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lordholland4293

Defense of Naval Station Rework/Removal

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So I posted earlier about how terrible Defense of Naval Station is and some agreed, other recommend hoperations, but i fill while hoperation is great, the majority of people dont want to go to a separate channel just div up for an op. The only reasonable at least for the player base is the have it removed or reworked. I can say at least in my opinion if naval station was removed, very little people would complain WG because it is that terrible. These are from a match I just finished with zero stars yet still completed. Some thing at needs to be done, we the player base know you can make a op unavaible -(cough)-ugh hemm- narai unavaible, just remove the op and many to some op players would be happy. If you like statiscial data WG, look at the win ratios, and amounted played for this op compared to ageis, raptor, whale, and narai and your data will show it. 

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15 minutes ago, sh1ndl3rs_f1st said:

What they should do is change the required tier from VI to VII

Unfortunately that would require that WG even cared just a little bit about what the players desired.

Edited by Sovereigndawg
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24 minutes ago, sh1ndl3rs_f1st said:

What they should do is change the required tier from VI to VII

Now you're talking.  Atlanta, Flint, Belfast div, yes please.

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Newport is my favorite Operation to carry, no one is putting a gun to your head to play it.

Good luck convincing WG to fix anything, we're still waiting on 4 Operations to return 18 months later.

Edited by Rustyhole
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44 minutes ago, sh1ndl3rs_f1st said:

What they should do is change the required tier from VI to VII

WITHOUT cranking up the red ship tiers.

Maybe that would give the PUG-tatoes a fighting chance to keep the bots out of the harbor, at least for the first wave.

 

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1 hour ago, lordholland4293 said:

So I posted earlier about how terrible Defense of Naval Station is and some agreed, other recommend hoperations, but i fill while hoperation is great, the majority of people dont want to go to a separate channel just div up for an op. The only reasonable at least for the player base is the have it removed or reworked. I can say at least in my opinion if naval station was removed, very little people would complain WG because it is that terrible. These are from a match I just finished with zero stars yet still completed. Some thing at needs to be done, we the player base know you can make a op unavaible -(cough)-ugh hemm- narai unavaible, just remove the op and many to some op players would be happy. If you like statiscial data WG, look at the win ratios, and amounted played for this op compared to ageis, raptor, whale, and narai and your data will show it. 

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Wait it's terrible because people can't work together?

I had some great carries in random drops the last time it was up in the rotation. Not often you see a DD carry that OP...lol.

image.thumb.png.8dfafb676ee5c01ff227052e99ca2739.png

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1 hour ago, sh1ndl3rs_f1st said:

What they should do is change the required tier from VI to VII

I don't think that it'd make a difference.

The problem with the Newport Station operation is in how the players play it, not in the op itself.  The way to do well in the Newport op is to look for flanking shots, rather than just park in front of the charging enemy ships while taking pot shots at their bows.  When you only shoot at the bots' bows, you have a narrower target, generate a lot of auto bounces, and generally do a good deal less damage.  But if you look for flanking shots, you have larger targets and can generate a lot more damage more quickly, thus sinking the enemy ships that much more quickly.  Also, there needs to be better focus on the enemy DDs to prevent them from getting to the inner harbor early and triggering the enemy's main attack too soon.

And all of those failings are just as possible with tier 7 ships as they are with tier 6 ships.  Additionally, if the op was upgraded to tier 7, it'd prevent the player team from bringing a CV, which can be a useful addition in the hands of a good CV player.

 

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4 minutes ago, 1SneakyDevil said:

Wait it's terrible because people can't work together?

It's terrible because most PUG-tatoes don't even understand the most important objective, there's no way to get them to understand, and no way for those who do understand to salvage a star or two from it once the PUG-tatoes almost inevitably fail.

 

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7 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

It's terrible because most PUG-tatoes don't even understand the most important objective, there's no way to get them to understand, and no way for those who do understand to salvage a star or two from it once the PUG-tatoes almost inevitably fail.

 

Newport is also terrible that the margin for error is incredibly small and the punishment from such an error is drastic. (if the 1st wave manages to cross the line)

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Main issue I see is people huddle too far back in the harbour which means they shrink their map vision to such a degree that by the time someone spots the incoming reds they're already significantly progressed towards the line and the various red ships are close enough in spite of their varying ranges able to lay down dangerous focus fire.

I make a point of whenever playing that Op (especially in a BB) to push forward out past the line by a few KM ( that big central island as an example I will be on the side of it closest to the enemy). Not too far, but far enough that vision is gained on the larger enemy ships shortly after they arrive. Another way I have successfully done the Op is with a Farragut and telling people I will drop smoke on X wave and spot for them, thus I somewhat control where the friendly players are via the smoke and I manage getting early vision. Though this method can be scant on rewards depending on how good your team mates are at killing ships, if they're good they will clean up before you can do much with torps and guns.

If I were to make any change it would be to either:

Encourage better vision coverage of the enemy by the players.

Or

Just give better vision of enemies through some AI means (more spotting structures perhaps)

 

Adjust the timing or composition of the third wave slightly to give a bigger margin of error, wouldn't need to be much, 20 seconds or so as a start point. I find it mostly falls apart because 1 ship just makes it across barely, an extra 20 odds seconds is all that would be needed to change that. Alternatively a third wave composition change could work by subbing out a DD or two for another BB or something.

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44 minutes ago, Vader_Sama said:

Newport is also terrible that the margin for error is incredibly small and the punishment from such an error is drastic. (if the 1st wave manages to cross the line)

Ties into how easy it is for a couple of clueless players to ruin it for the rest of the "team".

Maybe if instead of a simple trigger, there was a countdown bar that went down a tick for every second spent by an enemy ship inside the "zone" -- a big red warning to the taters, and some margin for error.

Edited by KilljoyCutter

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1 hour ago, KilljoyCutter said:

It's terrible because most PUG-tatoes don't even understand the most important objective, there's no way to get them to understand, and no way for those who do understand to salvage a star or two from it once the PUG-tatoes almost inevitably fail.

 

You need to carry very hard in Newport like I did in the pic posted. And that was with a DD of all things. 

I've advocated for either adding one more player to this Ops or making it T7 with a rework of the bot ship levels.

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I finally ended up on a fairly competent team...then my game crashed just as I was getting into position shots on the second wave.  I got the game restarted quickly but load back in to see I'm down to about 700hp from full health at the crash.  As if this couldn't get more frustrating. :Smile-angry:

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10 hours ago, 1SneakyDevil said:

You need to carry very hard in Newport like I did in the pic posted. And that was with a DD of all things. 

I've advocated for either adding one more player to this Ops or making it T7 with a rework of the bot ship levels.

I have to disagree.  This is a player problem, not a tier or bot team comp problem.  If players understood how to play this op correctly, they'd win it far more often.

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13 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

I like to call that Op, "Defeat at Newport" :Smile_popcorn:

What do you mean?  I thought that was the official name for it.  :Smile_trollface:

Pass the popcorn!  :Smile_popcorn:

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The only matches I lost are the ones where people are too stupid inept to use the minimap. It's their first time or they never learned from previous failures and they didn't watch any videos on how to play the map. The can't count so are surprised when those other DDs or CL's trigger the final assault early. I literally figure a loss when I see certain ships show up - Nurburgs in particular as the folks who captain those seem to fall into all the categories I mention here plus like to sail out of the harbor to take the full focus fire of the first two waves.

The tactic that most people seem to throw out (armchair admirals) seems to be the best - last wave of ships, take out the wings then focus on the battleships - and don't camp out by the repair ships because if you fail to kill the right and left cruisers you'll just eat all the same torpedoes the repair ships get to eat and you also can't help take out the two DD's coming up the center because there is a big island in your way.

I guess I don't like the map because so many people expect to get carried or just do stupid stuff and win stupid prizes. 

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1 hour ago, Crucis said:

I have to disagree.  This is a player problem, not a tier or bot team comp problem.  If players understood how to play this op correctly, they'd win it far more often.

To a point... the fail state of "one bot crosses the line" resulting in a massive wave of enemy ships makes the Op very vulnerable and almost impossible to salvage once that one thing goes wrong. 

Compare to Narai, which can be salvaged despite multiple setbacks. 

 

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6 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

To a point... the fail state of "one bot crosses the line" resulting in a massive wave of enemy ships makes the Op very vulnerable and almost impossible to salvage once that one thing goes wrong. 

Compare to Narai, which can be salvaged despite multiple setbacks. 

 

And you can literally RNG into not stopping a bot from making it over the line. Multiple ways.

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3 hours ago, KilljoyCutter said:

To a point... the fail state of "one bot crosses the line" resulting in a massive wave of enemy ships makes the Op very vulnerable and almost impossible to salvage once that one thing goes wrong. 

Compare to Narai, which can be salvaged despite multiple setbacks. 

 

If the team plays the op properly, the enemy bots will have little chance of reaching the line.  But if the team just camps inside the inner harbor and snipes, you can fully expect bots to reach and cross the line.

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