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gbgentry

The true reason people hate CVs: They’re too hard to play well

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I’m getting tired of all the constant CV nerfs, such as the upcoming reticle change for attack craft.  It’s finally time to admit the reason why people whine & complain about CVs to the point where WG feels obligated to make changes in the (hopeless) attempt to make these people happy - CVs are too much work for them to play effectively. CV is the only ship where you can’t be lazy and play well.

To be a good player, you have to spend some time outside the game learning & you have to actively pay attention to the game during it. The information needed to be a good player isn’t going to fall in to your lap; You have to seek it. Other classes? If you can see them & they’re in range, you can attack. Not so with CVs. Other classes need to know their pen values but it’s not really a cause for too much worry with equal-or-lesser classes. CVs? Whole nother ball game. First, you need to know your pen values & torp speeds. More importantly, though, you also have to know the relative armor & deck values of every nation and class that you could match against. Choose wrong and your attack is fairly pointless.

Secondly, no one else has multiple features designed to stop them attacking. Sure, you might be getting shot at but they’re likely within your range too. CVs? To start with, each ship has AA that can kill your planes & prevent your attack before it happens. At worst, it’s giving a couple extra vital seconds to evade.   No one else has to face a feature actively-designed to limit or outright stop their attack before it starts.  Moreover, there are some AA ships that you know you just won’t be able to touch early. Think, for example, a DD who wonders upon a BB early is afraid to fire at it?

Not only that, but fighters can be placed between you & the target (be it ship-based or squadron drop) that can stop your attack before it even begins. They move at boosted speed so, if you want to risk it, you need to know if you can be fast enough to have a chance at a successful strike. Other classes? If there’s something non-island between you and your target, nothing is stopping you from just firing over it at them.

What do other classes think when they see a group of 2 or more ships? Buffet time! CVs? ...Let’s see who else is out there. Other classes can go almost a whole game and pay minimal attention to the mini-map; Just stick with a group and pick a direction. CVs? You need to Constantly look at it to know potential targets, who needs support, positioning, what airgroup to use to hurt a potential target, potential threats, etc.

It’s perfectly fine to just be a casual other-class player and not want to mess with all of this. No problem. Good CV players, while it’s not RTS-level tasking any more, still have to focus on many things at once. You can’t just be “There’s a target. I’m out of his range so I’ll just lead & shoot”.

When it comes down to it, the reason why the base hates CVs is that CVs are too intellectual...

Edited by gbgentry
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CVs are mainly a nuisance on average where if your strong enough they can’t bother you until you are either greatly weakened from prolonged fighting or are in a weaker AA / HP ship that they can attack. I actually view CV aircraft more like vultures or something along those lines flying around overhead.

Like Jean Bart with my upgraded AA a smart CV player will not dare to bother me or else their planes will be dropping like flies. But after I have endured a lot of HE spamming that they saw happening over the course of a few minutes then their send the planes because they know my HP is reduced and my AA likely is greatly reduced.

Edited by Admiral_Thrawn_1
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Trolling or not; still truer than some might think.

Purples effectively traded Strafe and Manual attacks for AA dodging. Anyone else who couldn’t do the one before, and can’t do the other now, struggled or struggles with carriers.

Nothing has really changed; just the nature of the mechanics, and the exploits involved.

Edited by Estimated_Prophet
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A few thoughts, 1st most CCs do not like CVs , they make no attempt  of sounding objective. Name a couple CV main CCs , you can not. I am not gonna name them but you know which CCs consider themselves DD mains. Which class hates CVs the most? Which class does CVs contain the best? 2nd I post videos all the time showing me winning against CVs especially in my French destroyers who have the 2nd worst AA. And anyone wanting to see my stats in my tier 8 through tier 10 DDs are welcome to. Most my destroyers are winners no matter the tier . I prefer to have CVs in battle because I adjust better to them than most. My youtube channel Meta_Man2002 has lots of videos I display and beat CVs at their own games. CVs actually bring the top flight destroyer players back to the team and not let them go adventuring on their own like they used to. Another words not team play, but solo warrior mode.

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I'm tired of having my CV's nerfed as well.  I still miss my Zuiho, which was taken away during the "re-work".

It is more difficult to contribute to my team's survival if a CV's capabilities are nerfed.

I play all available ship types.

Each ship has virtues and quirks.  

Stomping the personality out of the ships is not the way to create variety and a vibrant and interesting game.

Edited by Wolfswetpaws
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55 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

CVs are mainly a nuisance on average where if your strong enough they can’t bother you until you are either greatly weakened from prolonged fighting or are in a weaker AA / HP ship that they can attack. I actually view CV aircraft more like vultures or something along those lines flying around overhead.

Like Jean Bart with my upgraded AA a smart CV player will not dare to bother me or else their planes will be dropping like flies. But after I have endured a lot of HE spamming that they saw happening over the course of a few minutes then their send the planes because they know my HP is reduced and my AA likely is greatly reduced.

Won't bother you, and even then not 100% of the time. There's a difference, and it's important, as sometimes you have to bother that full health AA ship, though it's usually best done by hopping over an island.

Still, you aren't wrong. We are carrion birds by nature. It's our primary mission to ensure ships can't limp away to lick their wounds, and its one of few things we do better than any other ship type.

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You are half right, playing a CV requires one to be able to use the minimap, which is clearly beyond the capabilities of most players. So it is a bit harder than say a BB or cruiser (I'm not sure about DDs, screw up in a DD and you're dead, screw up in a CV and you hit G and send in the next strike).

But the issue with CVs is if the CV player is competent (and it's not that high of a skill floor) there's a lot of situations where surface ships have zero counter play. Have you tried playing a DD in a match with a competent CV? 

Also, you argument doesn't make sense. People think CVs are too hard to play, so they want them nerfed? If that was the case they'd want them easier to play, which means buffed. CVs have a lot of problems, but to hard to play isn't one of them.

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2 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

You are half right, playing a CV requires one to be able to use the minimap, which is clearly beyond the capabilities of most players. So it is a bit harder than say a BB or cruiser (I'm not sure about DDs, screw up in a DD and you're dead, screw up in a CV and you hit G and send in the next strike).

But the issue with CVs is if the CV player is competent (and it's not that high of a skill floor) there's a lot of situations where surface ships have zero counter play. Have you tried playing a DD in a match with a competent CV? 

Also, you argument doesn't make sense. People think CVs are too hard to play, so they want them nerfed? If that was the case they'd want them easier to play, which means buffed. CVs have a lot of problems, but to hard to play isn't one of them.

I play cv and dd, my dds win fine with cv or no cv

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22 minutes ago, Shoggoth_pinup said:

Still, you aren't wrong. We are carrion birds by nature. It's our primary mission to ensure ships can't limp away to lick their wounds, and its one of few things we do better than any other ship type.

Wanted to post a Snoopy Vulture; but sadly no site that doesn’t disable crossposting.

Despite playing CVs myself, the vulturistic nature of their gameplay is what I hate about them; and is why I refuse to be a hypocrite by playing them in Randoms, and inflicting something I hate on other players.

20 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

CVs have a lot of problems, but to hard to play isn't one of them.

I, personally, would beg to differ.

RTS auto attacks were easy, (for me at least,) and manual attack and Strafe next to impossible, against anything but Co-op bots.

Somehow, if going from effectively the ‘point and click’ so many complained about, to a 100% manual system, where; coincidentally, you also have to dodge AA at the same time; is defined as ‘easier;’ then I, personally, fail to see how.

Edited by Estimated_Prophet
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10 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

I, personally, would beg to differ.

RTS auto attacks were easy, (for me at least,) and manual attack and Strafe next to impossible, against anything but Co-op bots.

Somehow, if going from effectively the ‘point and click’ so many complained about, to a 100% manual system, where; coincidentally, you also have to dodge AA at the same time; is defined as ‘easier;’ then I, personally, fail to see how.

RTS auto attacks were easy, but against anything but bots and unmoving players they were mostly ineffective. If you wanted to have any chance you had to cross drop, which meant the squadron management which wasn't easy. To be truly effective you had to manual drop and manage multiple squadrons.

Now sure, everything is manual. But it's pretty intuitive in terms of lining it up. DBs are really the only tricky one. AA dodging is a complication, but nothing compared to managing 5 squadrons at once. And while CVs aren't as powerful as they were, they're still very impactful on the game. So to have the same effect on the game now is much easier IMO than it was. I've started playing CV recently, and while I have a long way to do, I already have an effect. Old system you were either god or you were crap, there was no in between. Here, you can still be god and crap, but there's a lot of room inbetween now.

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I've noticed that as there is 2 (or sometimes 1) CV the other 10 (or 11) team players have an expectation that the CV will be there to support THEM (meaning Him or Her). 

 

  1. I want the CV to spot the side I'm on.   Otherwise I'll report for bad play
  2. I want the CV to drop friendly fighters on Me (tier 6 and above).  Otherwise I'll report for bad play
  3. I want the green CV to kill more ships than the red CV.  Otherwise I'll report for bad play
  4. I want the CV to move up with the team, and leave the failed flank when required.  Otherwise I'll report for bad play

I'd like to think most CV mains are on 0 karma, so at a guess karma is pointless.  Sure the examples above are extreme, and I'm only guessing.... and I've yet to play above tier 6   :Smile_sad:

IMHO WG can do a few things to fix this:

  1. Improve the CV vs CV play.  Same as what they did when there was too many stealth torp boats.  The addition of DD guns boats balanced out and now I don't see as many complaints as I used to (about torps being OP)
  2. If possible (and this will be hard) define what the role is.  e.g. everyone hates the DD at the back, or the yolo BB.  What is the CV supposed to do?  Which side to support when there is only one CV?  Not shooting/lighting the correct boat will also cause rage
    1. IMHO the rage is from having a support ship at the back farming damage.   Which means it's not a support ship, its something else, which generates alot of player agro from causing direct damage (and spotting) while sitting (generalisation) at the back not risking HP.  
    2. perhaps/m,aybe/if this could be achieved by limiting the range to 15-20km of the ship, improve the cam, and have the CV follow the fleet around the map.  TBH - I haven't thought about it until now. 
  3. I think adding friendly fighter drops to tier 4 CV would help.

 

I did like the OP's post about deck armour.  I hadn't thought about that. 

I've also heard they they (CV) don't a repair kit.  So how to manage fire and floods  :Smile_sceptic:

Final comment, different ships add variety and stuff, but too different probably belongs in another game (WOWP maybe).

 

Just my 30cents 

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26 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

RTS auto attacks were easy, but against anything but bots and unmoving players they were mostly ineffective. If you wanted to have any chance you had to cross drop, which meant the squadron management which wasn't easy. To be truly effective you had to manual drop and manage multiple squadrons.

Now sure, everything is manual. But it's pretty intuitive in terms of lining it up. DBs are really the only tricky one. AA dodging is a complication, but nothing compared to managing 5 squadrons at once. And while CVs aren't as powerful as they were, they're still very impactful on the game. So to have the same effect on the game now is much easier IMO than it was. I've started playing CV recently, and while I have a long way to do, I already have an effect. Old system you were either god or you were crap, there was no in between. Here, you can still be god and crap, but there's a lot of room inbetween now.

That’s just it; managing the squadrons didn’t really bother me, outside the higher tier IJN carriers.

I cross dropped with auto drops all the time; you just had to know how to use the attack adjustment tab to set your final approach angles after committing to your attack; a bit of kit which was also available to those using manual attacks.

Effectiveness was what you made of it. Bullying targets against terrain with feint attack to restrict their movement, then making and actual drop, or catching a long target inside their turn, and landing all six torps from a US torpedo squad drop, were all possible with autodrops.

I couldn’t really use manual attacks before, and I’m not very good at them now; certainly not when I have to dodge AA at the same time. Pretty much why I never bother using bombers. All they do is die, because I can’t line up drops without boring straight in to do so. Certainly not after crossing terrain, or dodging AA.

Edited by Estimated_Prophet

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12 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

That’s just it; managing the squadrons didn’t really bother me, outside the higher tier IJN carriers.

I cross dropped with auto drops all the time; you just had to know how to use the attack adjustment tab to set your final approach angles after committing to your attack; a bit of kit which was also available to those using manual attacks.

Effectiveness was what you made of it. Bullying targets against terrain with feint attack to restrict their movement, then making and actual drop, or catching a long target inside their turn, and landing all six torps from a US torpedo squad drop, were all possible with autodrops.

I couldn’t really use manual attacks before, and I’m not very good at them now; certainly not when I have to dodge AA at the same time. Pretty much why I never bother using bombers. All they do is die, because I can’t line up drops without boring straight in to do so. Certainly not after crossing terrain, or dodging AA.

Personal preference I guess. I never really tried the old CVs, by the time I was far enough into the game to start considering them we knew that they were going to get reworked, so I never really got into them. But the couple times I tried the point and click navigation interface was a lot, and got even worse with stacking and selecting squadrons to set up good drops. I'd prefer to be able to focus on one thing, even if I have to play that at a relatively high level. Also you still had to dodge AA back then, or more correctly you had to dodge ships, because fly into a Des Moines and your planes were gone, and unlike now, you couldn't just print new ones.

Still, judging from the increase in CV players, I think it's fair to say a lot of people find them easier than the RTS version, but everyone's different.

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3 hours ago, gbgentry said:

I’m getting tired of all the constant CV nerfs, such as the upcoming reticle change for attack craft.  It’s finally time to admit the reason why people whine & complain about CVs to the point where WG feels obligated to make changes in the (hopeless) attempt to make these people happy - CVs are too much work for them to play effectively. CV is the only ship where you can’t be lazy and play well.

To be a good player, you have to spend some time outside the game learning & you have to actively pay attention to the game during it. The information needed to be a good player isn’t going to fall in to your lap; You have to seek it. Other classes? If you can see them & they’re in range, you can attack. Not so with CVs. Other classes need to know their pen values but it’s not really a cause for too much worry with equal-or-lesser classes. CVs? Whole nother ball game. First, you need to know your pen values & torp speeds. More importantly, though, you also have to know the relative armor & deck values of every nation and class that you could match against. Choose wrong and your attack is fairly pointless.

Secondly, no one else has multiple features designed to stop them attacking. Sure, you might be getting shot at but they’re likely within your range too. CVs? To start with, each ship has AA that can kill your planes & prevent your attack before it happens. At worst, it’s giving a couple extra vital seconds to evade.   No one else has to face a feature actively-designed to limit or outright stop their attack before it starts.  Moreover, there are some AA ships that you know you just won’t be able to touch early. Think, for example, a DD who wonders upon a BB early is afraid to fire at it?

Not only that, but fighters can be placed between you & the target (be it ship-based or squadron drop) that can stop your attack before it even begins. They move at boosted speed so, if you want to risk it, you need to know if you can be fast enough to have a chance at a successful strike. Other classes? If there’s something non-island between you and your target, nothing is stopping you from just firing over it at them.

What do other classes think when they see a group of 2 or more ships? Buffet time! CVs? ...Let’s see who else is out there. Other classes can go almost a whole game and pay minimal attention to the mini-map; Just stick with a group and pick a direction. CVs? You need to Constantly look at it to know potential targets, who needs support, positioning, what airgroup to use to hurt a potential target, potential threats, etc.

It’s perfectly fine to just be a casual other-class player and not want to mess with all of this. No problem. Good CV players, while it’s not RTS-level tasking any more, still have to focus on many things at once. You can’t just be “There’s a target. I’m out of his range so I’ll just lead & shoot”.

When it comes down to it, the reason why the base hates CVs is that CVs are too intellectual...

  1. The spreadsheet disagrees with your distorted viewpoints.
  2. Nerfs to flood and torp DMG further discredit your view point.
  3. AA mechanic has been EXTREMELY generous to CV drivers..

In other words, CVs are the easiest class to play (next to BB play)... The aim of the rework to make CVs easy to play was accomplished...

The problem with the CV class.

  1. They're an utterly useless/worthless part of the fleet in terms of functionality, in a match to a fleet as a whole.
    • AND
  2. CV attacks are disproportionate because they're given, a very generous AA. In which, they can carry out continuous attacks on small targets without consequences.

Dont take my word for it... Flambass makes fun of the CV class all the time... Here is his recent contribution to the lols

CVs are just dont fit currently with the role WG gave them... Meanwhile, other ships get nerf to give way to their existence.

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29 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

Still, judging from the increase in CV players, I think it's fair to say a lot of people find them easier than the RTS version, but everyone's different.

Despite my weak skills, I enjoyed playing carriers. I think part of that was being able to overwatch the whole map, (the RTS interface, not purely with aircraft,) and ping to warn people of threats.

As well, carrier game play was slower paced than with ships; especially compared to now. Beside giving relief and time to do things to the Reds, time between strikes gave a carrier driver the chance to look over the map and make plans.

Don’t wanna be Richard Best bombing Akagi and Hiryu to bits; just Spruance, Mitscher, or Halsey in the CIC.

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1 hour ago, AJTP89 said:

 

Still, judging from the increase in CV players, I think it's fair to say a lot of people find them easier than the RTS version, but everyone's different.

I think in a few ways, they are easier.

There is no management of many CV squadrons now like there were in RTS.

And the guy on the red team can no longer turn you in to a giant shuffleboard table early in the match.  Even if you (not you) royally suck, you can derp around with 1 or 2 planes.

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1 hour ago, DrHolmes52 said:

I think in a few ways, they are easier.

There is no management of many CV squadrons now like there were in RTS.

And the guy on the red team can no longer turn you in to a giant shuffleboard table early in the match.  Even if you (not you) royally suck, you can derp around with 1 or 2 planes.

Yep.

What I've found is even as I'm still learning I can make DDs lives miserable. I'm still figuring out how to hit ships with AA, but I'm pretty good already at finding and keeping spotted DDs, and hitting them with rockets. And that right there is enough do a lot for the team. Even if I screw up and get a whole squadron deleted I can still cause trouble. I still consider myself a CV noob, pre-rework that would mean I was useless. Now it means I might not be the Eye of Sauron but I can still cause a lot of trouble.

I think the skill barrier for CVs did need to get lower, but I'm not sure the ceiling should have stayed so high.

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2 hours ago, Pebcac said:

 

  1. Improve the CV vs CV play.

RTS CV play was the way to go with this concept.

CV vs. CV now takes many successful attacks to make a dent in a CV's health pool.

I was pushing/herding a Shokaku around the map earlier tonight with my Graf Zeppelin.

Even though they were alone, their AA prevented me from hanging around for more than one aerial attack per squadron sortie.
So I had to make many sorties and still only managed to get their CV down to about 45% of it's original HP.

I wouldn't have had time to even do this much, if their team hadn't split and left the CV wide open and my team hadn't done such a good job of surviving and sinking enemy ships by themselves.

I've had CV vs. CV secondary gunnery battles on rare occasions.  Once the two CV hulls close to within AA range, getting planes off the deck involves the quick loss of planes.  

The old RTS mode was a great "chess match".  Multiple squadrons could scout the map at the same time.  Fighters could intercept enemy strike packages and attempt to shoot them down, in order to protect friendly ships and/or one's own CV.  Fighters would get locked into "furballs" with other fighters.  And a CV could coordinate a strike with every flyable squadron in participation with every plane dropping ordnance simultaneously for a torpedo cross-drop combined with a bomb run.  CV's could sink another CV if they caught one with their fighters too far away to make an intercept.  And all planes were vulnerable to AA and enemy fighters and tail-gunners actually worked and occasionally shot down enemy fighters.  And planes could not be replaced.  Once the ship's reserve squadrons in the hangar were used up, it was a de-planed CV.

But, not everyone was a fan of this more realistic CV play.
The "re-work" happened.

The CV environment became a pale imitation of world of warplanes and the Command of an Aircraft Carrier was dumbed down to the perspective of a chauffeur & a squadron-leader.

And still the nerfs keep coming.

I'm really weary of hearing people complain about CV's doing the job of a CV competently.

To those who complain, I say, "get gud".  Because they've already had their complaints acted upon and have proven that the complainers cannot be satisfied (in my opinion).

With the addition of CV's and Submarines, the game is now in three dimensions.  The energy spent on complaining could be better spent on learning to play better.

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2 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

RTS CV play was the way to go with this concept.

CV vs. CV now takes many successful attacks to make a dent in a CV's health pool.

I was pushing/herding a Shokaku around the map earlier tonight with my Graf Zeppelin.

Even though they were alone, their AA prevented me from hanging around for more than one aerial attack per squadron sortie.
So I had to make many sorties and still only managed to get their CV down to about 45% of it's original HP.

I wouldn't have had time to even do this much, if their team hadn't split and left the CV wide open and my team hadn't done such a good job of surviving and sinking enemy ships by themselves.

I've had CV vs. CV secondary gunnery battles on rare occasions.  Once the two CV hulls close to within AA range, getting planes off the deck involves the quick loss of planes.  

The old RTS mode was a great "chess match".  Multiple squadrons could scout the map at the same time.  Fighters could intercept enemy strike packages and attempt to shoot them down, in order to protect friendly ships and/or one's own CV.  Fighters would get locked into "furballs" with other fighters.  And a CV could coordinate a strike with every flyable squadron in participation with every plane dropping ordnance simultaneously for a torpedo cross-drop combined with a bomb run.  CV's could sink another CV if they caught one with their fighters too far away to make an intercept.  And all planes were vulnerable to AA and enemy fighters and tail-gunners actually worked and occasionally shot down enemy fighters.  And planes could not be replaced.  Once the ship's reserve squadrons in the hangar were used up, it was a de-planed CV.

But, not everyone was a fan of this more realistic CV play.
The "re-work" happened.

The CV environment became a pale imitation of world of warplanes and the Command of an Aircraft Carrier was dumbed down to the perspective of a chauffeur & a squadron-leader.

And still the nerfs keep coming.

I'm really weary of hearing people complain about CV's doing the job of a CV competently.

To those who complain, I say, "get gud".  Because they've already had their complaints acted upon and have proven that the complainers cannot be satisfied (in my opinion).

With the addition of CV's and Submarines, the game is now in three dimensions.  The energy spent on complaining could be better spent on learning to play better.

i find rts more a whole lot better than rework. you can do SO MUCH more than you ever could in rework. the only useful thing wg got out of rework was unlimited planes something that was sorely missed in rts.

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5 hours ago, Navalpride33 said:
  1. The spreadsheet disagrees with your distorted viewpoints.
  2. Nerfs to flood and torp DMG further discredit your view point.
  3. AA mechanic has been EXTREMELY generous to CV drivers..

In other words, CVs are the easiest class to play (next to BB play)... The aim of the rework to make CVs easy to play was accomplished...

The problem with the CV class.

  1. They're an utterly useless/worthless part of the fleet in terms of functionality, in a match to a fleet as a whole.
    • AND
  2. CV attacks are disproportionate because they're given, a very generous AA. In which, they can carry out continuous attacks on small targets without consequences.

Dont take my word for it... Flambass makes fun of the CV class all the time... Here is his recent contribution to the lols

CVs are just dont fit currently with the role WG gave them... Meanwhile, other ships get nerf to give way to their existence.

if it so easy than why are most cv player at t10 are only doing 40-50k max , it like 2x less than some BB  with MMM i rarely ever see anybody with more than 40-50k i could count on one hand the number of time where i saw a cv avg more than 100k , people stil lthink CV are easy to play, well to do good in them they arent they require ships knowledge of all the ships ....

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24 minutes ago, dad003 said:

if it so easy than why are most cv player at t10 are only doing 40-50k max

Simple math can answer your question...  IF you're doing 40k to 50k max at tier X in to day's patch... That would equal to (will use 50k as an example)...

An easy 135k in patch 8.0 before nerfs to

  • Floods
  • Arial torp DMG.
  • AA mechanic

Which is about avg then, so in all reality... 40k to 50k is about avg for todays patch (with all the nerfs and AA mechanics benefiting the CV drivers).

If you can do 50k in a CV in today's patch... That is a walk in the park... Very easy stroll compared to what other ship classes have to do for the same 135k DMG with todays nerfs, because OF the CVs.

That is 40k to 50k gaming on valium... That is how easy it is for tier X CV drivers... The only ship you have to avoid is the Holland, whoopti doo right :Smile_veryhappy:.


The other reason is to protect the BB drivers from planes, mainly TB planes.. At tier X, you have at least 5 BBs at 95k to 105k HP.  With WG taking TB DMG and Flood DMG out of the CVs abilities.

CVs cant sink a BB HP fast enough.. You can sink the HP of a small ship faster then a BB... It takes 50 TB hits to sink 1 BB... It takes 4 strike passes to sink a DD (6 for a Cruiser).

A CV driver was no longer able to make 500k DMG. (which would be about the 180k DMG range for todays patch).

If you're disappointed with DMG production in a CV, Send your complaints to ICHASE... His video "flying shimakazie" spare headed the changes I noted above.

GL

Edited by Navalpride33
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On 7/18/2020 at 6:36 PM, gbgentry said:

To be a good player, you have to spend some time outside the game learning & you have to actively pay attention to the game during it.

Exactly!  I spent hours and still spend hours in the Training room trying to figure out how to do real damage with a CV.  I never did that with any other class of ship.  Never once.  (I don't bother with dive bombers anymore after the nerf.  It's a waste of resources.)

 

On 7/18/2020 at 6:36 PM, gbgentry said:

No one else has to face a feature actively-designed to limit or outright stop their attack before it starts.  Moreover, there are some AA ships that you know you just won’t be able to touch early.

Again, you are right.  What would happen if phalanxes were mounted on tier 9 and 10 destroyers and cruisers with the ability to shoot down incoming BB shells before they hit?  This game would suddenly END, but it's ok to keep making it impossible for CV shells to land real hits on BBs.

I would love to see the reaction of Mr. Flamass as his BB shells are shot out of the sky by a phalanx before they hit a cruiser and delete it in one salvo, which is something he is so used to that he believes it is normal and good.

 

On 7/18/2020 at 6:36 PM, gbgentry said:

Not only that, but fighters can be placed between you & the target (be it ship-based or squadron drop) that can stop your attack before it even begins. They move at boosted speed so, if you want to risk it, you need to know if you can be fast enough to have a chance at a successful strike. Other classes? If there’s something non-island between you and your target, nothing is stopping you from just firing over it at them.

What if players had to aim and fire their own AA guns at incoming planes?  What if dual purpose guns could not be used for firing at other ships while simultaneously firing straight up at planes?  What if a player who launches fighter planes had to switch to those and pilot them themselves like a CV player does while pressing M to chart a course for his BB?

 

On 7/18/2020 at 6:36 PM, gbgentry said:

When it comes down to it, the reason why the base hates CVs is that CVs are too intellectual...

Yeah, and the fact that most players want the game to be exactly like World of Tanks, which is not a naval game, but  provides the underlying mechanics for WoW.  In World of Tanks, there are no P 51 tank busters flying around overhead.  There is no group of guys hiding in the bushes with a Panzerfaust.  In fact, there is nothing in that game that real tank crews had to worry about, and the 3-year-olds who play that game want WoW to be the same.

If you ask for something different, something historically accurate, something that makes the game a more dynamic naval game rather than just an island hugging, bow tanking in reverse sniper game, you WILL be trolled endlessly by those who don't want to learn anything different.

Edited by Nordlaender
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21 hours ago, Pebcac said:

I'd like to think most CV mains are on 0 karma, so at a guess karma is pointless.  Sure the examples above are extreme, and I'm only guessing.... and I've yet to play above tier 6   :Smile_sad:

Not that it's a lot but I was over 30 about 44 days ago and the better I got with a CV the faster I lost it. At this point I feel that a negative karma means I hacked someone off by nuking him..so Im ok with it.

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On 7/18/2020 at 5:36 PM, gbgentry said:

I’m getting tired of all the constant CV nerfs, such as the upcoming reticle change for attack craft.  It’s finally time to admit the reason why people whine & complain about CVs to the point where WG feels obligated to make changes in the (hopeless) attempt to make these people happy - CVs are too much work for them to play effectively. CV is the only ship where you can’t be lazy and play well.

To be a good player, you have to spend some time outside the game learning & you have to actively pay attention to the game during it. The information needed to be a good player isn’t going to fall in to your lap; You have to seek it. Other classes? If you can see them & they’re in range, you can attack. Not so with CVs. Other classes need to know their pen values but it’s not really a cause for too much worry with equal-or-lesser classes. CVs? Whole nother ball game. First, you need to know your pen values & torp speeds. More importantly, though, you also have to know the relative armor & deck values of every nation and class that you could match against. Choose wrong and your attack is fairly pointless.

Secondly, no one else has multiple features designed to stop them attacking. Sure, you might be getting shot at but they’re likely within your range too. CVs? To start with, each ship has AA that can kill your planes & prevent your attack before it happens. At worst, it’s giving a couple extra vital seconds to evade.   No one else has to face a feature actively-designed to limit or outright stop their attack before it starts.  Moreover, there are some AA ships that you know you just won’t be able to touch early. Think, for example, a DD who wonders upon a BB early is afraid to fire at it?

Not only that, but fighters can be placed between you & the target (be it ship-based or squadron drop) that can stop your attack before it even begins. They move at boosted speed so, if you want to risk it, you need to know if you can be fast enough to have a chance at a successful strike. Other classes? If there’s something non-island between you and your target, nothing is stopping you from just firing over it at them.

What do other classes think when they see a group of 2 or more ships? Buffet time! CVs? ...Let’s see who else is out there. Other classes can go almost a whole game and pay minimal attention to the mini-map; Just stick with a group and pick a direction. CVs? You need to Constantly look at it to know potential targets, who needs support, positioning, what airgroup to use to hurt a potential target, potential threats, etc.

It’s perfectly fine to just be a casual other-class player and not want to mess with all of this. No problem. Good CV players, while it’s not RTS-level tasking any more, still have to focus on many things at once. You can’t just be “There’s a target. I’m out of his range so I’ll just lead & shoot”.

When it comes down to it, the reason why the base hates CVs is that CVs are too intellectual...

Everything you have said SO FAR is right on point. You also have to worry about aircraft inventory. Other ships have an endless supply of shells and torpedoes. Contrary to popular belief, a  CVs planes are not endless, Every plane lost to AA or fighter squadrons takes time to service and replace. Lose too many at once and you are spending MINUTES waiting to get enough for a single attack run. Unlike BBs, The longest reload is what 30 SECONDS? Or even the torps on a DD are what 1 minute and 15 seconds? I do not see another ship in the game that everyone expects so much of as the CV. They want the CVs to spot, provide AA cover and kill all of the DDs on the map all at once. After all, "our ship isn't in the fight and is not in any real danger"!!!!!!. 

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