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The_Boss_007

Invisible Ships

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I would like to ask everyone to join me in this.  I can understand that if a ship is 15 or 20 or more Kts away or goes invisible at this distances.  But 8Kts for a DD and Cruiser?  To be able to fire at this same time.  I would ask that NO one put any money into their hats (makers of this game), until this is fixed!  As of now, I'm not.  In fact, there are other facts that I would like to bring up as well.  I think they money their asking for this ships, points or what ever you want to call them is way to high.  If they gave more in points (in all 3 cats), after a battle it might be worth it.  From this day forth, I'm not adding anymore money until their hats until they fix at leas the invisible ships thing.

Thanks

Dan

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9 minutes ago, The_Boss_007 said:

I would like to ask everyone to join me in this.  I can understand that if a ship is 15 or 20 or more Kts away or goes invisible at this distances.  But 8Kts for a DD and Cruiser?  To be able to fire at this same time.  I would ask that NO one put any money into their hats (makers of this game), until this is fixed!  As of now, I'm not.  In fact, there are other facts that I would like to bring up as well.  I think they money their asking for this ships, points or what ever you want to call them is way to high.  If they gave more in points (in all 3 cats), after a battle it might be worth it.  From this day forth, I'm not adding anymore money until their hats until they fix at leas the invisible ships thing.

Thanks

Dan

if you think it is bad now wait till you get to higher tiers

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16 minutes ago, The_Boss_007 said:

I would like to ask everyone to join me in this.  I can understand that if a ship is 15 or 20 or more Kts away or goes invisible at this distances.  But 8Kts for a DD and Cruiser?  To be able to fire at this same time.  I would ask that NO one put any money into their hats (makers of this game), until this is fixed!  As of now, I'm not.  In fact, there are other facts that I would like to bring up as well.  I think they money their asking for this ships, points or what ever you want to call them is way to high.  If they gave more in points (in all 3 cats), after a battle it might be worth it.  From this day forth, I'm not adding anymore money until their hats until they fix at leas the invisible ships thing.

Thanks

Dan

Look it's another 'I'm not giving any more money' thread.  WHO CARES.  You really think thats going to make a change, especially to something that isn't broken?  Posts like this crack me up.  Trust me, there are plenty of players around the world to make up for the loss of what little money compared to the overall profit of the company they would lose from you.

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39 minutes ago, The_Boss_007 said:

I would like to ask everyone to join me in this.  I can understand that if a ship is 15 or 20 or more Kts away or goes invisible at this distances.  But 8Kts for a DD and Cruiser?  To be able to fire at this same time.  I would ask that NO one put any money into their hats (makers of this game), until this is fixed!  As of now, I'm not.  In fact, there are other facts that I would like to bring up as well.  I think they money their asking for this ships, points or what ever you want to call them is way to high.  If they gave more in points (in all 3 cats), after a battle it might be worth it.  From this day forth, I'm not adding anymore money until their hats until they fix at leas the invisible ships thing.

Thanks

Dan

the "invisible ships thing" is pretty much the core mechanic of wows, trying to rework that would mean your playing a different game, and its highly unlikely that WG would ever do it.

now there are two options for you (technically three) you can either accept that and carry on or you can not accept that and either still play but bring it up at every turn (fruitlessly i might add) or you can stop playing

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The real tragedy, is that this is not a player controlled economy.
Most of you would be shocked if it was.
I've played 2 games that had player controlled economies, and if this game was like that,
I would already own every premium ship in the game and premium time for years in advance.
That's how much money people throw at video games. It's staggering.

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44 minutes ago, The_Boss_007 said:

I would like to ask everyone to join me in this.  I can understand that if a ship is 15 or 20 or more Kts away or goes invisible at this distances.  But 8Kts for a DD and Cruiser?  To be able to fire at this same time.  I would ask that NO one put any money into their hats (makers of this game), until this is fixed!  As of now, I'm not.  In fact, there are other facts that I would like to bring up as well.  I think they money their asking for this ships, points or what ever you want to call them is way to high.  If they gave more in points (in all 3 cats), after a battle it might be worth it.  From this day forth, I'm not adding anymore money until their hats until they fix at leas the invisible ships thing.

Thanks

Dan

It's how the game actually works.

And before you think of retorting, read this.  It explains everything.

Once you understand how spotting and detection works, you can use it to make the other guy rage.  :cap_like:

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5 minutes ago, TobTorp said:

now there are two options for you (technically three) you can either accept that and carry on or you can not accept that and either still play but bring it up at every turn (fruitlessly i might add) or you can stop playing

Read this to CV and Sub complainers too.

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49 minutes ago, The_Boss_007 said:

I would like to ask everyone to join me in this.  I can understand that if a ship is 15 or 20 or more Kts away or goes invisible at this distances.  But 8Kts for a DD and Cruiser?  To be able to fire at this same time.  I would ask that NO one put any money into their hats (makers of this game), until this is fixed!  As of now, I'm not.  In fact, there are other facts that I would like to bring up as well.  I think they money their asking for this ships, points or what ever you want to call them is way to high.  If they gave more in points (in all 3 cats), after a battle it might be worth it.  From this day forth, I'm not adding anymore money until their hats until they fix at leas the invisible ships thing.

Thanks

Dan

Please post a replay and I bet you dollars to doughnuts that it can be easily explained.  

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45 minutes ago, The_Boss_007 said:

I would like to ask everyone to join me in this.  I can understand that if a ship is 15 or 20 or more Kts away or goes invisible at this distances.  But 8Kts for a DD and Cruiser?  To be able to fire at this same time.  I would ask that NO one put any money into their hats (makers of this game), until this is fixed!  As of now, I'm not.  In fact, there are other facts that I would like to bring up as well.  I think they money their asking for this ships, points or what ever you want to call them is way to high.  If they gave more in points (in all 3 cats), after a battle it might be worth it.  From this day forth, I'm not adding anymore money until their hats until they fix at leas the invisible ships thing.

1) "Kts" is a contraction for "knots", which is a nautical measurement of speed.  I think you meant to write "km", short for "kilometer", which is a measurement of distance.

2)  You are complaining about spotting mechanics.  The spotting mechanics are not broken.  They are performing exactly as they are explained in each ship's statistics.  You just don't yet understand them.  That is on you, not the game.

3)  WoWS is a free to play game.  You can spend money to acquire premium ships, or to accelerate your advancement through the tech tree.  However, that is completely optional.  If you choose to not spend money to play this game, it is not necessary for you to announce it on the forum to the other players.  You can continue to play for free without such an announcement.

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You do realize that 8km is about 5 miles right? Imagine something the size of a large 1-2 story house heading towards you >5 miles away, then add in that this object is about the same color as the sky and ocean on a cloudy or foggy day (which is most of the time) and is designed to have a low profile. This doesn't even take into account any wave movements.

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1 hour ago, Rollingonit said:

Pesky invisible boats.

Okay, now that’s funny. Definitely saving that one for the future. 

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you are correct the invisible ship thing does happen ....its been video confirmed .... its a desync bug ..and i think wows is working on this ..i have not had a ship disappear or magically appear at close range like it was doing since the last ranked sprint ...so i clap for you wows ...but hitting the invisible ship behind or on top of the ship your shooting at still happens but on a rare occasion now.....

if you think the spotting is wrong go to the tech tree find the ship in question and check its parameters it will tell you the concealment range  ect... its good to know especially torp range ...  if you think its way off then post the replay if you like 

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As a Light Cruiser I can generally pick on a BB that wont see me as long it does not be allowed to get inside my detection circle. UNLESS I am detected by 10Km radar, Aircraft, another ship like a DD that can be closer to me and I wont see him unless I also have either Hydro or Radar or close fast to uncover his shooting. I don't like to be detected. That means the whole team in range can shoot one time and boom im done. Game over.

Play differently. Pay attention to the situation. Money has nothing to do with it. I can sink everything with a Wyoming, Leander or some other ship generally deemed to be crappy. The showboat in the big million hitpoint juggernaut gets picked at until sunk by me. Just be faster than anything big enough to sink you (after catching you) and bigger than those faster enemies that can get in close like some DD's and sink you without you ever knowing or seeing them. Knowing they are there and being able to see them to shoot at all are two different problems. Radar solves one and smoke solves the other. In addition to firepower.

You will find that I constantly maintain a distance at least the detecting range to my ship from most enemies where possible. I know that as long as the game does not declare me detected when I do finally shoot the enemy don't see anything but incoming fire. With a little bit of dead reckoning they can put the mouse cursor somewhere on the map where the shooting is coming from and manage to land hits on me. Those are the dangerous players. These are the ones who pray over the tactical map in battle and examine the previously spotted enemy ships in grey or black that is not currently being seen but is confirmed to be here then and there now and figure out what range to enter into the guns (Look at your firing graphic on screen you will notice there is information at what range in Km to the second decimal where your shells will land...) generally you can shoot on a enemy ship coming out from behind a island while hidden and your shells will arrive there when it finally reveals itself. (Torps are better. If you can get them just far enough from the island to not explode while catching the enemy ship unable to have time to steer anywhere. Kaboom Inc is in the house.)

If your gaming keyboard has a clock timer, you can run it down to see how far a unseen enemy going in a straight line will travel one KM closer to you. You will start shooting torps, say 8KM torp range against enemies still about 11 km because by the time they get to 8KM from where you fired your torps are causing them problems already. So they look around closer than you really are. Its alot of thinking that goes into the game situation. Then again you can behave as a stone age human with knucke dragging and big clubs shooting big shells until sunk by those no see uns ... ha.. be fast.

If the OP thinks this is TLDR then he or she is more than welcome to dump money into the game product or find something else to play like star trek or something.

Edited by xHeavy
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Concealment can be frustrating. Plus Radar was in wide use in the era this game is set. Even the IJN had spotting radar. Yes, this is a game, not a simulator but in the hands of a skilled DD driver concealment works like a cloaking device.

My comment are not to call for a change but to say it is reasonable to experience frustration from time to time over the concealment mechanic. 

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Spotting / Concealment / Stealth Mechanics, OP.  You're new and I understand how weird that stuff can be.  Take time to read up on this here:

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Detection

Not understanding how concealment works in this game is IMO, the first great hurdle of any new player.

 

Different ships have different distances in where they can be spotted, but generally, the smaller the ship the stealthier it is.  DDs are the stealthiest, Battleships are terrible in concealment and can be spotted pretty far, and Cruisers are somewhere in the middle.

How do people improve concealment of their ships?

1.  Concealment Expert trait in tier 4

2.  Most types of camo

3.  Concealment Systems Mod 1 upgrade for Slot 5 equipment.  Typically this is only for Tier VIII+ ships but there are a rare few ships below Tier VIII that access this upgrade slot.

 

You'll hear people talk about "Stealth Build" sometimes, which means incorporating as many of those above elements as possible to have excellent concealment.  DDs for example, some get to around mid-5km surface detection with Full Stealth Builds.  Some Battleships actually get down to around 12km with Stealth Build.

 

The other fact that probably makes you see targets go in / out of your spotting is Gun Bloom Detection.  Let's say your opponent is a Tier VIII Heavy Cruiser Baltimore with a Stealth Build.  His surface detection range with that build is 9.9km, i.e. you need to be at that distance or closer to spot him in open water.  For this example, you're 13km away from him, so you couldn't spot him normally.

But he fires his gun at someone.  There's something called "Gun Bloom" in this game where when you fire your guns, your detection range spikes up to the max range of your guns.  In Baltimore's case with that build, the max range is 15.83km, so his detection range now spikes up to 15.83km.  From your distance at 13km, now you can see him.

From that first link I posted:

"Firing main guns

Firing main guns will increase sea detectability ("bloom") to the current maximum range of the main guns. Air detectability will also increase by a smaller amount depending on the ship (and it is possible in this situation for air detectability range to exceed sea detectability, e.g. Konig). If the ship is detected because of the bloom, detectability will reset after 20 seconds. However, if the ship leaves the enemy's line of sight (e.g. by hiding behind an island), detectability will reset 2 seconds after that. If the ship remains undetected at the moment of the bloom, it will reset immediately."

 

If someone has LOS to that Baltimore when he fired, i.e. you in this case, he'll be spotted when he fired, as long as they are in his gun range for the "bloom."  If he keeps spamming his guns at someone, with the current conditions (LOS is established;  In range), he will remain spotted.  But if he stopped firing, after 20 seconds, his detection "bloom" from his guns goes away and his concealment goes back to 9.9km.

If you were still at 13km, then you'll lose him and he'll go back into stealth.

----

I stress again how important it is to learn concealment / spotting mechanics.  If you don't understand how this works then players that do will have a huge advantage over you.  There is a lot of gameplay based around concealment, stealth, spotting.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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13 hours ago, The_Boss_007 said:

I would like to ask everyone to join me in this.  I can understand that if a ship is 15 or 20 or more KMs away or goes invisible at this distances.  But 8KMs for a DD and Cruiser?  To be able to fire at this same time.  I would ask that NO one put any money into their hats (makers of this game), until this is fixed!  As of now, I'm not.  In fact, there are other facts that I would like to bring up as well.  I think they money their asking for this ships, points or what ever you want to call them is way to high.  If they gave more in points (in all 3 cats), after a battle it might be worth it.  From this day forth, I'm not adding anymore money until their hats until they fix at leas the invisible ships thing.

Thanks

Dan

 

12 hours ago, mpwardawg said:

Please post a replay and I bet you dollars to doughnuts that it can be easily explained.  

yeah, no one ever posts a reply anymore, because then they would be proved wrong. And they can't have that.

 

12 hours ago, Raven_of_Norway said:

Look it's another 'I'm not giving any more money' thread.  WHO CARES.  You really think thats going to make a change, especially to something that isn't broken?  Posts like this crack me up.  Trust me, there are plenty of players around the world to make up for the loss of what little money compared to the overall profit of the company they would lose from you.

^ pretty much this.

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13 hours ago, mpwardawg said:

Please post a replay and I bet you dollars to doughnuts that it can be easily explained.  

It will 100% be explainable , This gentleman simply does not understand or like the concealment mechanics the game.  

Edited by eviltane

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2 hours ago, eviltane said:

It will 100% be explainable , This gentleman simply does not understand or like the concealment mechanics the game.  

Yep, had to ask.  There should be a pop up when the forums detect an angry thread to supply a replay 😆

Edited by mpwardawg
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Spotting mechanics can be difficult to understand, as they are way too unrealistic/ illogical.

You can see shells coming from nowhere, or BBs undetected by as DD.

Top height for USS Missouri is almost 64m. That's a 20 stores building. It is probably the highest point in Pearl Harbor base.

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You can totally see submerged subs so that should be fun. No worries m8

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