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Titus_Pullo_13

Creative direction of game and some questions.

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For the most part, I LOVE this game. There is so much more depth to it than I initially realized. As a naval warfare enthusiast, I really geek-out on the detail.

A couple of questions:
The Italians actually made some awesome ships that saw action. If they were handled differently, they could have made a difference in the Med. Why are fantasy Russian ships given priority? I understand the developers are primarily Russian and they have done a GREAT job! But why ignore history? WoWS is splitting their base. As a new player, I was attracted to the representations of real ships but I'm losing interest over gimmicks. If the trend towards fantasy continues, I won't spend more money. It's like the developers are trying to ensure job security and looking for something to do by creating weird, arcade imagery. They are not tapping into new markets, they are alienating their base. 

With so much real drama in the  REAL world of warships, why use abominations like in the attached pic?

I HATE the Nagato, loved the Fuso! Is the Amagi a step up? I have the accuracy mod but the accuracy is horrific. 

Spotter aircraft: Do experienced players like using it? It's good for some occasional potshots but not enough to do damage?

Any thoughts on the Inertial Fuse which requires 4 experience points? I'm having success with Kirov, Dallas and Helana and thinking of grinding for it, or are those ships best left HE spam firestarters?

Thank you! Many of you have been very helpful and I appreciate your insight.
Toxic offal will be put on "ignore" and I won't bother answering. 




 

ugh.jpg

Edited by Titus_Pullo_13
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This is a guess, but I would say Russian naval documents were just easier to procure, 
They have said in their Dev diary previously it takes 3-6 months to model and skin an individual ship, so some of these lines have been in development for a long time. 

We know the Italians have DD's in due time, likely BB's and who knows what else. 
Everything takes time, 
Currently the world is broken, they likely have staff issues too, seeing as their country is no different to anyone else in the world as it seems. 
continue to play and like always we will be rewarded in due time. 
When I started there was just the USA and Japan. 

Now look 

Skies the limit sir. 

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1 minute ago, Salvo_Creative said:
1 minute ago, Salvo_Creative said:

This is a guess, but I would say It's like the developers are trying to ensure job security and looking for something to do by creating weird, arcade imagery. They are not tapping into new markets, they are alienating their base. 
They have said in their Dev diary previously it takes 3-6 months to model and skin an individual ship, so some of these lines have been in development for a long time. 

We know the Italians have DD's in due time, likely BB's and who knows what else. 
Everything takes time, 
Currently the world is broken, they likely have staff issues too, seeing as their country is no different to anyone else in the world as it seems. 
continue to play and like always we will be rewarded in due time. 
When I started there was just the USA and Japan. 

Now look 

Skies the limit sir. 

>>Russian naval documents were just easier to procure, 

Thats a good guess. I hadn't thought of that.

I'm not asking for new ships, just slow down the make-believe.  There are so many fantasy games out there, why take an awesome game based in reality and wrap it magic?

It's like they hired a new creative director that wants a new audience. ... and that's fine. Maybe I'm not the target. They need to make money!

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1 hour ago, Titus_Pullo_13 said:

For the most part, I LOVE this game. There is so much more depth to it than I initially realized. As a naval warfare enthusiast, I really geek-out on the detail.

A couple of questions:
The Italians actually made some awesome ships that saw action. If they were handled differently, they could have made a difference in the Med. Why are fantasy Russian ships given priority? I understand the developers are primarily Russian and they have done a GREAT job! But why ignore history? WoWS is splitting their base. As a new player, I was attracted to the representations of real ships but I'm losing interest over gimmicks. If the trend towards fantasy continues, I won't spend more money. It's like the developers are trying to ensure job security and looking for something to do by creating weird, arcade imagery. They are not tapping into new markets, they are alienating their base. 

With so much real drama in the  REAL world of warships, why use abominations like in the attached pic?

I HATE the Nagato, loved the Fuso! Is the Amagi a step up? I have the accuracy mod but the accuracy is horrific. 

Spotter aircraft: Do experienced players like using it? It's good for some occasional potshots but not enough to do damage?

Any thoughts on the Inertial Fuse which requires 4 experience points? I'm having success with Kirov, Dallas and Helana and thinking of grinding for it, or are those ships best left HE spam firestarters?

Thank you! Many of you have been very helpful and I appreciate your insight.
Toxic offal will be put on "ignore" and I won't bother answering. 




 

ugh.jpg

The answer to "Why these Russian ships?" is.. markets. Wargaming is a company, we live in a Capitalist world, Wargaming wants money and they want all of it (Which is why they have gambling in their games AND also moved to Cyprus.. google that one), this is why they add Russian ships, this is why Russia/USSR was like the fourth nation to be added (even before Britain, iirc), because they want to exploit their Russian playerbase, that particular market. So far it has not been a huge success, Russians are not particularly interested in ships because their naval traditions are not on par with those in the US, Japan or the UK, they like tanks, they love their tanks, that is why World of Tanks is a HUGE success in Russia, Warships? Not so much, EU has more players than Russia if I'm not terribly mistaken, which kinda explains why "Pan-European" ships exists. It can be applied to other places as well, why there are no South American ships apart from ARA Nueve de Julio? Because SA Market is literally non-existent, the community is small and most of us don't have the material conditions to spend money on pixel boats, so they don't see any reason to invest a lot of money and time in a market that will gain little to no traction.. they'll do it, some day maybe, but they're a company, and they do company things.

I loved the Nagato, I used it back before it was buffed and it's lovely, low number of guns but you have the biggest caliber at your tier and they're fairly accurate. Use it a long range, where the Japanese guns are most effective, hell, I love Mutsu as well. Fuso is fine, I didn't like it first but then bought it back and it's a fine ship, not the best at that tier (Warspite says hi) because it can't overmatch it's BB opponents, sadly. We call it the "Fusopeta" (the peta part comes from "Escopeta", which means Shotgun in Spanish) and we take it out from time to time on triple Fuso divisions for the lols. Amagi is good, it's like a spiritual successor to Fuso in most regards, I'd advise you to shoot HE more often with Amagi, these shells are actually not bad at all against bow-in targets. Stay at range and wait for late game to push, try not to melt if possible!

Spotter aircraft? Yes, always. I have catapult fighters on some select ships, but most of the times I take spotter because fighters are pretty bad overall. There's an often overlooked characteristic on the spotter planes, they actually spot enemy ships! If you feel an enemy DD/CL/whatever is lurking behind an island and too close to you... launch your spotter plane, you might see it and allow you to plan accordingly.

As for IFHE, I dunno, the fact that it cuts half of our Fire % is bad. I'm grinding the UU for Hindenburg and I played like 37 games with my IFHE build and... it's hard, I was averaging 120k damage per game and it's great because you can penetrate literally everyone, shoving off 6k of hp from Kremlins at 20km sure is nice, but you don't start any fires, and soon you'll find yourself not doing a lot of pasive damage and getting constantly spotted because you have to keep firing your guns. So I took IFHE out and my first game without it was like 15 fires, 240k damage like it was nothing. Same goes for my Khabarovsk, I barely did 75k damage per game with my IFHE build (some hilarious games with 260 hits and ONE fire), took IFHE out, got Demolition Expert in and boom, averaging 115k damage since then. So yeah, I think I prefer fires, you'll do a ton of passive damage which allows you to take a moment to stop firing, disengage and relocate while your enemy burns. Now IFHE is no longer a "no-brainer"!

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20 minutes ago, Torenico said:

The answer to "Why these Russian ships?" is.. markets. Wargaming is a company, we live in a Capitalist world, Wargaming wants money and they want all of it (Which is why they have gambling in their games AND also moved to Cyprus.. google that one), this is why they add Russian ships, this is why Russia/USSR was like the fourth nation to be added (even before Britain, iirc), because they want to exploit their Russian playerbase, that particular market. So far it has not been a huge success, Russians are not particularly interested in ships because their naval traditions are not on par with those in the US, Japan or the UK, they like tanks, they love their tanks, that is why World of Tanks is a HUGE success in Russia, Warships? Not so much, EU has more players than Russia if I'm not terribly mistaken, which kinda explains why "Pan-European" ships exists. It can be applied to other places as well, why there are no South American ships apart from ARA Nueve de Julio? Because SA Market is literally non-existent, the community is small and most of us don't have the material conditions to spend money on pixel boats, so they don't see any reason to invest a lot of money and time in a market that will gain little to no traction.. they'll do it, some day maybe, but they're a company, and they do company things.

I loved the Nagato, I used it back before it was buffed and it's lovely, low number of guns but you have the biggest caliber at your tier and they're fairly accurate. Use it a long range, where the Japanese guns are most effective, hell, I love Mutsu as well. Fuso is fine, I didn't like it first but then bought it back and it's a fine ship, not the best at that tier (Warspite says hi) because it can't overmatch it's BB opponents, sadly. We call it the "Fusopeta" (the peta part comes from "Escopeta", which means Shotgun in Spanish) and we take it out from time to time on triple Fuso divisions for the lols. Amagi is good, it's like a spiritual successor to Fuso in most regards, I'd advise you to shoot HE more often with Amagi, these shells are actually not bad at all against bow-in targets. Stay at range and wait for late game to push, try not to melt if possible!

Spotter aircraft? Yes, always. I have catapult fighters on some select ships, but most of the times I take spotter because fighters are pretty bad overall. There's an often overlooked characteristic on the spotter planes, they actually spot enemy ships! If you feel an enemy DD/CL/whatever is lurking behind an island and too close to you... launch your spotter plane, you might see it and allow you to plan accordingly.

As for IFHE, I dunno, the fact that it cuts half of our Fire % is bad. I'm grinding the UU for Hindenburg and I played like 37 games with my IFHE build and... it's hard, I was averaging 120k damage per game and it's great because you can penetrate literally everyone, shoving off 6k of hp from Kremlins at 20km sure is nice, but you don't start any fires, and soon you'll find yourself not doing a lot of pasive damage and getting constantly spotted because you have to keep firing your guns. So I took IFHE out and my first game without it was like 15 fires, 240k damage like it was nothing. Same goes for my Khabarovsk, I barely did 75k damage per game with my IFHE build (some hilarious games with 260 hits and ONE fire), took IFHE out, got Demolition Expert in and boom, averaging 115k damage since then. So yeah, I think I prefer fires, you'll do a ton of passive damage which allows you to take a moment to stop fire, disengage and relocate while your enemy burns. Now IFHE is not longer a "no-brainer"!

Thanks so much. 

Yes, the Russians were devastating in land battles. It doesn't make sense for them to make up ships hoping to generate naval interest in Russia. Why not play to their strengths?

Fairly new at the Nagato. it doesn't seem nearly as accurate as the Fuso but I'll try. It has a punch but having problems with accuracy. 
>>As for IFHE, I dunno, the fact that it cuts half of our Fire % is bad. 

Giving priority to the "Demolition Expert" skill in Kirov. I know it hurts the HE but didn't realize it was 50%. With the Kirov thin skin, I'm usually not close enough to use much AP. It's effective but I try to keep my distance. Its not worth losing 50% of my fire starting. 

Edited by Titus_Pullo_13

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1 hour ago, Titus_Pullo_13 said:

If the trend towards fantasy continues, I won't spend more money. It's like the developers are trying to ensure job security and looking for something to do by creating weird, arcade imagery.

One thing you are going to notice the more ships you get and dev-stuff you see, is the devs tend to be very interested in any nation's more 'undefined' ship designs. Either projects where there's modernizations or some other change they can do, or just straight up kitbashed ships. A lot of them are probably naval enthusiasts who like interpreting design work into the game through their own lens, so you see stuff like some of the later VMF (Russian Navy) ships, weird USN mutants like Ohio/the new USN BB split ships, etc. They probably like having more room to exercise their own creativity with those kinds of ships then just translating ones who were launched and sailed straight into the game. People love what-ifs, right?

Well we're playing What-If: The Game at this point.

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>>Well we're playing What-If: The Game at this point.

All good points. I don't expect a simulator but there is a huge gulf between some of the magical plasma ships, imaginary warships and anything approaching historical inspiration. 

Its still the best warship game out there, but I'd like them to deviate from the fantasy world. 


 

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36 minutes ago, Titus_Pullo_13 said:

>>Well we're playing What-If: The Game at this point.

All good points. I don't expect a simulator but there is a huge gulf between some of the magical plasma ships, imaginary warships and anything approaching historical inspiration. 

 

Its still the best warship game out there, but I'd like them to deviate from the fantasy world. 

(Quoted this as it's shorter but will address some of your OP questions also)

You can turn off any/all of the "fantasy" graphics by using the filters in the gear icon at the top right of your ships carousel in port.

The ships will just render as the base ship model w/a basic camo.

The ship modeling is the only "real" aspect of the game...the gameplay (point & shoot) doesn't resemble real life at all & if "fantasy" is a problem for you the gameplay aspects are as fantastical as they come...this is just an arcade game when all is said & done.

As this is just a game not tapping into the fantasy (aka anime/Halloween/etc) aspects for those that enjoy that stuff (which basically only amounts to alternate skins for ships & nothing more) would be a huge market left untapped...& as the filters mentioned exist those that don't enjoy them (like yourself) can turn them all off.

As for paper ships the access to RU documents was correct as to why so many RU paper ships...& having so few real RU ships to choose from they try to save those for premium status as they donate a percentage of premium sales to the vets of the country the premiums come from.

As for the "ignoring history" part they can't just model ships in the game w/out getting permission from the countries governments so even if they want to add new ships from other countries they need to wait for authorization & then get access to the blueprints & then work out the whole line of ships before being able to release them & that takes time...especially digging through all the archives in a foreign country just to get the blueprints & then they can't just release a whole nation's complete line of ships at once or every other nations players will complain "you released 2 lines from them before releasing another 1/any of ours" type comments.

As for spotter planes...they are 1 of the biggest differences between good players & unicums...unicums will turn those potshots you mentioned into dev strikes before 1st engagement has even begun (the 899 div is a good example of this)...at least against newer players that don't know to WASD  if they've been spotted even for a brief moment...& even the less than good players can get very devastating results against a ship sitting still in it's smoke not being spotted & not aware (as priority target doesn't tell you if anybody is aiming at you if you are not spotted) that anybody has it "locked" just by the location of their shells when firing out of smoke.

In short...practice spotter planes as much as possible if you truly want to "get gud" (1 of the areas I am most lacking in personally).

IFHE is best summarized in LWMs "IFHE all night long" article for (basically) explaining which ships are best to take IFHE on or not.

As for this (there is so much false data here I'm just gonna highlight a few aspects & ignore the rest):

2 hours ago, Torenico said:

(The whole start can be summed up in 1 symbol: $...a company trying to make that...there should be laws)

...this is why Russia/USSR was like the fourth nation to be added (actually they were 1 of the 1st 3 along w/IJN & US...if your gonna try & bash them about adding themselves so soon don't hold back by assuming they would release a game & not include themselves from the start...your RU bashing is actually kinda weak dude)(even before Britain (In the real world when the game 1st came out there was political issues between Russia & Britain which is the only actual reason as to why Britain was not included in the original release of the game...because as I stated before WG needs to get permission to use ship models from the government's of the nation's the ships are from & Britain wasn't allowing it...not that Britain specifically told WG no...but it's hard to access ship blueprints from a nation that won't let your citizens enter their country), iirc), because they want to exploit their Russian playerbase, that particular market. So far it has not been a huge success (The fact they have there own WoWS server just for the RU & the fact that it was the only WoWS server at all at 1 time & none of the other servers would ever have existed had they not been popular enough to pass proof of concept at home is I'm sure just a fluke that can be easily ignored when concocting "if I'm not terribly mistaken***" theories), Russians are not particularly interested in ships because their "naval traditions are not on par" with those in the US, Japan or the UK, they like tanks, they love their tanks, that is why World of Tanks is a HUGE success in Russia, Warships? Not so much, EU has more players than Russia ***if I'm not terribly mistaken (If you weren't terribly mistaken you'd actually have a source to quote as opposed to just stating things...so what is it? Is this actual data or is it possibile that you are "terribly mistaken" because you are just making an assumption), which kinda explains why "Pan-European" ships exists (nice use of the word "kinda"...when you ignore the fact that Europe had many countries that didn't have enough ships to fill a whole tree & making a separate category to include them is the actual explanation...but you can concoct any story & just use "kinda" as a get out of being called wrong card because you didn't say actually...you said "kinda"...well done). It can be applied to other places as well, why there are no South American ships apart from ARA Nueve de Julio? Because SA Market is literally non-existent (as was their role in either of the world wars...what was that you said about Russia's "naval traditions not on par"? SA's ship is only in the game because it actually served in the war & was sold to SA afterwards...are you gonna bash RU paper ships & complain there's no SA ships in the game in the same post (obviously a rhetorical question as you just did)?

We call it the "Fusopeta" (the peta part comes from "Escopeta", which means Shotgun in Spanish) That's pretty cool actually.

There's an often overlooked characteristic on the spotter planes, they actually spot enemy ships (all ships have an "aerial detection range" & any plane in the game can spot any ship if it gets w/in that detection range...Torps can't be spotted by any planes...since the CV rework...but any plane can spot any ship)!

 

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Not long after Beta WG stated they were going to follow and develop the Arcade side of the game and leave History behind. Most of us who came for the Historical have left. I just check in from time to time to see where the game is.

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9 hours ago, Titus_Pullo_13 said:

Giving priority to the "Demolition Expert" skill in Kirov. I know it hurts the HE but didn't realize it was 50%. With the Kirov thin skin, I'm usually not close enough to use much AP. It's effective but I try to keep my distance. Its not worth losing 50% of my fire starting. 

You want to think about where that captain is going to end up.

If you're going to continue through the Russian CLs, you may want to go IFHE.

In the Kirov, there's only a couple ships you'll come across with enough plating to resist 180mm HE pen. But all T8+ BBs have at least 32mm plating, so from T6 up, you'll run into more and more of them.

No IFHE will give you more fires, but you'll only be able to damage those BBs with superstructure hits. With IFHE, you can pen bows and sterns too.

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1 minute ago, Skpstr said:

You want to think about where that captain is going to end up.

Good point.

Right now, my Captain is at 12 and I like the Kirov. Now that they made it a Premium ship, I'm not crazy about going back a level to start grinding. 

Is the Kirov typical of Russan cruisers? Fast ship, powerful guns, accurate, good reload, weak armor, very slow torps.

Thank you

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16 minutes ago, Titus_Pullo_13 said:

Good point.

Right now, my Captain is at 12 and I like the Kirov. Now that they made it a Premium ship, I'm not crazy about going back a level to start grinding. 

Is the Kirov typical of Russan cruisers? Fast ship, powerful guns, accurate, good reload, weak armor, very slow torps.

Thank you

That seems to be the Russian cruiser flavor.  Budyonny (T6) and Shchors (T7) are similar with smaller guns.  Tier 8 is a heavy/light split.

Squishy with rail guns is the overarching theme.  Easy to get kills, easy to get killed.  Not for the faint of heart.  :cap_like:

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48 minutes ago, Titus_Pullo_13 said:


Is the Kirov typical of Russan cruisers? Fast ship, powerful guns, accurate, good reload, weak armor, very slow torps.

Thank you

bit hard to generalise due there being two cruiser lines, and that high tier cruisers usually are a lot different to mid tier ones.

fast.. not especially

powerful guns... depends on the ship, the answer is both yes and no, are we taling 155mm or 220mm etc

accurate... generally yes, or more to the point fast shell velocity and flat shell arc translates into more consistant accuracy

good reload... mostly no, they have longer than average reloads, due to non autoloading high caliber guns

weak armour... very strong at front for many with their icebreaker bows, side armour is ok.. but they tend to have large, high citadels and are prone to getting blapped off the map if poorly positioned.

slow torps... goes from crap short torps to no torps at all

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With so much real drama in the  REAL world of warships, why use abominations like in the attached pic?

The "kiddie" camos are an abomination IMO. I turn these off so I don't have to look at them.

My 2 granddaughters know I have a pink ship so I have to play a battle with the ARP camo in full display every now & then. They are 5 & 7 years-old. My 11 year-old grandson goes for the Halloween camos. This is my justification for calling them "kiddie". Of course some player like these.

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2 hours ago, Titus_Pullo_13 said:

Good point.

Right now, my Captain is at 12 and I like the Kirov. Now that they made it a Premium ship, I'm not crazy about going back a level to start grinding. 

Is the Kirov typical of Russan cruisers? Fast ship, powerful guns, accurate, good reload, weak armor, very slow torps.

Thank you

If you still have the commander specialized for Kirov transfer him to another ship ASAP (this applies to any commander assigned to any premium/special ship).

The main benefit of premium/special ships is you can transfer same nation commanders to & from them (if they are specialized for that ship) w/no penalty.

It will cost you to transfer him to another ship & his skills will be inactive/only 1/2 active during retraining on the ship you transfer him to but you can transfer him back to Kirov for free & work off the retraining XP on the Kirov which will have all skills fully active.

After he is retrained that will allow you to farm both the daily 1st win bonuses to build up the commander faster & allow you to grind the rest of the line out w/a commander starting at 12 points.

Not sure how far you are on the line but he should go on your highest tier ship in the line to work on grinding the next ship...unless you are only a little bit away from the next ship then just finish off that ship w/the commander it has & transfer him to the next ship after you research it.

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos

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32 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

If you still have the commander specialized for Kirov transfer him to another ship ASAP (this applies to any commander assigned to any premium/special ship).

The main benefit of premium/special ships is you can transfer same nation commanders to & from them (if they are specialized for that ship) w/no penalty.

It will cost you to transfer him to another ship & his skills will be inactive/only 1/2 active during retraining on the ship you transfer him to but you can transfer him back to Kirov for free & work off the retraining XP on the Kirov which will have all skills fully active.

After he is retrained that will allow you to farm both the daily 1st win bonuses to build up the commander faster & allow you to grind the rest of the line out w/a commander starting at 12 points.

Not sure how far you are on the line but he should go on your highest tier ship in the line to work on grinding the next ship...unless you are only a little bit away from the next ship then just finish off that ship w/the commander it has & transfer him to the next ship after you research it.

I only have one Russian ship at the moment, The Kirov. 

I do have a Texas Captain at 12 who I can transfer. Thank you!

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captains only like to sail their national ships. Your texan captain may be happy enough in a gearing destroyer or a baltimore cruiser but no way will he even glance at a Ruskie vessel. But get him working on your New York or equivalent as soon as possible.

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1 hour ago, Titus_Pullo_13 said:

I only have one Russian ship at the moment, The Kirov. 

I do have a Texas Captain at 12 who I can transfer. Thank you!

Your welcome.

If you've never run the RU line (as opposed to ran them & sold them) hold off on transferring the commander until you have a high enough tier ship that it doesn't cost more to transfer the commander than to finish grinding out the ship & modules...otherwise as soon as the commander is trained you need to transfer him to the next ship & he's right back in training again.

That's if you are planning on running him up the line. If he's going into a ship you plan on permanently leaving him on it doesn't matter of course.

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