it was implemented. That is why WG will not instill any SBMM ideas into the game.

  • ITs not MM that is the problem.
  • Power creep will end the game faster then any type of MM in consideration or in use

SBMM is not the solution you think it is... Putting it in PTS is a terrible idea...

WG got this far without SBMM, but it will be the end of it because of power creep.

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