Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.
crazynewt76

Mainz HE

6 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

26
[LILBB]
Members
48 posts
3,653 battles

Just want to point out a possible bug, or something.

 

My past few games in her, I've noticed a lack of fires.  I am used to quite a few more fires when I play any other nation, but for some reason, all KM ships just can't set anything on fire.

 

In the last battle, I got 104 hits with my main MAINs guns, without any fires at all.  I checked the base chance of setting a fire with the guns and it states a 10.5% chance.   I would have expected at least one fire, but NONE??

 

 

I know something must be broken.

Edited by crazynewt76

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32,562
[HINON]
Alpha Tester
24,165 posts
19,031 battles

This again ...

Ships have an innate fire reduction built in, a higher reduction as you go up the tiers. Tier 10 ships for example have a 50% reduction if I'm not mistaken. This can be increased with captain skills, and modules. So that means a less than 5% fire chance. Then there's the RNG factor. Just because your fire chance is 5% (Let's round it to that for ease of math) doesn't mean that every one in twenty shells should start a fire. It means that for every shell impact, there's a 5% chance. Gambler's fallacy is a thing, and prior results do not influence future ones. Then there's sample size. 104 hits is a very small sample. Finally, if you hit a portion of a ship that's already on fire (from someone else), it can not start a fire.

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
274
[ALWC]
Members
1,180 posts
14,100 battles

From several games I have played in Mainz she is no fire bug. Mostly what Lert said but her DPM is just slow enough to not be a smoli or Colbert. RNG plays a huge part. I did have 1 game with 11 fires. Her HE is solid and pens great. She is a good cruiser when played well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10,644
[WOLF3]
Members
27,081 posts
23,857 battles
20 minutes ago, Lert said:

This again ...

Ships have an innate fire reduction built in, a higher reduction as you go up the tiers. Tier 10 ships for example have a 50% reduction if I'm not mistaken. This can be increased with captain skills, and modules. So that means a less than 5% fire chance. Then there's the RNG factor. Just because your fire chance is 5% (Let's round it to that for ease of math) doesn't mean that every one in twenty shells should start a fire. It means that for every shell impact, there's a 5% chance. Gambler's fallacy is a thing, and prior results do not influence future ones. Then there's sample size. 104 hits is a very small sample. Finally, if you hit a portion of a ship that's already on fire (from someone else), it can not start a fire.

I want to add that even with ships that are known "Fire Breathers" you can get games where RNG flips you off and you get next to no Fires.

 

People bitterly complain about 410mm x12 armed Conqueror and her MEGA ZAO SUPER BB HE SHELLS! but there were games even in long Random Battles where all I got were 1-2 fires.  I have had games in Zao where the fires just weren't coming.

 

You have to keep hammering away.  More dice rolls for Fire Chances, hope you get lucky and set some fires.  But even then, you can roll Snake Eyes.

 

A last thing I want to add is that Mainz's Fire Chance of 8%, 10% with Demo Expert taken, is fantastic given her 38mm HE Pen.

 

If any normal High Tier 152mm armed CL wanted to compete with that, they need IFHE.

Cleveland 30mm default HE Pen, 12% fire chance.  That HE Pen really sucks and there's a lot of armor sections she'd fail to pen out there, not even High Tier RN / FR BB decks that are 32mm.

So if Cleveland...

Took IFHE fore improved Pen and DE to mitigate the Fire Chance Penalty from IFHE, she'd be at 37mm HE Pen and 8% Fire Chance.

Only took DE:  30mm HE Pen, 14% Fire Chance

 

Also note that Mainz's 38mm HE Pen lets her Pen the decks of all High Tier USN BBs, which are all at 38mm.  Worcester, Cleveland, Seattle, Bayard get lots of Non-pens against USN BBs.

Mainz will just farm away.  Her Pen is better and her final build, true fire chances are still better than what High Tier USN CLs and Bayard get.  Even the 180mm armed Russian CLs (like Dmitri Donskoi) have the same HE Pen as normal 152mm like Cleveland.  Mainz is still better.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
805
[WOLFC]
Members
1,671 posts
9,497 battles
1 hour ago, wstugamd said:

From several games I have played in Mainz she is no fire bug. Mostly what Lert said but her DPM is just slow enough to not be a smoli or Colbert. RNG plays a huge part. I did have 1 game with 11 fires. Her HE is solid and pens great. She is a good cruiser when played well. 

Mainz is a good “fire bug” in comparison to other 150-155mm armed CLs because she doesn’t need IFHE to pen battleship plating, and thus doesn’t lose half her fire chance before taking anything else into account. It doesn’t really make sense to compare her to Colbert and Smolensk, as they mount DD-caliber guns and are two tiers higher. In addition, theoretical DPM is all well and good, but a shell that shatters on the target’s armor deals zero damage. Effective DPM is much more difficult to compare when there is a significant difference in penetration.

Cleveland at tier VIII has a reputation for being the best fire-starter among the 150-155mm armed cruisers at her tier. 12 barrels, 6.5s reload, and 12% fire chance works out to a theoretical 13.3 fires per minute, assuming 100% accuracy and not taking into account the target’s fire resistance. This drops to 6.7 if you take IFHE to be able to pen battleship plating (37mm pen), which most players at high tiers are likely to do. For Mainz, the same calculation works out to 9.6, or ~43% higher than IFHE Cleveland. If you compare her to IFHE Chapayev, which is arguably a better comparison considering their comparable range and more similar ballistics, it’s 9.6 vs. 5.4 (78% higher). By this same calculation, IFHE 155mm Mogami would set 4.5 fires per minute. And keep in mind Mainz does this without using 4 points to spec IFHE.

It’s this combination of high pen and comparatively high fire chance that makes Mainz’s HE so powerful. Her AP will also shred anything that gives broadside at medium-to-close range. At this time, the German 150mm is probably the best CL-caliber gun in the game.

Edited by Nevermore135

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,482
[WOLF8]
Members
7,345 posts
6,239 battles

My personal experience says that Mainz is some of the best fire starter in the game, thanks to the quirks and traits of her guns, especially the built-in IFHE.

However, as both Lert and Haze pointed out, there're many other factors that make things to swing both ways, wildly. So just because Mainz is some of the best fire starter, it doesn't mean that anyone is guaranteed to have certain "X number of fires" every time. That's not how RNG works. At this point in time, anyone playing any game with some kind of RNG system should know and understand this.

On some days, you're gonna have a good streak of pyromancy (lol), while on some other days you get nothing but wetlands. Simple at that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×