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TheArc

CV Rocket tweak (nerf) is in testing

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https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/51

  • Rocket's aiming reticle turned by 90 degrees, and now it is elongated horizontally. 
  • Also, buff to US DD DefAA - Bonus to AA continuous damage from "Defensive AA fire" consumable increased from +75% to +100%

Not sure if these are in addition to, or in replacement of the DD AA fire spotting tweak they were testing. 

Edited by TheArc

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3 minutes ago, TheArc said:

https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/51

  • Rocket's aiming reticle turned by 90 degrees, and now it is elongated horizontally. 
  • Also, buff to US DD DefAA - Bonus to AA continuous damage from "Defensive AA fire" consumable increased from +75% to +100%

Not sure if these are in addition to, or in replacement of the DD AA fire spotting tweak they were testing. 

The rocket reticule change was needed. I play CVs a lot and it wasn't good practice to require players to know which specific type of rocket plane was attacking them to tell which way to maneuver to mitigate or avoid the damage. Midway and Lexington were particularly bad as figure out whether he was using Tiny Tims or HVARs to know which way to turn and there was no obvious way to do that. Now all rocket planes are consistent and prefer to attack broadside.  

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Ehh, not sure if it is a nerf or not.  Frankly I appreciate the horizontal aiming from the CV side and it always threw me changing CVs and having it being totally different.  Can also see how it would be frustrating to remember as prey which direction to turn to mitigate damage.  I think it is just a good quality of life change all around.

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23 minutes ago, TheArc said:

Also, buff to US DD DefAA - Bonus to AA continuous damage from "Defensive AA fire" consumable increased from +75% to +100%

They are moving in the right direction, they still have a ways to go to get back to the +300%.  I think about half of T10 DDs average more plane kills than Gearing (that was supposed to be an AA boat). 

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Whether or not this is actually a nerf or not depends on how the final dispersion turns out. The one shown in the screenshot is for Shokaku stock (for whatever reason), if that is the same reticle as the upgraded Shokaku rockets then that's actually a pretty hefty buff since the vertical dispersion has stayed the same but the horizontal dispersion is much better.

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20 minutes ago, Warped_1 said:

Ehh, not sure if it is a nerf or not.  Frankly I appreciate the horizontal aiming from the CV side and it always threw me changing CVs and having it being totally different.  Can also see how it would be frustrating to remember as prey which direction to turn to mitigate damage.  I think it is just a good quality of life change all around.

Well... the horizontal reticles, depending on how large/tall it's dispersion is, does require a bit more positioning from attacking planes to be  effective and it should give DDs a little chance to "dodge" better..  the Ranger rocket reticle has been this way for sometime.. and I still find it very effective,  Yet a skillful DD can really make you work to find the broadside.  ( IMO those rockets may be the nastiest in game for its tier)  but you have to get the correct angle to get maximum damage out of them.  The tighter circular targeting profiles from rocket planes do pretty much allow for idiot proof targeting regardless of direction of a targeted ship and or planes.. (except Saipan's, which are just garbage on DDs)  I mean this targeting skill check exist already for DBs & TBs.. this is probably a good step to make rocket planes a bit more challenging to use and allow for some mitigation from the DD.   as well a DD driver will always know to turn towards or away from any rocket plane attack.  As a plus the additional maneuvering will keep planes in AA aura longer?    We'll see....  depending on dispersion.. it will remain to see how much of a 'nerf" this really is?   against some larger targets, this could actually be a buff?    it should give a DD a bit more ability to mitigate by maneuvering?     

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25 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

They are moving in the right direction, they still have a ways to go to get back to the +300%.

You want DFAA to get back to 300%?

I can understand why it was needed for the RTS version but rework you're not getting Dev strike anymore by CV's.

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49 minutes ago, Warped_1 said:

Ehh, not sure if it is a nerf or not.  

20 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Whether or not this is actually a nerf or not depends on how the final dispersion turns out. 

Yeah, that's why I put the nerf in parenthesis. I think giving DDs a better idea on how to position to defend themselves will play out as a nerf in the end - but only time will tell.

And FWIW, I'm also fine with the change. 

 

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Not a nerf - a lot of CVs already have the "broadside attack" sight. Which is just a general guideline for rockets to fall.

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1 minute ago, HeadSplit120 said:

You want DFAA to get back to 300%?

I can understand why it was needed for the RTS version but rework you're not getting Dev strike anymore by CV's.

Yes, the US (and probably Russian) DDs should get their +300% DFAA back.  DFAA should also get panic back.  I would make one change to the panic effect, I would make it  not change on the plane's reticle so the CV player wouldn't know DFAA is active by looking at the reticle.  It would just be an unseen dispersion debuff.

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1 minute ago, Slimeball91 said:

Yes, the US (and probably Russian) DDs should get their +300% DFAA back.  DFAA should also get panic back.  I would make one change to the panic effect, I would make it  not change on the plane's reticle so the CV player wouldn't know DFAA is active by looking at the reticle.  It would just be an unseen dispersion debuff.

Current changes that are being looked at...

Air Detectability is being halved.  The reticle for all rocket planes is being changed to be the same across the board.  DFAA is being buffed.

The buff to DFAA isn't enough for you but you want 300% AND the panic effect.

I'd prefer you would just come out and say that you want DD's to be immune to attacks by CV's.

 

If the Air Detectability is being halved and this DFAA buff does get implemented.   DD's for the most part will be immune to CV's unless they get spotted by another ship or radar.  Fighter Consumable can still be used to spot but they don't exactly sit in the same spot.  They fly around moving in and out of range of ships, something to consider when DD's (some) will have around 1.5 km detection range by air.  They are not exactly very hard to shoot down in the current state.

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2 minutes ago, HeadSplit120 said:

I'd prefer you would just come out and say that you want DD's to be immune to attacks by CV's.

Buffing DFAA on a few DDs won't make all DDs immune to air attack.  It will mean CV players will have to be respectful of certain DDs.  That seems reasonable to me.

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DD's shouldn't be much of a threat to planes, period. Right now DD AA is unrealistic to the point of it being a big joke, down right comical. A DD out AA'ing a BB? What a load of horse manure.

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None of this matters for t5-t8 USN tech tree DD until you bring back the +2 flak puffs to slot 3 module. 

USN DD with DFAA was never about continuous DPS anyway.  It was about DFAA +300% to the flak puffs that could actually knock out half a squad before you take half your life in damage and lose your tubes to a single rocket squad.  

17DPS +75%  +100%  ?  Stroke Stroke.   

I welcome the targeting change though.  Might actually make a small difference to those who don't want to pay the smoke generator tax just because a plane is heading their direction.   DFAA still needs the panic... hell, I'll even take the worthless Tier4 AA skill for my captain if doing so would give DFAA the panic ability.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I think between the spotting change and the rocket reticle change, it may make a difference.  DDs don't need to kill the squad do 'win' an engagement, they just have to live through it.  Killing the planes is one way to do that, but isn't the only way.

I'm pretty anti CV, but that's mostly because (in my DD) I don't like the game design issue of the DD not being able to do much once spotted.

If the spotting change (shorter 'line up' time) with the reticle change makes it a more even contest between the DD's dodging skills vs the CV's rocketry skill, this has promise.

 

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6 hours ago, HeadSplit120 said:

I can understand why it was needed for the RTS version but rework you're not getting Dev strike anymore by CV's.

The sole reason why you cannot get dev struck anymore is because CV damage is applied sequentially rather than in a single attack. In a flat out race a reworked CV will kill a DD far faster than an RTS CV. The current record for a DD kill is approx. 70 seconds without a detonation. RTS planes at this point will still be flying across the map due to initial service and take off times.

The DFAA change won't change anything contrary to what you believe as 0 x 2 is still 0. The base DPS isn't strong enough to deter strikes or cause substantial losses even if doubled by DFAA.
To put this into perspective the DFAA in 0.8.5 granted a 300% DPS increase and had stronger base DPS to boot. It neither deterred strikes nor did it cause substantial losses. What makes you think a 100% increase with even weaker base DPS is gonna be any different?

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7 hours ago, StoptheViolins said:

Not a nerf - a lot of CVs already have the "broadside attack" sight. Which is just a general guideline for rockets to fall.

I believe only US CVs currently have a broadside attack reticle for rockets.

I know I have more success against DDs with RN & IJN rocket planes. The circular reticle means I don't care about target profile. Just bore in, lead, and shoot.

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46 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

The DFAA change won't change anything contrary to what you believe as 0 x 2 is still 0. The base DPS isn't strong enough to deter strikes or cause substantial losses even if doubled by DFAA.
To put this into perspective the DFAA in 0.8.5 granted a 300% DPS increase and had stronger base DPS to boot. It neither deterred strikes nor did it cause substantial losses. What makes you think a 100% increase with even weaker base DPS is gonna be any different?

I'd like to see DFAA keep the current multiplier, (or lightly buffed if desired) along with a negative effect on the planes' reticle, similar to the effects it had in RTS to "panic" planes.

Back then, DFAA was a viable choice even for ships with "meh" AA, because even though you wouldn't really shoot down more planes, you'd drastically reduce the effectiveness of the attack.

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3 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

I'd like to see DFAA keep the current multiplier, (or lightly buffed if desired) along with a negative effect on the planes' reticle, similar to the effects it had in RTS to "panic" planes.

This has already been rejected by WG in the discord Q&A a while ago. The reasoning was because planes already have to maneuver to avoid the instakill DFAA flak bursts and thus will be naturally less accurate.

I think they forgot that flak doesn't spawn on the final approach after you're within 3.5km of a ship anymore.
Or that even if it does spawn that you can simply dodge it by slowing down. 

:cap_hmm:

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6 hours ago, Slimeball91 said:

Buffing DFAA on a few DDs won't make all DDs immune to air attack.  It will mean CV players will have to be respectful of certain DDs.  That seems reasonable to me.

That's why I'd like to see DFAA cause a reduction in attack effectiveness.

Currently, you either lose most of your planes, or you rain hell on the target. A "panic" function for DFAA means that, while you don't really need to be "respectful" of certain DDs, (ie. you won't lose a lot of planes going after them) you also won't accomplish much.

It's a way to make ships a little more "slippery" and make maneuvering while under attack more meaningful.

As long as maneuvering while under attack basically does nothing except let you present a worse target profile, DDs are going to have to have god-tier AA to survive attacks, and CV players are going to complain about being wiped by DDs when BBs and CAs can't do it.

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Lol they still haven't touched DefAA  on premium US DDs.

Edited by Admiral_Bingo

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7 hours ago, StoptheViolins said:

Not a nerf - a lot of CVs already have the "broadside attack" sight. Which is just a general guideline for rockets to fall.

I feel like tiny tims or any plane with small but powerful salvos is going to have a hard time. Most of those rockets have a slow travel speed which doesnt work well when hitting something broadside.

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9 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

This has already been rejected by WG in the discord Q&A a while ago. The reasoning was because planes already have to maneuver to avoid the instakill DFAA flak bursts and thus will be naturally less accurate.

Which is a load of hooey. I have no problem putting steel on target while tightly maneuvering. (except the odd DD)

And it doesn't stop me from spending planes to bore straight in, if I'm so inclined.

Plus, as you said, 150% (or 300%) more of "meh" is still "meh". There's plenty of ships, especially in mid tiers, where I don't even bother to avoid flak because even buffed by DFAA, it's still anemic.

Quote

I think they forgot that flak doesn't spawn on the final approach after you're within 3.5km of a ship anymore.
Or that even if it does spawn that you can simply dodge it by slowing down. 

 

Yup, I think flak should spawn all the way in, and bursts should be at least semi-randomised.

If they could just get the interaction itself to "feel" more consistent across a range of player ability, numbers can always be adjusted to suit.

Edited by Skpstr

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This will be a buff for any CV with a circular rocket aiming. Indomitable is one. I think there is another but I cant remember.

Edited by Ban_CV_Complainers

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5 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

The sole reason why you cannot get dev struck anymore is because CV damage is applied sequentially rather than in a single attack. In a flat out race a reworked CV will kill a DD far faster than an RTS CV. The current record for a DD kill is approx. 70 seconds without a detonation. RTS planes at this point will still be flying across the map due to initial service and take off times.

You want to include the servicing time of RTS planes, alright fine.

How often in the current rework will a DD be destroyed with a single squadron of rocket planes?  I am going to assume its extremely rare.  In the event that it does happen, I'd say that DD player was near brain dead or the CV player was blessed with RNG.

Vs

A RTS CV with all its squadron's attacking at the same time, cross dropping and dev striking a DD?  I'm sure I can find plenty of youtube video's showing a DD being dev strike.

 

At least with the rework the DD player has an opportunity to at least reposition and maybe survive longer than you would in RTS.

Edited by HeadSplit120

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