Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
Aaron_S_Merrill

Petropavlovsk - balans Komrades!

44 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

504
[BOTO]
Members
1,262 posts
15,451 battles

Petropavlovsk just may be a bit overpowered.  360 degree turrets?   Railguns with AP pen comparable to battleship pen?  Stealth radar?  Great armor scheme?  

A cruiser that can citadel battleships out over 15km away just might have a bit too much pen.  Her only shortcomings are crappy dispersion beyond 13km or so and her huge turning circle.  Oh, her HE isn't that great but you're pretty much going to stick with AP against all but the most angled targets.

One of the few ships I've ever gotten that definitely lives up to the hype.

  • Cool 1
  • Boring 1
  • Meh 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
506
[GGWP]
Beta Testers
1,661 posts
8,800 battles

It's a less powerful Stalingrad. 

It's a Stalingr.

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
467
[ICBM]
Members
825 posts
9,371 battles

The radar is really short duration. I'll take that over moskva/stalin radar any day. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
89
[MHG]
Members
71 posts
3,252 battles

It's a lot like Stalingrad, which is to say, the moment your enemies start angling, your main gimmick of insane guns and hard hitting shells becomes useless. That with the low sitting icebreaker really makes this ship a questionable pushing cruiser when facing good players. The entire gimmick of the ship relies on your enemies being potatoes. 

  • Cool 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
504
[BOTO]
Members
1,262 posts
15,451 battles
2 minutes ago, Fatalimpulse said:

It's a lot like Stalingrad, which is to say, the moment your enemies start angling, your main gimmick of insane guns and hard hitting shells becomes useless. That with the low sitting icebreaker really makes this ship a questionable pushing cruiser when facing good players. The entire gimmick of the ship relies on your enemies being potatoes. 

I have a feeling you haven't played Petro.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,715
[SOFOP]
Members
2,439 posts
14,361 battles

I have to laugh at the fact that the ship, which would have primarily sailed in fairly rough seas, is lower in the water than some destroyers.  The ship would have been a risk to even leave port on a windy day.  Benefits of paper ships I guess.

  • Cool 4
  • Funny 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,051 posts
9,827 battles
1 minute ago, Fatalimpulse said:

It's a lot like Stalingrad, which is to say, the moment your enemies start angling, your main gimmick of insane guns and hard hitting shells becomes useless. That with the low sitting icebreaker really makes this ship a questionable pushing cruiser when facing good players. The entire gimmick of the ship relies on your enemies being potatoes. 

+1.  While the ship can be strong, it is fairly situational.  Even if you catch a good cruiser player broadside, you usually get one shot before he's angled for the next one.  Also, outside of it's detection range, the dispersion makes getting more than a couple cits at a time difficult unless you've contributed to the RNGesus collection plate recently.  Once angled, the HE dpm makes trading shots with boats like DM or even Moskva a losing battle. Overall I'm unimpressed with it's damage dealing...  I find Nevsky much more versatile. 

Now, one thing I am impressed with is how tanky the ship is.  Definitely tougher than Moskva, which was kinda tanky already.

 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,051 posts
9,827 battles
9 minutes ago, Aaron_S_Merrill said:

I have a feeling you haven't played Petro.

The thing about Stalingrad is it has the dispersion and alpha to only need one shot... Petro needs more time.  It's a good ship, but I dunno about OP.

BTW - yes I've played it.

Edited by YouSatInGum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
746 posts

I donked the donk out of a div of 2 Petros yesterday in my Hindy. People who have them must think "ice breaker" = bow tank, forgetting that it is still a cruiser. If you are a cruiser you don't want to wind up reversing in open water.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8,655
[CMFRT]
[CMFRT]
Members
15,738 posts
16 minutes ago, Old_Baldy_One said:

I have to laugh at the fact that the ship, which would have primarily sailed in fairly rough seas, is lower in the water than some destroyers.  The ship would have been a risk to even leave port on a windy day.  Benefits of paper ships I guess.

Compare to some of the newer cruisers from RN and RM, which appear to have special flotation systems built in to keep them high in the water.

It's funky.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
504
[BOTO]
Members
1,262 posts
15,451 battles
32 minutes ago, YouSatInGum said:

The thing about Stalingrad is it has the dispersion and alpha to only need one shot... Petro needs more time.  It's a good ship, but I dunno about OP.

BTW - yes I've played it.

 

Which is why my exact words were "just may be a bit overpowered."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9,731
[INTEL]
Members
13,068 posts
36,066 battles
1 hour ago, Fatalimpulse said:

\. The entire gimmick of the ship relies on your enemies being potatoes. 

This should not be a problem at T10.

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
111 posts
5,439 battles

Why is it that any time I see someone say the Petro is OP they either forget the downsides, or completely underplay them? I'm not saying the petro is weak or doesn't have some insane strengths, but it has plenty of downsides to offset them.

Petro also has:

1. A large citadel. Not mino level of cit, but well above the water line.

2. Huge turning circle, like 990 meters. I have all the current t10 silver BBs, and the only ones with a larger circle is Krem and GKF. Actually, the Yammy only has a 900m turning circle now.

3.  Battleship levels of turret rotation. Even with 360 degree turning guns, that is a long time. I mean, how is the Krem having cruiser levels of turret rotation considered strong, but petro having BB levels of turret rotation not even mentioned as a weakness?

4. 9 rifles on a 13 second reload. Compared to DMs 9 rifles on a 5.5 second reload, that is over twice as many shells.

5. Bad HE dps. DPS so bad its almost not worth even having on the ship, the only benefit to the HE is that you can pinpoint hit DDs or parts of BBs if they are close enough.

6. The radar, although 12KM and longer range than the concealment, last only 15 seconds without buffs. If you immediately shoot after using it, you will get in one more salvo, that's it. If you take more than a few seconds to aim (which is likely considering the turret turn time), you will get only one shot.

 

Heck, even your teammates will only get 9 seconds to shoot before your radar runs out. The hindy, one of the fastest shooting CAs will barely get in two salvos before the radar is over.

Edited by JimmyTheRealPirate
typo
  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8,655
[CMFRT]
[CMFRT]
Members
15,738 posts
4 minutes ago, JimmyTheRealPirate said:

Why is it that any time I see someone say the Petro is OP they either forget the downsides, or completely underplay them?

Because it's a Russian ship, and a chunk of the playerbase has some strange hangup about "bias" and "OP" when it comes to anything Russian, that goes beyond the actual quirks and advantages, way beyond the dubious connection to naval history, and into outright groupthink and seeing what they want to see. 

 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,493 posts
10,847 battles

moskva is still better, petro has negative h.e dpm so once your target starts angling to your AP petro is relatively useless.

 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
480
[CLUMP]
Members
837 posts
1,171 battles
1 hour ago, JimmyTheRealPirate said:

Why is it that any time I see someone say the Petro is OP they either forget the downsides, or completely underplay them? I'm not saying the petro is weak or doesn't have some insane strengths, but it has plenty of downsides to offset them.

Petro also has:

1. A large citadel. Not mino level of cit, but well above the water line.

2. Huge turning circle, like 990 meters. I have all the current t10 silver BBs, and the only ones with a larger circle is Krem and GKF. Actually, the Yammy only has a 900m turning circle now.

3.  Battleship levels of turret rotation. Even with 360 degree turning guns, that is a long time. I mean, how is the Krem having cruiser levels of turret rotation considered strong, but petro having BB levels of turret rotation not even mentioned as a weakness?

4. 9 rifles on a 13 second reload. Compared to DMs 9 rifles on a 5.5 second reload, that is over twice as many shells.

5. Bad HE dps. DPS so bad its almost not worth even having on the ship, the only benefit to the HE is that you can pinpoint hit DDs or parts of BBs if they are close enough.

6. The radar, although 12KM and longer range than the concealment, last only 15 seconds without buffs. If you immediately shoot after using it, you will get in one more salvo, that's it. If you take more than a few seconds to aim (which is likely considering the turret turn time), you will get only one shot.

 

Heck, even your teammates will only get 9 seconds to shoot before your radar runs out. The hindy, one of the fastest shooting CAs will barely get in two salvos before the radar is over.

All cons negate by Russian rng especially if it's been shot at by german class ship :Smile_teethhappy:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10,642
[WOLF3]
Members
27,081 posts
23,857 battles

Moskva is the better ship, IMO.

 

Both Moskva and Petropavlovsk have a 50mm icebreaker bow, but the big difference is the former's is very high, to the point I joke that it's like a d*mn turtleneck.  Couple that with the 50mm deck behind the bow, there's little that AP can strike to Overmatch the actually smaller 25mm portion of the bow.  Petropavlovsk's is lower and leaves more of that 25mm bow to get unluckily Overmatched.

 

Moskva's accuracy is good at all ranges, unlike Petro's which starts faltering with more distance.

 

Moskva's AP is still great, still one of the best in Cruiser AP in Tier X, though Petro's eclipses that now.  But I remind you again that Moskva is accurate at all ranges while Petro isn't.  In addition, Petro's HE is quite worse than Moskva's.

Moskva 220mm 3x3

10.35 seconds base reload, 9.11 seconds with MBM3 equipped.

3100 HE dmg

17% fire chance

Petropavlovsk 220mm 3x3

13 seconds base reload, 11.44 seconds with MBM3 equipped.

3050 HE dmg

14% fire chance

 

The faster reload, true Cruiser accuracy at all ranges, and universally good shell selection make her more dangerous offensively.  She's quite adept at burning you down at long range and the AP is still enough to make people worry.

 

The Radar on Petro is also stupidly short in duration, 15 seconds, while Moskva's same 12km Radar has 30 seconds.  Both Radar consumables reload at the same speed and have the same amount of charges.

 

Lastly, Moskva has a lot more HP than Petro.  65.4k vs 55.8k HP.

 

The two things Petro does have a good advantage on outside AP, is concealment and the 360 degree turret.  Stock concealment it's 14.45km while Moskva's is markedly worse at 17.46km.

======

So, what do we have?  Moskva is:

Better armored.

More HP.

Accurate even at long range.

Shells good for all given situations.

Reloads faster.

Has better Radar.

 

While Petropvavosk's advantages:

Superior AP.

Stealthier.

The 360 degree turret makes gun handling easier.

 

I'm not saying Petropavlovsk is weak, far from it, she demands respect.  But as an opposing ship, Moskva is more dangerous both defensively and offensively.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
504
[BOTO]
Members
1,262 posts
15,451 battles
34 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Moskva is the better ship, IMO.

 

Both Moskva and Petropavlovsk have a 50mm icebreaker bow, but the big difference is the former's is very high, to the point I joke that it's like a d*mn turtleneck.  Couple that with the 50mm deck behind the bow, there's little that AP can strike to Overmatch the actually smaller 25mm portion of the bow.  Petropavlovsk's is lower and leaves more of that 25mm bow to get unluckily Overmatched.

 

Moskva's accuracy is good at all ranges, unlike Petro's which starts faltering with more distance.

 

Moskva's AP is still great, still one of the best in Cruiser AP in Tier X, though Petro's eclipses that now.  But I remind you again that Moskva is accurate at all ranges while Petro isn't.  In addition, Petro's HE is quite worse than Moskva's.

Moskva 220mm 3x3

10.35 seconds base reload, 9.11 seconds with MBM3 equipped.

3100 HE dmg

17% fire chance

Petropavlovsk 220mm 3x3

13 seconds base reload, 11.44 seconds with MBM3 equipped.

3050 HE dmg

14% fire chance

 

The faster reload, true Cruiser accuracy at all ranges, and universally good shell selection make her more dangerous offensively.  She's quite adept at burning you down at long range and the AP is still enough to make people worry.

 

The Radar on Petro is also stupidly short in duration, 15 seconds, while Moskva's same 12km Radar has 30 seconds.  Both Radar consumables reload at the same speed and have the same amount of charges.

 

Lastly, Moskva has a lot more HP than Petro.  65.4k vs 55.8k HP.

 

The two things Petro does have a good advantage on outside AP, is concealment and the 360 degree turret.  Stock concealment it's 14.45km while Moskva's is markedly worse at 17.46km.

======

So, what do we have?  Moskva is:

Better armored.

More HP.

Accurate even at long range.

Shells good for all given situations.

Reloads faster.

Has better Radar.

 

While Petropvavosk's advantages:

Superior AP.

Stealthier.

The 360 degree turret makes gun handling easier.

 

I'm not saying Petropavlovsk is weak, far from it, she demands respect.  But as an opposing ship, Moskva is more dangerous both defensively and offensively.

 

How do you figure Moskva is better protected?  Her citadel is much more exposed above the waterline and the most exposed part is only 155mm, wheres Petro has anwhere from 220mm (under the superstructure) to 300mm (under the turrets).  Plus Petro has even lower freeboard than Moskva making her more difficult to even hit.

Yes, outside of mid-range Moskva should have no problem winning a bow-on engagement with a Petro.

I'll agree with your assessment in general with the exception of:

1. I feel the Petro has the superior armor of the two.

2.  The radar is a bit of a wash, Moskva having longer duration but nowhere close to being able to steal radar (2.6km difference I think?) whereas Petro has shorter duration but can stealth radar.  Maybe a slight edge to Moskva given whatever circumstances pop up in game and it's more team-friendly. 

The clear balancing factor is the mediocre long-range dispersion.  It's why I prefer Bagration over Tallinn, as Bagration has the older, tighter dispersion model.

Just to be clear, I thought the title of my OP was clearly meant to be bait.......which is why my very first statement was "Petropavlovsk just may be a bit overpowered."  The key words being "may be"  and "a bit". I guess I was a bit more opaque than I intended. :Smile_trollface:

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,183
[LEGIO]
Members
3,447 posts
7,711 battles

Didn't WG give those 220mm/65 caliber guns better penetration at range than the 280mm/54.5 caliber guns of Scharnhorst? Even with post-war shell design that sounds like complete fantasy.

Supposedly they like to base penetration numbers on realistic estimates but that one seems doubtful.

 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
549
[UN1]
Members
1,218 posts
3,659 battles
10 hours ago, Tigermaus said:

It's a less powerful Stalingrad. 

It's a Stalingr.

Stalingrrrrrr!

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
385
[META_]
[META_]
Members
1,295 posts
10 hours ago, Aaron_S_Merrill said:

Petropavlovsk just may be a bit overpowered.  360 degree turrets?   Railguns with AP pen comparable to battleship pen?  Stealth radar?  Great armor scheme?  

A cruiser that can citadel battleships out over 15km away just might have a bit too much pen.  Her only shortcomings are crappy dispersion beyond 13km or so and her huge turning circle.  Oh, her HE isn't that great but you're pretty much going to stick with AP against all but the most angled targets.

One of the few ships I've ever gotten that definitely lives up to the hype.

I faced up a team with 3 of them.

A good player can really makes difference, average not.

10 hours ago, irish8644 said:

shh, They will Nerf  it.

of course they will, if stats goes up too much they will.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
793
[SHOOT]
[SHOOT]
Beta Testers
3,755 posts
11,770 battles
8 hours ago, JimmyTheRealPirate said:

6. The radar, although 12KM and longer range than the concealment, last only 15 seconds without buffs. If you immediately shoot after using it, you will get in one more salvo, that's it. If you take more than a few seconds to aim (which is likely considering the turret turn time), you will get only one shot.

Sounds like an rpf dependent ship.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×