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BugsBunni

Conqueror and Thunderer

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I'm closing in on having enough coal to capture Thunderer.

I was hoping to get some feedback on the differences between her and Conqueror. I know she does not possess the monster heal which will make her certainly feel much less tanky, and seems to be the general concensus. It appears the armor scheme is the same when looking at the armor cross section however. Is Thunderer capable of bouncing AP rounds when angled the same as Conqueror? Are her turrets as durable?

I also have some questions about maneuverability. The stats show a significant difference in rudder shift time, but wonder about something Mouse mentioned in the review

In her review, she states the following:

This begs the question:  Would I recommend Thunderer?  Honestly, I'd hold off until Wargaming gets around to fixing Thunderer's agility.  It's not that this is a make or break issue, it's moreover the principle of hard earned in-game currency on a bugged product.

Can anyone confirm if this ever did get rectified?

Anything anyone would like to offer in terms of how the ships feel different would be greatly appreciated.

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They both have the same armor, and I think the firing angles are the same.

Thunderer has great HE, but is a devastating AP boat and whose dispersion is geared towards that. Conqueror has decent AP in a pinch, but is a better HE boat whose dispersion is more geared towards starting fires. Thunderer has better AA. Conqueror has the better heal.

Both are good, but Thunderer is more versatile and her awesome AP performance makes her more competitive.

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12 minutes ago, BugsBunni said:

I'm closing in on having enough coal to capture Thunderer.

I was hoping to get some feedback on the differences between her and Conqueror. I know she does not possess the monster heal which will make her certainly feel much less tanky, and seems to be the general concensus. It appears the armor scheme is the same when looking at the armor cross section however. Is Thunderer capable of bouncing AP rounds when angled the same as Conqueror? Are her turrets as durable?

I also have some questions about maneuverability. The stats show a significant difference in rudder shift time, but wonder about something Mouse mentioned in the review

In her review, she states the following:

This begs the question:  Would I recommend Thunderer?  Honestly, I'd hold off until Wargaming gets around to fixing Thunderer's agility.  It's not that this is a make or break issue, it's moreover the principle of hard earned in-game currency on a bugged product.

Can anyone confirm if this ever did get rectified?

Anything anyone would like to offer in terms of how the ships feel different would be greatly appreciated.

Currently the Thunderer is quietly considered a sleeper hit. She's actually ridiculously good but she came out at the time when the Smolensk was at her height, which overshadowed her. The Thunderer is probably THE most accurate of the 457mm gun equipped ships at all ranges vs the Conq which has your standard BB spread. The Thunderer has very good AP shells AND very good HE shells unlike the Conq where its AP is meh but still good HE. Over all the general consensus is that the Thunderer is a much better Conqueror thanks to its gun size (overmatch cruisers), accuracy, high damage but it shares the same problems as the Conq in that it's 32mm all over and lacks the superheal. 

Though in recent times with the raising of the citadel on the Conq the superheal isn't as much of a hold out as it use to be since the Yami twins can citadel you from the oddest of angles but against non-460 guns it still holds some use.

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2 of the same ship but different flavors. 

BUT. People underestimate both Conquerors AP and Thunderers HE.  I'm more afraid to take Thunderers HE than Conqs. That's for sure. 63% fire chance on that HE shell means a Thunderer that is focusing you will burn you down to the waterline, and can do it from a distance that you often cannot reliably return the favor.  Thats not including those 5 figure damage totals you'll take per salvo along with the fires. Yammys and Thunderers are the 2 ships in T10 that I always know where I am at relative to them and at what angle. 

Short answer: Get the Thunderer. Very worth it. 

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For almost any occasion, you are better off in Thunderer IF you can aim. Thunderer shells nearly always go where you want them to. The AP is divine, and will cit Yammy out to 19 kms and Monty and Thunderer beyond that. The HE is brutal -- those 12k damage/2 fire salvos will make you cringe with guilt.

Thunderer's drawback is that its armor is not good, anything can cit it, even at range. That means that at the end of the match when you have to push up and kill ships, carrying is more difficult because your armor isn't good. It has excellent detection, though, which you can use to reposition if there is no Cancer in the match.

Like Conq, it is not easy to carry in and you won't be picking it for competitive. But it's a ton of fun to play even in the blighted T10 meta.

ADDED: also, it is by far the easiest ship to get big damage in of all the ships in WOWs. 

Edited by Taichunger
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Do you want pinpoint accuracy at any range?

Do you want 12k HE salvo Cits on cruisers?

Do you want AP that can make BBabies cry momma?

Do you want to profit at T10?

.....

Get Thunderer and don't look back.

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Thunderer also has Conqueror's Legendary built in, a fact that people often forget.  It's a big deal because Conqueror has to give up Slot 5 for the Legendary while Thunderer gets the benefit but still have Slot 5 open for an actual Full Stealth Build :Smile_trollface:

 

Thunderer (Stealth - Survival - Main Battery Hybrid Build)

12.3km surface detection

35.64 seconds turret traverse

10.4 seconds rudder shift time

 

Conqueror (Survival - Main Battery - Legendary Hybrid Build)

13.67km surface detection

38.86 seconds turret traverse

10.4 seconds rudder shift time

If Conqueror ignores the Legendary and slots CSM1 instead, the values change to:

12.3km surface detection

43.06 seconds turret traverse

17.3 seconds rudder shift time

:Smile_teethhappy:

 

IMO, Thunderer has the best overall Battleship gunnery in the game.  She may not have Yamato's Sigma, but Thunderer is accurate in her own right and she can fire quite fast considering that these are 457mm guns.

32mm Overmatch is the perk that Yamato-class and Shikashima still have over all other BBs, but Thunderer has excellent shell options.  Her AP is brutal a.f. and her HE will totally ignore the best protection schemes out there.

Laugh at Cruisers with their hoighty toighty 30mm armor sections and Overmatch the sh*t out of them with AP.

Bow tanking Yamato-class, Sovetsky Soyuz, Kremlin with their 58mm-60mm deck armor?  Thunderer doesn't care.  With 114mm HE Pen and 61% fire chance, bow tank against Thunderer all you want.

Her guns and shells let her user have an answer for any situation.  With MBM3, her reload is 22.8 seconds (remember these are big 457mm guns).  She is no slouch in firepower.

 

I will say Thunderer's staying power isn't that great.  Conqueror still has the Mega Heals, and both of these BBs are actually low in HP for being Tier X Battleships.  They also are coated in 32mm armor, which means HE spammers will get nonstop pens against them.  Thunderer has to be careful because Conqueror's Mega Heals could recover lots of HP for her.  Thunderer is for the Battleship player that wants Firepower >>>> Everything else, for your guns to try and bail you out of every single conceivable problem.

She is accurate.

She fires fast.

She has big 457mm guns.

Both HE & AP are absolutely brutal.

 

Outside the shells, the reload of Thunderer is what IMO, sets her apart from Yamato-class gunnery.  Let's be honest here... Even Yamato with her high Sigma will, on occasion, throw out salvos that make you go, "WTH was that?"  She's a BB, it happens to all of them.  But Thunderer with MBM3 equipped has 22.8 seconds reload, and she can try again just as fast as Republique.

Republique has hard hitting 430mm guns that reload just as quick, but she has FR BB Dispersion, which is now the worst BB Dispersion in the game.

Not Thunderer.  Accurate, fast firing, hard hitting.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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Thanks for all the feedback folks!

Sounds like I will be getting her =)

9000 coal to go! Come on SC...lol

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3 hours ago, Ranari said:

They both have the same armor, and I think the firing angles are the same.

Thunderer has great HE, but is a devastating AP boat and whose dispersion is geared towards that. Conqueror has decent AP in a pinch, but is a better HE boat whose dispersion is more geared towards starting fires. Thunderer has better AA. Conqueror has the better heal.

Both are good, but Thunderer is more versatile and her awesome AP performance makes her more competitive.

And the Conq has 4 more guns, lets not forget that

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I picked up Thunderer, no regrets.

Biggest bonus? I figure I don't need Conq, so I can stop at KGV, (which I enjoy playing) and not have to endure the "meh" of Monarch amd Lion. No spending of EXP either. My KGV captain rotates between it, Nelson, and Thunderer. (have a separate captain for QE)

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58 minutes ago, vikingno2 said:

And the Conq has 4 more guns, lets not forget that

I see it kind of like Georgia vs. Iowa.

You have fewer guns, but that's offset by them being bigger, firing faster, and being more likely to hit where you want.

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Get Thunderer without hesitation! Both its AP and HE can deal great damage. Just imagine Thunderer / Conqueror = Shikishima / Yamato. 

Notice that Thunderer doesn't have the same BIG repair party that Conqueror has, you'll need to control the number of fires you may catch. Also, they share the same bad armor, so don't get yourself exposed to HE spamming CAs. 

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On 7/18/2020 at 4:28 PM, BugsBunni said:

Thanks for all the feedback folks!

Sounds like I will be getting her =)

9000 coal to go! Come on SC...lol

Reminder that Steel can be converted in to coal at a 10 coal per 1 steel so if you're REALLY desperate and you've got steel laying around that you don't use...might be worth using. I don't take part in clan battles so the daily steel is virtually useless for me but it does mean you basically get an additional 400 coal per day when it comes to buying coal ships if you're close to needing it.

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On 7/20/2020 at 1:13 AM, Yandere_Roon said:

Reminder that Steel can be converted in to coal at a 10 coal per 1 steel so if you're REALLY desperate and you've got steel laying around that you don't use...might be worth using. I don't take part in clan battles so the daily steel is virtually useless for me but it does mean you basically get an additional 400 coal per day when it comes to buying coal ships if you're close to needing it.

Yes, I'm very much in the same boat. Pun intended!:Smile_teethhappy:

I did have some steel, and enough to bridge the gap, so I picked her up.

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That feeling of bashing the crap out of an unsuspecting Smolensk player with Thunderer HE for 15,000 dmg and  2 fires, 2 knocked out turrets, broken steering gears and all of his AA in one salvo is something everyone needs to experience. Thunderer really brought me a huge amount of enjoyment out of the game. 

She will hurt you. No matter what angle, armour, health pool, range. She will hurt you badly. If the captain is a deadshot, you are gonna have a bad time. Every shell that hits breaks something. HE? It'll be secondaries, torp tubes, AA, steering and rudder. AP? It'll be your citadel. Getting caught in a turn by a loaded up Thunderer who is aimed in is bad news. Watching those shells coming into my ship in tight clusters make me cringe, because you know it can't end well unless you luck out and the captains aim was off. Otherwise its back to port.

I've eradicated little cruisers who sneak out from behind an island and try to back up into cover again, obliterating their bow on ship instantly with multiple cits. 

Thunderer is an absolute hoot to play. Did I mention she has Defensive AA fire? It isn't fantastic, but she can definitely swat down some cancerflies. 

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I love Thunderer so much. Honestly, I enjoy all the British battleships, even if the reason I enjoy Monarch and Lion is mostly because they're a challenge.

British battleships have a low skill floor and are a good line to get into if you play battleships at higher tiers. The monster heal gives you a lot of staying power, and the line is forgiving.  

Thunderer is a total monster, though. Her heal is not the super heal of Lion and Conqueror, but she has the best battleship gunnery in the game, and while she is lower on HP and armor, late game I am surprisingly comfortable being aggressive because her heal is still really good, and assuming you spec'd for reload, you can fire eight 18" shells every 23-ish seconds at super cruiser accuracy, which is nearly obscene. In the early game, you can throw them 24 km, which gives you the flexibility depending on the team matchup to fling HE at long range, switch the AP at mid range, or keep HE loaded when destroyers are around while also being confident that if you use your HE on a cruiser or a battleship instead, it will not be a wasted salvo - 8-12k damage salvos with two to three fires are not at all uncommon.

My favorite Thunderer match was on the PTS, it was a five vs. five random battle (which happens due to low server participation). It rapidly turned into me being on the short side of a 4-2 match, but then I dodged a Gearing torpedo salvo, sank him with 7 of 8 HE hits at 9 km, blapped an Amalfi with the very next AP salvo, and landed three citadels and four pens in my third salvo on a broadside Kremlin to end the match. I think my single-salvo record is something like 80k damage against another Thunderer who wasn't as patient as I was in a brawl.

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Grab Thunderer, I got both and I sail Thunderer more, her HE and AP are scary business.

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On 7/18/2020 at 5:17 AM, BugsBunni said:

I'm closing in on having enough coal to capture Thunderer.

I was hoping to get some feedback on the differences between her and Conqueror. I know she does not possess the monster heal which will make her certainly feel much less tanky, and seems to be the general concensus. It appears the armor scheme is the same when looking at the armor cross section however. Is Thunderer capable of bouncing AP rounds when angled the same as Conqueror? Are her turrets as durable?

I also have some questions about maneuverability. The stats show a significant difference in rudder shift time, but wonder about something Mouse mentioned in the review

In her review, she states the following:

This begs the question:  Would I recommend Thunderer?  Honestly, I'd hold off until Wargaming gets around to fixing Thunderer's agility.  It's not that this is a make or break issue, it's moreover the principle of hard earned in-game currency on a bugged product.

Can anyone confirm if this ever did get rectified?

Anything anyone would like to offer in terms of how the ships feel different would be greatly appreciated.

There are two reasons to get Thunderer. Armor is not one of them.

#1 RN gimmick HE memes

#2 large AP shells that really hurt things with the better-than-your-average-bear accuracy to actually make use of them. You'll feel the game's RNG... less.

Edited by Vekta408

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Thunderer is hilariously fun. Wiping out a tiny little destroyer with those HE shells is downright evil. The blast radius on her shell is absurd.

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