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Dr_Venture

German Tier 8 CV - August von Parseval

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FYI it's terrible in tier X WAAAAAAAAY too much AA.

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17 minutes ago, Dr_Venture said:

FYI it's terrible in tier X WAAAAAAAAY too much AA.

The pretty much sums up ALL the German CVs, if you're bottom tier the top tier AA proves you basically useless. To quote my experience on the Tier 6 CV from the EU forums post.

Basically it seems like that they suffer from the same problem as RN CVs, that is hyper-specialization. The RN CVs are all about Damage over Time with floods and fires, while the KM CVs have no DoT focus at all but CAN, if they get very lucky, do good burst damage. I don't see them as replacing the (for the tech tree variants) IJN CVs as the go to since they have hard hitting fast torps, Rocket Planes to deal with DDs AND AP bombs for cruisers and BBs along with their Torps. The IJN CVs just do everything decent enough if you're a skilled CV captain. Meanwhile for us scrubby ones, the US CVs still provide a much greater damage output for much more ease of play than the German CVs.

The main problem for the tier 6 CV is that it doesn't get enough of what it needs (the Ranger could do with 1 more HE bomb per attack, the Furious also needs more bombs in a tighter spread similar to the Ark Royal). Realistically it should have a 3 torpedo spread to better catch out DDs OR an additional AP bomb in the drop. Mind you this is the case for any tier 6 CV that isn't the Ryujo, all the rest pale in comparison to her at tier 6 whilst things are slightly more equal (again tech tree wise) once you hit tier 8 for the US and IJN CV lines (the RN tier 8 CV is basically a joke).

 

Edited by Yandere_Roon
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I've been bottom tier in nearly every game in Parsaval over the two days I've had it. You get used to it after a while. You have to be careful about what you attack and when you attack it. You really just don't attack ships that are clumped up. The planes completely disintegrate even with max buffs. In the beginning you have to wait for the targets to spread out a bit. You go after the speedy guys out front or the slackers in the back. If you have to attack go FAST. 

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1 hour ago, Yandere_Roon said:

The pretty much sums up ALL the German CVs, if you're bottom tier the top tier AA proves you basically useless. To quote my experience on the Tier 6 CV from the EU forums post.

Basically it seems like that they suffer from the same problem as RN CVs, that is hyper-specialization. The RN CVs are all about Damage over Time with floods and fires, while the KM CVs have no DoT focus at all but CAN, if they get very lucky, do good burst damage. I don't see them as replacing the (for the tech tree variants) IJN CVs as the go to since they have hard hitting fast torps, Rocket Planes to deal with DDs AND AP bombs for cruisers and BBs along with their Torps. The IJN CVs just do everything decent enough if you're a skilled CV captain. Meanwhile for us scrubby ones, the US CVs still provide a much greater damage output for much more ease of play than the German CVs.

The main problem for the tier 6 CV is that it doesn't get enough of what it needs (the Ranger could do with 1 more HE bomb per attack, the Furious also needs more bombs in a tighter spread similar to the Ark Royal). Realistically it should have a 3 torpedo spread to better catch out DDs OR an additional AP bomb in the drop. Mind you this is the case for any tier 6 CV that isn't the Ryujo, all the rest pale in comparison to her at tier 6 whilst things are slightly more equal (again tech tree wise) once you hit tier 8 for the US and IJN CV lines (the RN tier 8 CV is basically a joke).

 

You have to remember that Tier 4 and 6 are training-wheel tiers for CVs.

Tier 4 is about introducing slow, low-damage gameplay (although the German CV is the most fully formed at Tier 4) so you can learn how to shoot.  AA and plane speeds are deliberately low so that players can have their first CV experience at Tier 4.
Note: The Hosho and Langley having double torps is a mistake.  They used to drop single torps and WG altered them to more accurately reflect higher-tier gameplay, but the damage numbers got thrown sharply out of whack with the double-torp introduction.

Tier 6 introduces flak that isn't just single, random puffs...  however the flak is extremely avoidable.  AA is increased so that you can't bathe in it, but it's still low enough to allow players to line up shots and practice shooting at slightly higher speeds.  Damage is increased, but only to a point where you feel somewhat relevant.  Tier 6 is NOT designed to be a carry tier.

Tier 8 is where you have the first fully-formed CV gameplay with adequate amounts of AA and Flak.  CV damage is strong enough to pose a serious threat if top-tier, but a mitigated threat against stronger AA and grouped ships.  The planes speeds and sizes are increased to a point where a player can very quickly whelp all their planes and actually run out of them for a significant time.  In general, the gameplay is MUCH faster then Tier 6.

Tier 10 is the fastest gameplay with the largest AA/Flak/Damage numbers.  It's the experience of a Tier 8 that is speed up, much like a fighting game where the sequel is released and everything is sped up by 20%.

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2 minutes ago, Ahskance said:

You have to remember that Tier 4 and 6 are training-wheel tiers for CVs.

Tier 4 is about introducing slow, low-damage gameplay (although the German CV is the most fully formed at Tier 4) so you can learn how to shoot.  AA and plane speeds are deliberately low so that players can have their first CV experience at Tier 4.
Note: The Hosho and Langley having double torps is a mistake.  They used to drop single torps and WG altered them to more accurately reflect higher-tier gameplay, but the damage numbers got thrown sharply out of whack with the double-torp introduction.

Tier 6 introduces flak that isn't just single, random puffs...  however the flak is extremely avoidable.  AA is increased so that you can't bathe in it, but it's still low enough to allow players to line up shots and practice shooting at slightly higher speeds.  Damage is increased, but only to a point where you feel somewhat relevant.  Tier 6 is NOT designed to be a carry tier.

Tier 8 is where you have the first fully-formed CV gameplay with adequate amounts of AA and Flak.  CV damage is strong enough to pose a serious threat if top-tier, but a mitigated threat against stronger AA and grouped ships.  The planes speeds and sizes are increased to a point where a player can very quickly whelp all their planes and actually run out of them for a significant time.  In general, the gameplay is MUCH faster then Tier 6.

Tier 10 is the fastest gameplay with the largest AA/Flak/Damage numbers.  It's the experience of a Tier 8 that is speed up, much like a fighting game where the sequel is released and everything is sped up by 20%.

That would be fine IF the tier 6 and 8 could not be up tiered...but they are. So that design choice makes literally NO god damn sense...in fact that entire statement seems completely daft BECAUSE CVs are frequently uptiered...like I said, it's nonsensical and utterly disprovable by the fact the Ryujo and Ark Royal exist. Both CVs at tier 6 that can easily carry games even in a tier 8 match...It's just the OTHER tier 6 CVs, the Ranger, the Furious and the Weser who completely suck because of some weird design.

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2 minutes ago, Yandere_Roon said:

That would be fine IF the tier 6 and 8 could not be up tiered...but they are. So that design choice makes literally NO god damn sense...in fact that entire statement seems completely daft BECAUSE CVs are frequently uptiered...like I said, it's nonsensical and utterly disprovable by the fact the Ryujo and Ark Royal exist. Both CVs at tier 6 that can easily carry games even in a tier 8 match...It's just the OTHER tier 6 CVs, the Ranger, the Furious and the Weser who completely suck because of some weird design.

I disagree, but such is life.

As to being uptiered, all ships have that experience.  CVs are the most "shut out" by it, though various surface ships have very hard times being uptiered (Tier 7 DDs and cruisers for instance).

While it can be extremely unpleasant to be uptiered, the enemy CV is in the exact same situation as you are.  You just do what you can with the tools provided.

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1 minute ago, Ahskance said:

I disagree, but such is life.

As to being uptiered, all ships have that experience.  CVs are the most "shut out" by it, though various surface ships have very hard times being uptiered (Tier 7 DDs and cruisers for instance).

While it can be extremely unpleasant to be uptiered, the enemy CV is in the exact same situation as you are.  You just do what you can with the tools provided.

I'm not some newbie CV player, I have been playing them a while on both EU and NA, I'd rather NOT have the patronizing tone thank you :fish_palm:. Like I said that tier 6 is purposefully designed to be 'shoddy because it had training wheels' is an absurd mentality that is probably WHY we end up with crap CVs at tier 6 (again apart from the Ark Royal and Ryujo). I wouldn't call tier 6 'training wheels' it just that for the life of them WG can't seem to ever design a good Tech Tree CV at tier 6 that ISN'T the Ryujo because it does everything well enough AND if one of its tools fails, the other (whether that's AP bombs or Torps) will usually pick up the slack. Meanwhile the other tech tree CVs don't do their 'gimmick' well enough to really compensate until tier 8. 

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45 minutes ago, Yandere_Roon said:

Like I said that tier 6 is purposefully designed to be 'shoddy because it had training wheels' is an absurd mentality that is probably WHY we end up with crap CVs at tier 6 (again apart from the Ark Royal and Ryujo).

Yo, nice to see you around here. Enjoy your stay, it is a funny place.
Also finally embracing your inner weeb I see? :Smile_trollface:

Ranger is perfectly fine for her tier too. _Warfarin_ over on EU swears by Furious for some reason, don't ask me why.

The primary issue with T6 CVs quite frankly is that they are in the middle of the two most powerful tiers in CV play . T4 can be utterly dominated to the point where you can claw back ridiculous ship/point differences. T8 can comfortably carry even in T10 matches while utterly dominating T6 to an even harsher degree than T4. You don't get that with T6. You can do very well in same/top tier matches while having to play from behind in bottom tier ones, but that's it. You can't just single-handedly carry a T8 match even in a Ryujo like you potentially can with Shokaku in T10. That makes them feel lackluster.

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2 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Yo, nice to see you around here. Enjoy your stay, it is a funny place.
Also finally embracing your inner weeb I see? :Smile_trollface:

Ranger is perfectly fine for her tier too. _Warfarin_ over on EU swears by Furious for some reason, don't ask me why.

The primary issue with T6 CVs quite frankly is that they are in the middle of the two most powerful tiers in CV play . T4 can be utterly dominated to the point where you can claw back ridiculous ship/point differences. T8 can comfortably carry even in T10 matches while utterly dominating T6 to an even harsher degree than T4. You don't get that with T6. You can do very well in same/top tier matches while having to play from behind in bottom tier ones, but that's it. You can't just single-handedly carry a T8 match even in a Ryujo like you potentially can with Shokaku in T10. That makes them feel lackluster.

We both know that _Warfarin_ is just a weirdo who loves his Furious :Smile_teethhappy:.

I suppose that's probably the case, it's just that even in top tier matches the current German CVs tier 6 feels very lackluster, It's like, as I said, it doesn't get enough of its 'gimmick' to really stand out. The AP rockets don't hit hard enough, the AB bombs love to go to the outside of the circle (shared with the Graf Zeppelin it seems) so only having 2 is a PITA and its torps might as well not exist. I HAVE killed DDs with them but the fact there's only two leaves a nice DD sized hole for them to slip through.

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The AP Bombs go outside of the circle very often. The AP rockets don't really do enough damage tbh. I've hit ships for 2x citadels and gotten like...4000 dmg. 

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19 hours ago, Dr_Venture said:

FYI it's terrible in tier X WAAAAAAAAY too much AA.

But... but... CV is unanswerable and the God of Death, and AA is totally useless! Every CV hater on the forum says so! /sarc

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25 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

But... but... CV is unanswerable and the God of Death, and AA is totally useless! Every CV hater on the forum says so! /sarc

See I used to complain a lot about CV's. Someone suggested I try it and realized just how difficult it was to pull it off. Granted these were the RTS days and so on and so fourth. 

I feel like the gameplay for CV's is great...issue being is you're alone CV attacking a fleet. You have a game mode like epicenter and you're boned. Ships cluster and you get deplaned FAST. 

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12 minutes ago, Dr_Venture said:

Granted these were the RTS days and so on and so fourth. 

My feelings about comparing the two are mixed. There are many things that were better about RTS - for one thing, as a Langley or Hosho captain, I could use fighters to directly attack enemy DB/TB attacking my AA-less ships. On the other hand, as a Bogue fighting Independences or Rangers, I faced ships that had strafing (where I didn't) and captains who, when I finally got to the Independence a few weeks before the end, were so much better at it that they would murder my fighters without much contest and then go on to munch my attack planes.

So having to not deal with that AND juggle multiple squadrons at the same time was something that was very good about Rework, even if I had to learn how to manipulate my air groups all over again, and in the end it's worth the absolutely rotten economic performance I get out of carriers in co-op (where beforehand I could make good bank; I kept records, and my credit income for T6 CV just dropped straight off the day Rework went live). 

I'm no longer prepared to listen to anyone who starts from the premise that they need to be removed from the game. My ignore list has grown hugely in the last year, which is more than a little depressing in its own right. 

The only thing I hate as a CV driver more than a doom cluster (especially in the Indomitable, which has no torps and can't stay at something resembling arm's length) is a good Halland driver when the DD needs to be found and killed by you and you alone. They're not even sighted before you walk into their AA bubble, and then they pop sector and DFAA and your entire full-strength flight disappears before you can push F to try and recall it.  That ship is disproportionate and needs to be detuned just a touch. 

On a related note, I have been driving destroyers which aren't the Halland in Randoms a lot more lately (especially when I was grinding the Swirski thing), and I haven't seen the world ending. 

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu

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21 hours ago, Dr_Venture said:

FYI it's terrible in tier X WAAAAAAAAY too much AA.

I didnt think it was too bad. Definitely not "easy", but not terrible either.

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Totally with you on this. I used to be one of those people who thought CVs were just point and click win machines so I decided to try them out. Wow....they are not nearly as easy as some people make them (who haven't driven them) out to be. 

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2 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

But... but... CV is unanswerable and the God of Death, and AA is totally useless! Every CV hater on the forum says so! /sarc

 

qKOfzFO.gif

CV be haters be like how dare you call out our exaggerations on CV :Smile_teethhappy: So what if CV are not OP and AA shreds their planes they are OP cause we say so :Smile_popcorn:

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19 hours ago, tzerhyn said:

Parseval planes make Shokaku planes feel tanky.

You would be correct, however I think after watching TopTier I was doing it wrong.

The key is to use your boost on the way into the target and out. Also pop the heal when the flak starts to get heavy. 

I also realized I was AP bombing wrong. Start your drop a boat length AHEAD of the target and then do your drop. The citadels literally pile up!

The torpedos are basically just a filler, they aren't that good tbh. Her AP bombs are the moneymaker.

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I found something interesting in the Rhein last night when I was playing in co-op, getting used to her aircraft. I was approaching the target BB broadside because bots dodge like that, and I thought yeah, it's suboptimal but let's do it anyway. We need to see what happens under these circumstances.

Blow me down if the bombs did not drop to the left and right of the reticle, on a line perpendicular to its long axis and consequently parallel to that of the ship, both whacking perfectly into the target. @Dr_Venture, have you noticed this in the Parseval at all?

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu

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1 minute ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

I found something interesting in the Rhein last night when I was playing in co-op, getting used to her aircraft. I was approaching the target BB broadside because bots dodge like that, and I thought yeah, it's suboptimal but let's do it anyway. We need to see what happens under these circumstances.

Blow me down if the bombs did not drop to the left and right of the reticle, on a line perpendicular to its long axis and consequently parallel to that of the ship, both whacking perfectly into the target. @Dr_Venture, have you noticed this in the Parseval at all?

Yup, the drops are very RNG'y. I've had a damn near a perfect drop and it just goes to the side left or right. Sometimes I go in for a dirty drop during AA panic and get a citadel...it's nuts sometimes.

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7 hours ago, Dr_Venture said:

You would be correct, however I think after watching TopTier I was doing it wrong.

The key is to use your boost on the way into the target and out. Also pop the heal when the flak starts to get heavy. 

I also realized I was AP bombing wrong. Start your drop a boat length AHEAD of the target and then do your drop. The citadels literally pile up!

The torpedos are basically just a filler, they aren't that good tbh. Her AP bombs are the moneymaker.

Her torps are quite good actually...

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2 minutes ago, Tigermaus said:

Her torps are quite good actually...

The line/drop is nice, the dmg output is so so. My issue is when I'm bottom tier and flak chews me up, that one strike I can get off is...iffy at best.

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Just now, Dr_Venture said:

The line/drop is nice, the dmg output is so so. My issue is when I'm bottom tier and flak chews me up, that one strike I can get off is...iffy at best.

You should be able to hit with all 3 fairly consistently though (They are quite fast). The benefit in them is being able to stack the damage. Fly in land 3 torps, bail. Since the German CVs cant do DOT damage outside of torps though, I do think a little damage buff would be welcome.

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2 minutes ago, Tigermaus said:

You should be able to hit with all 3 fairly consistently though (They are quite fast). The benefit in them is being able to stack the damage. Fly in land 3 torps, bail. Since the German CVs cant do DOT damage outside of torps though, I do think a little damage buff would be welcome.

I went with excel for the torps to land more torps faster. The German CV is all about "boom and zoom," PERIOD.

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