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MrTurtle49

CV re-rework

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It is quite obvious to me that from t8 to t10 cv's are a problem. I think it is the lack of team play and the ability to just obliterate the other team. You can only send off one squadron at a time, which makes it difficult to shut down the enemy cv and attack effectively. While I have never played in the old cv format, it seemed much better. It involved planning and strategy, core values of this game. Now, I had an idea that would sorta mush the two together.

You would play the game for the minimap for the most part. The game would start like this, and you would have three types of planes available to you. Fighter, dive bomber, and torpedo bomber. I also would add the ability for the cv to detonate. However, there would be a twist. Fighters can be loaded with ammunition for their machine guns, or rockets for use against ships. Not both. The fighter would be available to attack enemy aircraft, and the rockets would make cv's not helpless against dd's. Also, historical planes like the Japanese Kate, British swordfish, and American Helldiver planes sometimes carried bombs and sometimes carried torpedos, those planes would be able to mount torpedoes or bombs. However, during refueling, there would be a +5% chance of detonation, and during ammunition transfer there would be a +10% chance of detonation.

Now I would like to say how the ship is controlled. There would be 4-6 slots for planes, one for if you want to mount rockets, fighters, torpedos and bombs. If you carried a plane that could mount either bombs or torpedos, there would be six slots. For example:

(The letters are abbreviations for plane type)
no dual-purpose planes:

[F] [R] [T] [D]

1    2    3    4

dual-purpose planes:

[F] [R] [T] [D] [T] [D]
1    2    3    4   5   6

the planes would be controlled by selecting a plane and clicking a point on the minimap. Then, when a squadron would want to attack a ship, the player would receive manual control and the attack would look like how attacks in the current cv state do, just with all planes. This would apply to fighters too, you woul be able to fly around for ~20-30 secs manually shooting down anything that flies. After you expend all your ammunition, press F and your planes will go back to refuel. When the planes land on the deck, you will be able to select which ordinance you would like to be placed on the planes, via the number key of said ordinance. Once they are fueled and armed, press the same key again to be able to launch those planes. The ship would also be able to be controlled with auto pilot from the minimap, or you can use manual control.

consumables would be manually activated, dcp and defaa. Defaa would be changed to also affect the accuracy of AA, making it much more difficult to attack a ship without losing most of your squadron. For example, in an attack of 9 planes only 2 would get to drop.

 

Let me know what you guys think ;)

Edited by MrTurtle49
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No, go away. 

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I think you need to play CV's in tier 8 & 10 before making broad brush comments on their abilities which is highly impacted by player skill which is true for all ships.

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How cute, basically is RTS CV all over again. It is OK OP, you weren't here at that time, I don't blame you.

 

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15 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

 which is highly impacted by player skill which is true for all ships.

Yet only one class benefits from going up against an automated mechanic and not really against player skill

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3 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Yet only one class benefits from going up against an automated mechanic and not really against player skill

Secondaries are automated too.

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18 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

I think you need to play CV's in tier 8 & 10 before making broad brush comments on their abilities which is highly impacted by player skill which is true for all ships.

It's god mode.  Let's call it what it is,  I'm sure it's exhilarating for the CV driver to wtfpwn all the newbs with extreme vengeance....but let's be honest here.

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3 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

Secondaries are automated too.

Enemy secondaries are automated too and can't be dodged. Only RNG dependent.

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1 minute ago, CommodoreKang said:

It's god mode.  Let's call it what it is,  I'm sure it's exhilarating for the CV driver to wtfpwn all the newbs with extreme vengeance....but let's be honest here.

The only CV players that wreck face in the top tiers almost at will are the top players. The rest of us struggle to do anything in the top tiers because the AA is intense.

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Just now, ArIskandir said:

Enemy secondaries are automated too and can't be dodged. Only RNG dependent.

Only flak is sort of RNG where the rest of the AA is pure DPS.

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Just now, BrushWolf said:

Only flak is sort of RNG where the rest of the AA is pure DPS.

"ONLY flak" is the bulk of the AA damage, and it can be dodged. 

Distribute it on DPS only and then is fair game, automated on both sides.

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I was wondering why we didn't have an CV thread on page one.  Thanks for saving the day.

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3 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

"ONLY flak" is the bulk of the AA damage, and it can be dodged. 

Distribute it on DPS only and then is fair game, automated on both sides.

Flak also has a DPS factor and dodging can be... well dodgy because of the massive amount that some ships put up. Give it a try from the CV players perspective some time, the next PT will do fine since you don't have any on the live server.

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1 hour ago, MrTurtle49 said:

Let me know what you guys think ;)

There are still quite a few issues with CVs and balance that need to be addressed, and also a few issues from the CV perspective that could be addressed as well. For example, AA needs to be addressed at every tier and the CV-DD interaction can feel too one sided at times. Having said that, hoping for a re-rework is right up there with the hope that CVs will be removed, it's not going to happen (nor would your idea really work in terms of balance/playability/enjoyment for both sides).

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13 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

The only CV players that wreck face in the top tiers almost at will are the top players. The rest of us struggle to do anything in the top tiers because the AA is intense.

Let's say you bring a minigun to a knifefight.  Just because one person can't hit anything with the minigun doesn't make it god mode.  It very much is god mode but the sad truth is even with god mode some people struggle.

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5 minutes ago, CommodoreKang said:

Let's say you bring a minigun to a knifefight.  Just because one person can't hit anything with the minigun doesn't make it god mode.  

ONE person can't hit anything with the minigun??

Heck, most people don't realise they have to have a charged battery to make the barrels rotate, which means their minigun is actually a manually operated revolver.....

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3 minutes ago, CommodoreKang said:

Let's say you bring a minigun to a knifefight.  Just because one person can't hit anything with the minigun doesn't make it god mode.  It very much is god mode but the sad truth is even with god mode some people struggle.

The only place where CV's are 100% god mode are in tier 3/4 matches. Maybe you should try it before you proclaim it god mode.

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Just now, BrushWolf said:

The only place where CV's are 100% god mode are in tier 3/4 matches. Maybe you should try it before you proclaim it god mode.

You move many times faster than surface ships. You can spot anywhere on the map without risk hit points.  You can fight anywhere on the map without risking your hit points.  

You can choose any fight you want.  You can force any fight you want.

 

Therefore:  god mode

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6 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

Flak also has a DPS factor and dodging can be... well dodgy because of the massive amount that some ships put up. Give it a try from the CV players perspective some time, the next PT will do fine since you don't have any on the live server.

Still, the bulk of Flak can be dodged. Still, one side of the interaction is fully automated while the other have a way to evade most of the damage.

I've tested CV's in training rooms, granted I've not tested high tier ones but not really that difficult to dodge flak once you get the timing right. Yes, you probably won't be dodging all the flak damage, but you'll be evading enough to make it meaningless.

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Just now, CommodoreKang said:

You move many times faster than surface ships. You can spot anywhere on the map without risk hit points.  You can fight anywhere on the map without risking your hit points.  

You can choose any fight you want.  You can force any fight you want.

 

Therefore:  god mode

Spot anywhere without chancing damage? Please play them and come back to me on spotting without risking hit points.

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Just now, BrushWolf said:

Spot anywhere without chancing damage? Please play them and come back to me on spotting without risking hit points.

Yeah you can spot anywhere on the map, essentially in real time (as compared to what a surface ship can do).  And you can do it without risking your ships hit points.  At all.

So again.  It's pretty easy to proclaim CVs are god mode.  

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10 minutes ago, CommodoreKang said:

Yeah you can spot anywhere on the map, essentially in real time (as compared to what a surface ship can do).  And you can do it without risking your ships hit points.  At all.

So again.  It's pretty easy to proclaim CVs are god mode.  

Try doing that spotting and get back on how well it worked.

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Back on topic... 

I'm not sure I understand what the mechanics are. You can send up multiple squads, but only attack with one at a time? What happens to the squads that are already up when you go from minimap to plane control? Do they just circle around? 

If it's just one squadron, then the only difference is that you don't manually fly the plane to the target

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7 minutes ago, CommodoreKang said:

Yeah you can spot anywhere on the map, essentially in real time (as compared to what a surface ship can do).  And you can do it without risking your ships hit points.  At all.

So again.  It's pretty easy to proclaim CVs are god mode.  

Easy to proclaim, and a complete lie.

A CV's hitpoints are also irrelevant to a CV doing anything, and as such are meaningless.

The Actual "hitpoints" of a CV are the aircraft is has ready to use or in the air. Run yourself out of them, and you're effectively dead. It's not like the regen is going to dig you out of that hole.

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7 minutes ago, CommodoreKang said:

And you can do it without risking your ships hit points.

The pro-CV crowd wants to claim plane HP and ship HP are the same thing. The anti-CV and CV-neutrals know it is not.

Squadron of planes stumbles upon a Smollensk hidden in smoke. Probably going to lose most or all of that squadron. CV has to pick different plane type for the next strike. Knows about where that Smollensk is and can avoid it. Game continues.

DD stumbles upon that same smoked Smollensk unprepared.   DD is heading back to port. There is no recovery plan.

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